Author Topic: Item Request Discussion Thread v2  (Read 33854 times)

MAB77

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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #150 on: December 29, 2019, 08:34:32 AM »
Hi Nem, a few personal comments on your proposals.

On a general level, I advise not to reference the Forgotten Realms setting anymore on item descriptions. We have an over abundance of those on the server. This is a Ravenloft server and it would be preferable to focus directly on fleshing out the lore of the Demiplane of Dread instead. That is not to say there is no place for items from other settings, but in those cases I'd focus on items that have a distinctive sinister vibe about them, or that are filling a specific purpose.


Cloak Of Charisma
Greater Cloak of Charisma

We already have our fair share of items that casts Eagle Splendor making this aspect redundant. As for the greater cloak, spells that are unique to a particular class are best not included in items. It takes away from the uniqueness of the class, and decreases the need to team up with others to benefit from it.

Cloak of Protection
Greater Cloak of Protection

I think you made a mistake here. Your Cloak of Protection is more powerful than your Greater Cloak of Protection. +1 universal save without any downside is too powerful. I'd actually divide those in three different cloaks, each granting +1 on one of the saving throw types, but at the cost of a small damage vulnerability to either slashing, piercing or bludgeoning. That way they are both beneficial and slightly risky to use at the same time.

Lords Cloak

That's 2 significant skill increases and a saving throw bonus without any downsides. Maybe if it was just a +1 bonus to either skills, but even then we already have the Blessed Knightly Cloak that grants a +1 will bonus.

Soldiers Cloak

I suggest to pattern this one along the lines of the Knightly Cloak and Blessed Knightly Cloak. Cold Resist 5/- (as staying warm really is what lowly soldiers would use a cloak for), +1 Discipline on the Soldier's Cloak itself, and the greater version being Cold Resist 5/-, Saving throw bonus +1 Fortitude, +1 Discipline.

Cloak of Eyes

While I have nothing against the item itself, I question if it would ever be worn aside from the very brief and occasional times where there is an attempt to locate a hidden door or when it is briefly swapped to cast the spell. You might as well just come up with a consummable item to cast the spell.

Broken Heart of Innocence
Heart of Innocence
Purest Heart of Innocence

Let us not start the spell slot items debate again, but it just won't happen under my watch. Spell slots items only reinforce characters that are already advantaged with their spellcasting abilities. If others devs wants to add them, fine, but it won't be me. Balance wise it is best to have items that cast spells using spellcharges. You can have more characters use the item that way.

Duelist Belt
Master Duellist Belt

I'd add a third belt. With the first one being Discipline +1, Parry +1, with the higher versions getting downsides increasing with the items power.

Tunnel Ranger Belt

Granting the benefit of a feat through an item is especially powerful. It needs to be counterbalanced with something equally harmful to the user. Furthermore, dwarves have darkvision by default, it is not a property they'd need to imbue in a magical item.

Belt of the Balance

An alignment restriction to true neutral and neutral good characters seems in order here.

Defender of Purity

Redundant with the Guardian shield

Shield of the Raptor

That seems fine to me, but +1 AC is the property of steel. That should be the material it is made of.


Mark of the Hawk
Razors Edge
Sterkt Hjerte
Shard of Niflheim

Those are fine as is. Not sure they would see much use compared to other items available.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 08:39:04 AM by MAB77 »
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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #151 on: December 29, 2019, 09:14:19 AM »
The Cloak of Charisma argument makes sense, I suppose.  I think you missed with the cloaks of protection that both have +1 universal saves.  It should be noted with all cloaks that I did not add cold resistance because it adds a staggering amount to the item cost in the haks now (several thousand gold to base cost), that boost them up with the other properties into the 1% tables.  I've not seen a Blessed Knightly Cloak even being sold in a very, very long time, possibly because of this.

That said, giving them a damage vulnerability makes them immediately trash.  They're not worth putting in at that point, especially not for the characters they're intended for, which will be frontliners - most of these cloaks are intended for such, as short of the 1% cloaks, absolutely nothing is worth taking for them if they happen to use a shield, aside from a winter cloak.  Either redundancy or maluses rule it out.

