Item Request Discussion Thread v2

[Revenant]

Item Name: Lesser Ring of the Red Warmage

Spoiler: show

Type: Ring
Appearance: iit_ring_130

Description: In the Red Academy of Hazlan, these rings were distributed by the Zulkir of Evocation themself to select apprentices who showed promises as evokers.  These apprentices were among the first warmages instituted under Lord Hazlik's Red Academy and were given these rings to push their capabilities at great peril to themselves.  It is no surprise that these rings would often be found on their corpses, charred by their own spells.

Statistics:
Bonus Feat: Automatic Quicken Spell I
Damage Vulnerability: Fire 10% Damage Vulnerability
Decreased Saving Throws: Specific: Reflex -1
Material Darksteel
Material Gem, Aquamarine
Use Limitation: Class: Warmage

Cost: 962

Item Name: Greater Ring of the Red Warmage

Spoiler: show

Type: Ring
Appearance: iit_ring_174

Description: Dissatisfied with the previous experiment of the Zulkir of Evocation, Lord Hazlik specifically tasked his the Department of Evocation with a simple task: an artifact which made the sect of warmages independent of his other red wizards' aide.  The result were these rings, prized for their ability to put down Rashemi insurrections with mechanical efficiency.  Though, the volatility of such artifacts made their wielders far more vulnerable to their own magic.

Within the military sciences department in Ramulai's Red Academy, it is said that those who wear these rings are cursed to die by their own magic within a year of putting it on.

Statistics:
Bonus Feat: Automatic Quicken Spell I
Bonus Feat: Automatic Quicken Spell II
Damage Vulnerability: Fire 25% Damage Vulnerability
Decreased Saving Throws: Specific: Reflex -2
Material Arcane Steel
Material Gem, Blue Diamond
Quality Masterwork
Use Limitation: Class: Warmage

Cost: 3848

Auto-Quicken is a pretty powerful feat to put on an item, and I think it's important to consider how much UMD one would require to use the ring. I've seen DM items with auto-quicken on them in the past, and I'm pretty sure they were always yoinked back to the safety of the void in short order.

Item Name: Ring of Constriction

Spoiler: show

Item Type: Ring

Description: Originally forged and employed by the Battleragers of Mithral Hall, the Ring of Constriction is of great use to the frenzied warrior. These magical rings detect an increased pulse in the finger of their wielders, and constrict tighter around the appendage as danger and risk loom larger. The constriction aids in the fury of these Battleragers, though it also reduces blood flow, including the flow of blood to the brain.

Statistics:
Bonus Feat: Toughness
Bonus Feat: Extra Rage
Decreased Ability Score (-2 Intelligence)
Class Limitation: Barbarian
Material: Iron

Appearance: iit_ring_012
Total Item Cost: I don’t have access to these specific bonus feats on my toolset, but I presume based on the cost adjustment of other feats that it would come in right around 8,000.

Notes: There isn’t a lot of high-end Barbarian gear on the server, at least that I have seen. This ring is intended to be similar in function, power balance, availability and cost to the Knuckle Duster used on this server by Monks. I think the Knuckle Duster is actually more powerful, but the power balance seems similar to me.

My main consideration here is that there is no drawback to this item whatsoever. -2 Int does nothing to most people who would want this ring, only lightly inconveniencing rogues UMDing it (though they'd just take it off when disabling traps). -2 Wis for save reduction, or -2 Dex for putting it in the trash AC/Reflex Reduction, or just a straight -Saves/Damage Vuln, might do better. Damage Vuln would somewhat negate the purpose of Toughness, though.

These are both pretty powerful items. I don't necessarily mind that, I'm just skeptical that it aligns with developer mindset. I'd love to see more spellslot items that actually drop (of reasonable circle, obviously - no need for extra timestops) since the entire problem with Divine casters getting early access is a thing of the past. +Saves as best in slot does not satisfy the monkey brain as much as an item that is tailored to your class in a more than token way (looking at you, rings of +1 magic missile cast).

[EO]

The Greater amulet of Thoth, a 4th and 5th level bonus spell slot already exists in the loot tables. As does the Greater Isis amulet for Sorcs. They just never show up anymore.

I'm already planning to update some of the caster items to lower their cost and thus make them drop more often.

[HopeIsTheCarrot]

The Greater amulet of Thoth, a 4th and 5th level bonus spell slot already exists in the loot tables. As does the Greater Isis amulet for Sorcs. They just never show up anymore.

I'm already planning to update some of the caster items to lower their cost and thus make them drop more often.

Awesome! Thanks EO! Are some of the rare cleric spell slot items on that list as well?

[remnar]

I want to add some items that are good for crossbows, as they seem to be an underused weapon - so much so that most people just craft arrows and not bolts.
I decided to try making up some items - for now they are just stats as I would like to get a bit of help or advice before I painstakingly wrack my brain for descriptions and names for them.
In addition, I am putting them into the Gloves slot for a reason.  There are multiple archery based items already in the glove slots (bracers of archery, gnomish commando gloves which can be used with UMD) so to use these gloves and also have the benefits of the other items in this slot would require feat-investment.  I feel like, while powerful, it would bring some use into crossbows which I imagine most people think they lack.  I think these ideas would give more use to crossbows without being essential or gamebreaking, but hopefully also not impossible to find like other useful items often are on the server.

Remember that at this stage, these are just stats, no fluff yet
Idea 1. individual gloves items for both crossbow types

Improved Critical Gloves for Light/Heavy Crossbows
bonus feat: Improved Critical (Light/Heavy)
Cost: 1001

I've had an issue with trying to include downsides (or additional upsides), as adding any maluses of a decent amount (such as skill drops of ~3) really lowers the cost to minimal amounts.

Idea 2. Improved Critical Gloves for Both
Bonus Feat: Improved Critical (Heavy Crossbow)
Bonus Feat: Improved Critical (Light Crossbow)
cost 4001

Because both feats are included (let's be real no one is going to be using both light and heavy crossbows so having multiple gloves might be superfluous) the price is increased significantly which allows for more leeway in making negatives to the gloves.
One example could be:
Bonus Feat: Improved Critical (Heavy Crossbow)
Bonus Feat: Improved Critical (Light Crossbow)
hide -4
disable trap -4
sleight of hand -4
Cost: 1278
This example would dissuade the use as a sneaky rogue weapon while being useful and low cost enough to spawn reasonably

Idea 3.
A similar idea to the first, except with Weapon Focus (Light/Heavy Crossbow).  I don't think this would work as a combined item like idea 2, due to cost and general use, but I am still unsure as to what other additions to the item would be needed to 'balance' it.


So, anyway, thanks in advance for any help.  I'm sure there is probably a reason why this kind of thing was never added but ehhh its probably been years since something like this was suggested anyway.

[remnar]

I have acquired an amount of assistance.
First, the gloves will be split into Light and Heavy variants for all types, so the items would be as follows.  (again without any bonuses/negatives applied yet, I would still like help on this)  By having these items on the glove slots it would require you to spend feats on the other feats that have their own glove slot items (point blank shot, rapid reload, improved critical, weapon focus) so you can't be a master crossbowman without at least investing a little.

Improved Critical Gloves for Light/Heavy Crossbows
bonus feat: Improved Critical (Light/Heavy Crossbow)
Cost: 1001

Weapon Focus Gloves for Light/Heavy Crossbows
bonus feat: Weapon Focus (Light/Heavy Crossbow)
Cost: 1001


Additionally, a suggestion made was a Helmet that had Weapon Specialization.  Due to crossbows being fairly low damage even on crits, I think an extra 2 damage (in a slot that is often less used and thus would be a good pairing) won't be too out of line.  And lets be honest, no one is taking weapon spec on a fighter for crossbows either.