I find the slot item debate a touch on the nose when Ranger was given several not that long ago, unless I'm wrong.  Either way, they still exist.  It was the only reason I suggested these items, truth be told - paladin is the only class that has a single spell slot item.  Much more powerful classes (and 1 vs 1 a ranger is vastly more powerful) get several.

With the belts, maluses are almost certain to make them useless.  Most malus items are nothing more than vendor trash with a few exceptions.  Players want useful items, and in most cases a malus (especially of the harm level you are proposing) add them to the pile of equipment (any stat dropping item comes to mind) that is nothing more than vendor junk, rendered pointless otherwise.  In particular, at the moment in belts the only worthwhile go-to belts are the /5 slashing, piercing and bludgeoning belts, swapped out as needed.  Nothing else holds any particular worth except situationally.  To change that, the belts need to be offering something equally worthwhile, while not being better.

Need to fix that material of that one shield.  The other one, marked as redundant - correct me if I'm wrong but the guardian shield isn't versus evil enemies.  I was under the impression it was against a different alignment, but perhaps I am misremembering.


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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #152 on: December 29, 2019, 12:43:56 PM »

I find the slot item debate a touch on the nose when Ranger was given several not that long ago, unless I'm wrong.  Either way, they still exist.  It was the only reason I suggested these items, truth be told - paladin is the only class that has a single spell slot item.  Much more powerful classes (and 1 vs 1 a ranger is vastly more powerful) get several.


Agree with this part. Rangers have received the bow and the armours not too long ago. Prior to that they received the huntas amulet, in order for them to have an extra blade thirst. (Allthough since then the rangers have gotten a lot of extra spells, which sadly have actually reduced them to a single path. They became another best to get pure dex based...due to bane bow being this OP. By level 16 they easily can get their ab up to a minimum of +30 with this not to mention their damage output vs FE.)
The armour and the bow both give a level 2 spell slot.(The lesser armour) This is where most of the good spells lie for a ranger, allthough the armour enforces dex play. Any versatile ranger is actually worse off than before.(not to mention str ranger etc.)
The higher tier armour, which grants a level 4 spell slot, is just a plain gamechanger. It is so rare, that actually it is barely sold and it is mostly given out to friends(triggering massive ooc trading and metagaming, but this is just my personal oppinion and experience thus the brackets).

So i would agree that there is nothing wrong for the paladins to receive extra spells, especially if you consider that they are usually travelling with others, and therefore their buffing capabilities could be put to a better use this way. The only reason i would agree against the three necklaces is that they all consume the same slot. Therefore you can have all three items yet only use one. So some items that take up different slots are better.


With the belts, maluses are almost certain to make them useless.  Most malus items are nothing more than vendor trash with a few exceptions.  Players want useful items, and in most cases a malus (especially of the harm level you are proposing) add them to the pile of equipment (any stat dropping item comes to mind) that is nothing more than vendor junk, rendered pointless otherwise.  In particular, at the moment in belts the only worthwhile go-to belts are the /5 slashing, piercing and bludgeoning belts, swapped out as needed.  Nothing else holds any particular worth except situationally.  To change that, the belts need to be offering something equally worthwhile, while not being better.


Actually the save belts are still a nice addition. vs death, vs spells, vs disease....(belt of stability, moral fortitude). And of course for sneakers the sneaking belts.
But what you say is mostly true, however i would still agree with Mab, that the Tunneler belt with two feats is just plain too much.
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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #153 on: January 06, 2020, 08:21:34 PM »
This thread is for item requests only.

Discussion is supposed to go here: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=44497.msg639175#msg639175

As per moderator Iridni's request I've decided to also upvote all of Philos' items here.

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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #154 on: January 06, 2020, 08:26:28 PM »
This thread is for item requests only.

Discussion is supposed to go here: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=44497.msg639175#msg639175

As per moderator Iridni's request I've decided to also upvote all of Philos' items here.

Liked, commented, subscribed.

+1

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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #155 on: January 06, 2020, 08:38:02 PM »
This thread is for item requests only.

Discussion is supposed to go here: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=44497.msg639175#msg639175

As per moderator Iridni's request I've decided to also upvote all of Philos' items here.