Weapon Specialization Helmet for Light/Heavy Crossbows
bonus feat: Weapon Specialization (Light/Heavy Crossbow)
Cost: 1003


To re-iterate, these are items designed in order to get people using crossbow.  It's a lot of feats to put into a weapon type to be moderately useful, so I think it is fair to make them items.  There is still competition for some of the essential feats (if you aren't a halfling, gnome, or UMD class you have to take the very useful rapid reload feat) so you can't be instant-master.

And again, I would like feedback on appropriate bonuses/negatives to this equipment.  I have my own ideas but I'm sure the people here might also have some good ideas and I want to have something nice to submit before I submit these items.

[MAB77]

I'm really not a fan of adding feats to items, especially weapon focus/specialization ones. Making character development choices is an important balancing aspect of the game. Feats on items need to be planed carefully, either to address a serious issue (like the apron granting martial weapons proficiency so that all players may craft) or be restricted to high value items so that they would be extremely rare loot drops. Else you only eliminate the need to ever pick said feat at level up. At such low value, those gloves would be exceedingly common. What would be the incentive of ever picking the feat when I just need to toggle an item to get it? This is clearly not the way to go IMHO.

[tylernwn]

I have acquired an amount of assistance.
First, the gloves will be split into Light and Heavy variants for all types, so the items would be as follows.  (again without any bonuses/negatives applied yet, I would still like help on this)  By having these items on the glove slots it would require you to spend feats on the other feats that have their own glove slot items (point blank shot, rapid reload, improved critical, weapon focus) so you can't be a master crossbowman without at least investing a little.

Improved Critical Gloves for Light/Heavy Crossbows
bonus feat: Improved Critical (Light/Heavy Crossbow)
Cost: 1001

Weapon Focus Gloves for Light/Heavy Crossbows
bonus feat: Weapon Focus (Light/Heavy Crossbow)
Cost: 1001


Additionally, a suggestion made was a Helmet that had Weapon Specialization.  Due to crossbows being fairly low damage even on crits, I think an extra 2 damage (in a slot that is often less used and thus would be a good pairing) won't be too out of line.  And lets be honest, no one is taking weapon spec on a fighter for crossbows either.

Weapon Specialization Helmet for Light/Heavy Crossbows
bonus feat: Weapon Specialization (Light/Heavy Crossbow)
Cost: 1003


To re-iterate, these are items designed in order to get people using crossbow.  It's a lot of feats to put into a weapon type to be moderately useful, so I think it is fair to make them items.  There is still competition for some of the essential feats (if you aren't a halfling, gnome, or UMD class you have to take the very useful rapid reload feat) so you can't be instant-master.

And again, I would like feedback on appropriate bonuses/negatives to this equipment.  I have my own ideas but I'm sure the people here might also have some good ideas and I want to have something nice to submit before I submit these items.

I agree that crossbows are very cool weapons, and that it would be nice to see people using them outside of early levels. However maybe this goal would be better achieved  with a wider variety of crossbows and bolts (for example blunt bolts?), or crossbows with a better critical threat range? Like MAB says, adding feats takes away from the classes and builds that use them. The weapon focus gloves might not be so bad since every class can take weapon focus, but the weapon specialization helmet would give a feat that only fighters get, and so might feel like it is weakening that class (unless it comes with the class requirement: fighter).

[PlatointheCave]

I'm really not a fan of adding feats to items, especially weapon focus/specialization ones. Making character development choices is an important balancing aspect of the game. Feats on items need to be planed carefully, either to address a serious issue (like the apron granting martial weapons proficiency so that all players may craft) or be restricted to high value items so that they would be extremely rare loot drops. Else you only eliminate the need to ever pick said feat at level up. At such low value, those gloves would be exceedingly common. What would be the incentive of ever picking the feat when I just need to toggle an item to get it? This is clearly not the way to go IMHO.

Placing a feat on an equipment slot that could otherwise be filled by something else isn't really that straightforward of an option. If I wear gloves to get imp crit then I'm not wearing gloves of discipline (+3 disc, notably the equivalent of SF Disc in effect) or greater spellcraft gloves on a number of classes (+6 spellcraft, effectively +1 unisaves v spells). At higher levels I'm not getting to use enchanted gloves which give me deflection AC, Disc and a unisave.

Simply put: I think you're overlooking the cost of having the gear equipped.

There is gear that can be swapped easily to be used, but gloves like this aren't it. The amulets with the extend spell feat can be worn by a wizard while they rest, unequipped, and re-equipped only when extended spells need to be cast. Or equipped at any time by a spontaneous caster. The same is true of staff of fury. Neither of which are particularly rare. They haven't broken the balance of the server and people still regularly take the feats.

Imp crit on gloves for a crossbow is fine in my opinion, even a little underpowered given that to get the real crossbow feats you already had to take WF, rapid reload and that one feat that adds your dex modifier to damage. Reducing the feat tax on crossbows for the price of a weaker glove slot is reasonable, I think.

Weapon specialization should not go on an item as it's class specific and creates an unnecessary advantage, rather than a reasonable feat tax trade.

[DaloLorn]

The amulets with the extend spell feat can be worn by a wizard while they rest, unequipped, and re-equipped only when extended spells need to be cast. Or equipped at any time by a spontaneous caster. The same is true of staff of fury.

... Wizards can do that too?

I always thought spontaneous casters derived much greater benefits from those items...

[HM01]

I'd be in favor of seeing more crossbow related items, or anything that gives them more love. Considering items like the knuckle duster exist, I don't think those gloves are far off the reservation.

[Dardonas]

I'm really not a fan of adding feats to items, especially weapon focus/specialization ones. Making character development choices is an important balancing aspect of the game. Feats on items need to be planed carefully, either to address a serious issue (like the apron granting martial weapons proficiency so that all players may craft) or be restricted to high value items so that they would be extremely rare loot drops. Else you only eliminate the need to ever pick said feat at level up. At such low value, those gloves would be exceedingly common. What would be the incentive of ever picking the feat when I just need to toggle an item to get it? This is clearly not the way to go IMHO.

Placing a feat on an equipment slot that could otherwise be filled by something else isn't really that straightforward of an option. If I wear gloves to get imp crit then I'm not wearing gloves of discipline (+3 disc, notably the equivalent of SF Disc in effect) or greater spellcraft gloves on a number of classes (+6 spellcraft, effectively +1 unisaves v spells). At higher levels I'm not getting to use enchanted gloves which give me deflection AC, Disc and a unisave.

Simply put: I think you're overlooking the cost of having the gear equipped.

There is gear that can be swapped easily to be used, but gloves like this aren't it. The amulets with the extend spell feat can be worn by a wizard while they rest, unequipped, and re-equipped only when extended spells need to be cast. Or equipped at any time by a spontaneous caster. The same is true of staff of fury. Neither of which are particularly rare. They haven't broken the balance of the server and people still regularly take the feats.

Imp crit on gloves for a crossbow is fine in my opinion, even a little underpowered given that to get the real crossbow feats you already had to take WF, rapid reload and that one feat that adds your dex modifier to damage. Reducing the feat tax on crossbows for the price of a weaker glove slot is reasonable, I think.

Weapon specialization should not go on an item as it's class specific and creates an unnecessary advantage, rather than a reasonable feat tax trade.

Agreed.  In the case of staff of fury or amulet of extension, I preferred to have the actual feat on my wizard because I could get the +2 saving throw amulet, or not have the staff as I could be disarmed.  That said, the only item I can see as a "must have" in builds is the Hector's Knuckle Duster for monks because of weapon specialization, like what's pointed out.  In the case of gloves, if you have gloves that give you weapon focus you aren't wearing enchanted gloves.  It makes crossbow users even more glass cannon than they would be.

[remnar]

Thanks everyone for the help, I do think that the glove items are a good idea.  The helmet was more of a 'maybe' item but now I can see that it does take away from fighters and is in a slot that is less used for actual useful things.