Liked, commented, subscribed.

+1

+2. Thank you Mod Ren.

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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #156 on: January 06, 2020, 09:44:21 PM »
I've removed the replies in the original topic. Iridni is right, discussion should take place here.

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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #157 on: January 06, 2020, 11:28:42 PM »
As mentioned before i'm not a fan of the silenced pistol or having one handed items with move silently on them. There's already a huge imbalance there against listen items. The rest look great.

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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #158 on: January 07, 2020, 01:21:47 AM »
As far as stealth one-handers go it's almost strictly worse than a regular Shadow Strike. I like the suggestions, particularly for muskets (which we have very little variety of currently), and the suggested pistols could help fit a variety of archetypes that might find such things in their hands.
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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #159 on: January 07, 2020, 03:49:41 AM »
Silenced guns sounds good, I know how short the duration is and there was one time running darklings that one of our party members fired a gunshot and we assume it made all the darklings in the entire forest come to hunt us. If silence prevents that if that's an actual mechanic, that would be a nice quirk to apply.
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FunkyMonkey

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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #160 on: January 08, 2020, 04:24:50 AM »
Can anyone tell me where I can make item templates? Using steam, so I can't use Nwn tools as far as I see..

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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #161 on: January 08, 2020, 06:12:40 AM »
You should be able to use the toolset through steam



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MAB77

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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #162 on: January 08, 2020, 06:18:38 AM »
Can anyone tell me where I can make item templates? Using steam, so I can't use Nwn tools as far as I see..

Not sure if it applies to you, but some of us had issues with using the Toolset crashing if the computer uses an Nvidia graphic card. The solution is to access the Nvidia Control Panel and turn off Threaded Optimization under Manage 3D Settings.
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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #163 on: March 02, 2020, 02:24:39 PM »
Quote
Item name: Tyrant's Bane

Item type:Rapier

Description:
"Upon you, the Tyrant king, I shall reveal my rapier, the Tyrant's Bane. Let my steel burn your tyranny from this world, in to the Nine hells!"
-Unknown

First of these rapiers was created by a freedom fighter who fought against a tyrannical king, however due to time and historical records being lost, no one actually knows the name of either, nor the place where the fighter lived.

Statistics:
Damage Bonus: Piercing 2 Damage
Damage Bonus vs. Alignment Group: Evil 1d4 Damage Divine
Damage Bonus vs. Alignment Group: Lawful 1d4 Damage Fire
Damage Bonus vs. Specific Alignment: Lawful Evil 2d4 Damage Divine
Damage Bonus vs. Specific Alignment: Lawful Evil 2d4 Damage Fire
Damage Vulnerability: Piercing 25% Damage Vulnerability
Decreased Attack Modifier -2
Decreased Saving Throws: Divine -6
Decreased Saving Throws: Fire -6
Decreased Saving Throws: Negative Energy -6
Decreased Saving Throws: Specific: Reflex -2
Enhancement Bonus +2
Material Brass
Material Steel
Use Limitation: Alignment Group: Chaotic
Use Limitation: Class: Bard
Use Limitation: Class: Cleric
Use Limitation: Class: Rogue
Use Limitation: Class: Wizard
Visual Effect:  Holy / Radiant

Appearance:
Top: 11 color 1
Middle: 17 color 3
Bottom: 4 color 2

Total cost: 4644

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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #164 on: March 02, 2020, 02:25:36 PM »
All of them Pav

In all seriousness though, I just wanted to make something thematic
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 02:29:26 PM by GirlyCat9001 »
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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #165 on: March 02, 2020, 03:11:33 PM »
So, there's a lot of stuff going on with the Tyrant's Bane. 17 lines of stats.

Against its "intended" target, this sword does 6d4 bonus damage. Decreased Attack Modifier is completely nullified by the Enhancement Bonus, which also overrides the +2 Piercing Damage because this is a rapier. The penalties are pretty harsh, but because this is a weapon you wouldn't be "commonly carrying", also very niche.

The usage restrictions puzzle me. Chaotic makes sense - although I'd expect it to be Chaotic Good, considering its extreme opposition to Lawful Evil. The classes... I don't see why only these classes oppose tyrants, or indeed what unifies them in regards to such a weapon.

For comparison, there's another rapier that targets any evil - it comes with +1 AB and 1d4 fire damage vs Evil, to my recollection. In exchange for a more narrow target range and the penalties, you're dramatically bumping up the damage. Like, a lot. This thing will crit harder than a scythe and more often, against the type of enemy you'd use it against.

In summary, I can't help but feel like there's way too much going on here - and a lot of it too powerful, even despite how niche it is.
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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #166 on: March 02, 2020, 03:38:45 PM »
I think it's really interesting. Definitely a lot going on but a cool weapon. Those penalties are nothing to sneeze at. People who use rapiers would hate to have their reflex and divine/negative saving throws gutted in particular. But I guess they're probably not a big deal in the long run, as this weapon is extremely useful against a large number of enemies in the module, many of which do not use abilities that target those saves.
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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #167 on: March 02, 2020, 04:04:56 PM »
The usage restrictions puzzle me. Chaotic makes sense - although I'd expect it to be Chaotic Good, considering its extreme opposition to Lawful Evil. The classes... I don't see why only these classes oppose tyrants, or indeed what unifies them in regards to such a weapon.

I'm not familiar with the toolset. Do these restrictions help lower the item's value to get it below the cap?

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MAB77

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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #168 on: March 02, 2020, 04:37:19 PM »
Yes. But it's unlikely we'd add a weapon that'd deal this much damage bonus against an alignment. That'd be overpowered in a lot of pvp fights.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 04:40:24 PM by MAB77 »
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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #169 on: March 02, 2020, 07:08:36 PM »
The idea of having a weapon that does a little bit of damage to Lawful and a bit of damage to Evil is nice, but all those dice stacked up is just way OP, yeah.
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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #170 on: April 15, 2020, 07:38:38 AM »
Since the last one I posted was pure overkill, I think this one is much better in terms of Balance.
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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #171 on: April 15, 2020, 07:54:40 AM »
Since the last one I posted was pure overkill, I think this one is much better in terms of Balance.

I'm afraid that it isn't.  That's a staggeringly powerful weapon.

The trick with making these items is that you can only go so far with using negatives to balance it out.  Strictly mathematically speaking it sort of works, but its a lot.  Keen, with 1d8+2d6 damage, even with all those vulnerabilities is a lot.  Its got vulnerabilities, but that *many* abilities elevates this into the tier of artifact items, negatives or not.

If you take a look at the items that have gotten in (there are a few in the thread) they tend to be much more modest about their abilities.  In truth, there are folks who think even those are far too much.


EDIT - Also worth noting this weapon, maluses or no, is more powerful than a crafted then enchanted longsword by a *considerable* amount with its bonuses.  Thats going to be difficult to get around.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 08:39:24 AM by Nemesis 24 »

Philos

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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #172 on: April 16, 2020, 02:41:27 AM »
Item stats for easy reference
Spoiler: show
Item name: Blade of Dark and Light

Item type: Longsword

Description:
"Light and Dark, Good and Evil, all of it is a balance, disrupt the balance in one place, and it swing in the other direction somewhere else."
-Unknown

These well made, decorated and rare blades are said originate in ancient times, wielded by a pair of brothers in legends. According to the legends, the brothers were bitter rivals, and eventually killed one another.

Though whether the legend that is true or not is a complete mystery, as no historical records survive of such an event, nor is there any indication of what were the names of the brothers.

One thing is for certain though, these rare blades are sought after by many a warrior for their power and are quite desirable as a result. They are made of Darksteel, Decorate with Brass and a Sapphire decorates the length of the blade.