I'll be tweaking the glove items to give them some upsides and downsides, give them actual names, and descriptions.

[MAB77]

I'm not overlooking anything. I simply prefer that we reward those that make the feat investment rather than give a feat for free. If the perception is that crossbowmen need help, I would instead focus on what is lacking to bring them on par with archers  then propose items that cover the differences. Said items would be of use even to those that didn't invest in the feats, but would best serve those that did. Thus ending with an item that will be useful to a greater amount of players.

You ought to respect feats that are class restricted too. "Weapon Specialization" is a big deal to the fighter class and one of the few perks they have on all others. It should remain exclusive to them.

[Delita]

I'm not overlooking anything. I simply prefer that we reward those that make the feat investment rather than give a feat for free. If the perception is that crossbowmen need help, I would instead focus on what is lacking to bring them on par with archers  then propose items that cover the differences. Said items would be of use even to those that didn't invest in the feats, but would best serve those that did. Thus ending with an item that will be useful to a greater amount of players.

You ought to respect feats that are class restricted too. "Weapon Specialization" is a big deal to the fighter class and one of the few perks they have on all others. It should remain exclusive to them.

Is your stand extends to items that have little use like whips, shurikens, tridents and other relatively less used weapons? I don't think a gloves with "Weapon Specialization: Whip/Shuriken" would be much of a problem. After all items like these used mostly for RP/theme reasons and, for example whip, compared to crossbows their usefulness really debatable.

[EO]

Is your stand extends to items that have little use like whips, shurikens, tridents and other relatively less used weapons? I don't think a gloves with "Weapon Specialization: Whip/Shuriken" would be much of a problem. After all items like these used mostly for RP/theme reasons and, for example whip, compared to crossbows their usefulness really debatable.

I'll echo what MAB said; class-specific feats shouldn't be added to items, regardless of that item's "power" or lack thereof.

[PlatointheCave]

Weapon specialization should not go on an item as it's class specific and creates an unnecessary advantage, rather than a reasonable feat tax trade.

Weapon specialization being inappropriate to put on an item was something I actually stated.

I'm not overlooking anything. I simply prefer that we reward those that make the feat investment rather than give a feat for free. If the perception is that crossbowmen need help, I would instead focus on what is lacking to bring them on par with archers  then propose items that cover the differences. Said items would be of use even to those that didn't invest in the feats, but would best serve those that did. Thus ending with an item that will be useful to a greater amount of players.

You ought to respect feats that are class restricted too. "Weapon Specialization" is a big deal to the fighter class and one of the few perks they have on all others. It should remain exclusive to them.

The issue is a steep feat tax to achieve comparable performance from a crossbow.

You need rapid reload to make the same number of attacks per round as a bow. Additionally, bow users may take feats like https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Rapid_shot which gives them more attacks. In essence: a bow user will get a higher ceiling and lower cost to use.

Crossbows in DnD have been the option for classes that don't have combat class levels, so I don't actually think they need to be as good as bows in the first place, but it's disingenuous to pretend weapon specialization wasn't addressed here. It's also the case that it's feat imbalances specifically that weaken crossbows.

Adding gloves that allow for use of a crossbow meaningfully by classes that aren't combat types might allow them to fill a niche of ranged weapon use in classes that specialise in something else. Though, I would make that feat rapid reload, which we already have on gloves IIRC.

[EO]

New class means need for new items. Much like with Warmages, Voodan and Hexblades, we'd need your help with suggesting new Beguiler items (spell slots, skills, etc. items).

[Lion El'Jonson]

I have no great details but an item for the Beguiler should be a holdable masquerade mask that gives a spell slot(s).

[MAB77]

Item name: Ruined Book of Thoth
Item type: Fashion Accessory
Description: One of the tomes written and enchanted by the priests of the god Thoth. Something went wrong with the magic imbued in this one - rather than being able to perform the legend lore spell on items, it instead imbues the one who creaks open its blank pages with an intuitive understanding of letters and how they come together to form words and sentences.
Statistics:
Bonus Feat: Literacy
Total Cost: ?

An amusing suggestion to be sure, but if you read the recent discussion in this thread, you will know that we refrain from having class exclusive feats on items. Beside, that item would entirely eliminate the need for a player to invest in the feature.

[Praying Mantis]

Item name: "See No Evil- The Story of St. Igrayne Blath"
Item type: Book
Description: Player written story with text to paste inside, past 1024 character limit so would need to be a custom book
Statistics: n/a
Total Cost: Negotiable

J'ystn Chance has been contracted to rewrite the Hymm of Saint Igrayne Blaith as an exciting story for the church of Ezra in game.  Wondering if it's possible to have the books created as items to be handed out in game for the purpose of generating RP.  Each chapter could be a different volume, stories are custom created.

[Vissy]

The item, "Chains of the Red Warmage", carries with it an Arcane Spell Failure of 10% - and yet it is only usable by Warmages.

In other words, no warmage is ever going to use this item. The only class mix that I can see using this will be something like a rogue/cleric. The arcane spell failure should really be removed from this item, otherwise it's genuinely terrible for warmages.

[DaloLorn]

The item, "Chains of the Red Warmage", carries with it an Arcane Spell Failure of 10% - and yet it is only usable by Warmages.

In other words, no warmage is ever going to use this item. The only class mix that I can see using this will be something like a rogue/cleric. The arcane spell failure should really be removed from this item, otherwise it's genuinely terrible for warmages.

I tend to agree. With the way it's set up, the item is only viable for warmages if they meet all of the following conditions:

• No access to haste (not likely at the level you get to actually cast in heavy armor!)
• Desperately needs to auto-quicken spell levels 1-6 (when they already have a multitude of level 7-8 slots that may be more useful... at least in the contexts when quickening would seem to matter most)
• Can get away with randomly screwing a spell up once in a while (at which point they can get away with simply casting non-quickened spells!)

Meanwhile, a cleric with a UMD dip can quicken most of their spells with utter impunity. Although many of the same preconditions apply, they will be reliably quickened from the moment they get enough UMD to wear the armor.

[EO]

The item, "Chains of the Red Warmage", carries with it an Arcane Spell Failure of 10% - and yet it is only usable by Warmages.

In other words, no warmage is ever going to use this item. The only class mix that I can see using this will be something like a rogue/cleric. The arcane spell failure should really be removed from this item, otherwise it's genuinely terrible for warmages.

Strange, that's a bug actually, they shouldn't have +10 ASF.

[Dardonas]

The item, "Chains of the Red Warmage", carries with it an Arcane Spell Failure of 10% - and yet it is only usable by Warmages.

In other words, no warmage is ever going to use this item. The only class mix that I can see using this will be something like a rogue/cleric. The arcane spell failure should really be removed from this item, otherwise it's genuinely terrible for warmages.

Strange, that's a bug actually, they shouldn't have +10 ASF.

The armor is also set to be splint mail, I believe.  I wasn't sure if that was a choice made by the team or if it was something overlooked.  As splint mail, most warmages won't be able to use it until level 16 due to it being heavy armor.  If it is intended, ignore this but I figured if we're looking at the item I'd bring it up.

[Vissy]

The item, "Chains of the Red Warmage", carries with it an Arcane Spell Failure of 10% - and yet it is only usable by Warmages.

In other words, no warmage is ever going to use this item. The only class mix that I can see using this will be something like a rogue/cleric. The arcane spell failure should really be removed from this item, otherwise it's genuinely terrible for warmages.

Strange, that's a bug actually, they shouldn't have +10 ASF.

The armor is also set to be splint mail, I believe.  I wasn't sure if that was a choice made by the team or if it was something overlooked.  As splint mail, most warmages won't be able to use it until level 16 due to it being heavy armor.  If it is intended, ignore this but I figured if we're looking at the item I'd bring it up.

+1 to this. Is it intended to be a heavy armor, or is it meant to be a medium armor?