Statistics:
Base Item Weight Reduction 60% of Weight
Damage Bonus: Divine 1d6 Damage
Damage Bonus: Negative Energy 1d6 Damage
Damage Vulnerability: Divine 60% Damage Vulnerability
Damage Vulnerability: Negative Energy 60% Damage Vulnerability
Decreased Saving Throws: Divine -6
Decreased Saving Throws: Negative Energy -6
Decreased Skill Modifier: Antagonize -6
Decreased Skill Modifier: Discipline -6
Decreased Skill Modifier: Listen -6
Enhancement Bonus +1
Keen
Material Brass
Material Darksteel
Material Gem, Sapphire
Quality Masterwork

Appearance:
Top: 18 Color 3
Middle: 11 Color 2
Bottom: 14 Color 2

Total cost: 3916



A suggestion if I may- You've got a lot of stats on a single item and in your story there are two brothers. In my mind seye I imagine their rivalry didn't start so bloody, but rather, slowly boiled over through their many years. (You tell me though, it's your story) Why not split some of the stats into one brothers sword and other stats in the opposite siblings. Or show how their rivalry developed into an arms races with a series of blades? Was one pious and yet prone to being goaded? What stats might best represent this? Was one jealous of another success which grew to a bitter resentment? Use the stats to reinforce their character traits and flaws. I don't want to tell you how your story is supposed to go but I'd focus on clearly defining the each brothers character.

I'll provide a few mechanical notes as well. Try to take into account what's currently in the loot tables so your additions fill some niche. I realize it can be hard to know ALL of the loot tables items without a peek behind the scenes but speaking from personal experience I've seen several long swords with divine damage on them yet only one with negative energy. Don't compromise your story for the sake of stats but take some time to consider how your item will be unique from those similar to it.

Lastly, these stats:

Damage Bonus: Divine 1d6 Damage
Damage Bonus: Negative Energy 1d6 Damage
Decreased Skill Modifier: Listen -6
Enhancement Bonus +1
Keen

Most looted long swords come with a d4 damage increase. (Astral Blade, Vijya, leviathan)  A d6 isn't unheard of but 2d6- is especially with harder to resist damage types. I'd consider splitting up their damage types (read up) and/or toning down their dice value.

The listen penalty feels superfluous. Its uses cases and when you're gonna be detecting don't really line up. In short, most people will just unequip it when trying to detect so it's unlikely this would be a relevant penalty. If the idea was to convey a communication break down consider a CHA or Will penalty instead.

Keen and EB +1. Keen on weapons can be deceptively powerful. As Nem mentioned even if the values add up it completely eliminates the need for one of the main stays of caster classes. As for EB + 1 its just more damage on top of the pile and pierces common DR. Attack bonus increases are fairly strong in NWN due to this.                                                             
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 12:08:20 PM by Philos »

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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #173 on: April 16, 2020, 01:14:08 PM »
Damage Bonus: Divine 1d6 Damage
Damage Bonus: Negative Energy 1d6 Damage
Decreased Skill Modifier: Listen -6
Enhancement Bonus +1
Keen

Agreed, this weapon is way too powerful. First of all it should drop the enhancement bonus, and probably also scale down the damage bonus to 1d4. And of course no keen.
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Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #174 on: April 16, 2020, 02:12:38 PM »
Slings
I like slings, but there are not a lot of options to choose from. Here are some ideas for new slings:

1.
Quote
Daybreak
Description: A seemingly ceremonial sling adorned with intricate gold finery. A rising sun is emblazoned on the inside of it's leather pocket. This insignia is warm to the touch.

Stats:
-2 enhancement bonus
+2 attack bonus vs undead
+1d4 fire damage.

2.
Quote
Giant's Sling
Description: These hefty slings originate from beyond the mists, in the outlander world of Toril. They are crafted by the giant clans of the spine of the world, where they are sturdy enough to sling large rocks and even boulders at unwary travellers. Such slings can be used to hurl smaller payloads with great force, but they are quite unwieldly.

Stats:
+4 Mighty
-2 Dexterity
(If possible, 200% carry weight).

3.
Quote
Rubber Sling
Description: This sling was made using modern alchemy, and the natural rubber of the Hevea brasiliensis tree. It can sling bullets at high enough speeds, to penetrate its targets.

Stats:
+1d2 Piercing damage.

4.
Quote
Iron Rain
Description: This confusing looking sling was engineered with a small relay that allows ammunition to be quickly replaced after each shot. The craftmanship is excellent, though there is no clear indication of where it came from.

Stats:
+1 Attack bonus
Bonus Feat: Rapid Shot
« Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 10:00:37 AM by tylernwn »
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