You have been taken by the Mists

Author Topic: Item Request Discussion Thread v2  (Read 27249 times)

BraveSirRobin

  • Professional Blue-Coat
  • Gendarmerie
  • Dark Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 922
  • "One's own thoughts are his only prison"
Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #150 on: December 01, 2019, 12:52:36 AM »
I am in firm agreement that the spellslot items are somewhat useless as a malus against a Paladin. After playing one up to level 19, I can say with relative ease that a Paladin doesn't really need spellslot items late game, because they can cast everything they need. So for most end-game or high level Paladins, it doesn't matter. It only matters to the enterprising Paladin who is trying to level up in PvE, and this amulet would only be worn before he rested to get his spells up, then changed out for an Amulet of Ra, and his Gauntlet of the Fallen Paladin would be switched out for say, crafted bracers or the like.


The phase of getting past your low-levels where those are most important is only a couple of months, and anyone who wants to dip out and avoid antagonistic RP during that time usually can with relative ease, so long as they keep their nose in their dungeon runs. That also being said, everyone is absolutely correct that it when a player is hostiled, they could just swap out their spell amulet for an Amulet of Ra or the like without any notice or issue. It creates a very narrow window of opportunity for an action that:


A) Is optionally roleplayed
B) Is imperceptible, because we can't see what kind of gear they're wearing
C) Still not going to help Assassins so much against Paladins in Full-Plate Armor w/ Improved Expertise up and their shield out, because that's a whole bunch of standing ac that isn't going away under almost any circumstances. Said amulet can be removed as a free action at any given point under the most optimal of conditions, and anyone who is nervous that they're going to be engaged in potentially antagonistic roleplay and/or that someone *might* try to kill them, will probably not be wearing this amulet.


So in reality, it only adds to the micromanagement of gear items, in the most practical sense except for maybe inexperienced, new players to PoTM. It isn't anything but a buff in PvE, and in PvP, it doesn't really matter because you don't really need the slots to be effective.


Ercvadasz

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1108
Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #151 on: December 29, 2019, 12:09:46 AM »
Bumping this, for consideration for the next update.

Cloak of charisma: Would say, it is just another junk item for the loot table to get instead of normal loot. Since charisma potions are many, scrolls are also available. But since we got the waraji and a few such other items, it can fit.

Cloak of protection: There are already a large number of universal save items, but i am guessing for some folks the cloak is where it is supposed to be:P (Especially with the knightly cloak becoming quite a rare drop.)

Greater loak of Charisma: I would say this needs some rebalancing. The use of it is quite limited, it destroys upon using up the charges and basicly it is mostly good for paladins, blackguards, maybe sorcerers. (I think the influence bonus and the malus need a bit of rebalance)

Greater cloak of protection: seems like again an item that is supposedly just switch out an existing item slot for a less used one.

Lord's cloak: The once common knightly cloaks updated version. I actually find it legit, though probably could use a better name! (templars cloak maybe? or something similar, to make its connection to the knightly cloak or something, but perhaps that is just me!)

Soldier's cloak: Common item. Nothing really to add, either added or not I doubt it makes much of a difference.

Cloak of Eyes: I find this intriguing, for some reason with its name i find it offering less than I expect. However maybe a "better" version can also be made. Only the light effect seems to be a bit on the low side i would say.

Amulets of Heart: Dunno, why you added all these maluses. The rangers have the armour, the huntas amulet and the caliban bracers. (Rangers armour both lesser and greater.) Beside the caliban bracers none of them offers any malus. So I would say the maluses are not really required, perhaps beside for the third tier one, but even there it would need some lessening. As this way just like with most ranger items they would just become....switch out items.(And even without the maluses they most likely will.)

Duelist belte: I think you switched the skills on the master duelists belt, is it not supposed to be 5 discipline and parrry 4?(considering the normal duellist belt)

Mark of the Hawk: Seems a nice enough item, but something seems amiss. Maybe a +1 to will save? To make it consistent with the Talon bracers?

Tunnel ranger belt:
Darkvision seems dunno, shouldn't tunnel dwellers already have something similar? also two feats seems a bit too much. Maybe a bit of tweaking adding something else? (Like discipline?)

Defender of Purity:
Seems very similar to the guardian shield.

Shield of the Raptor: Seems completely not worth it. As in would just be another placeholder item in the loot table. The maluses are too much, the bonuses are not worth it considering that even crafted shields are better.(allthough the will save on a shield is rare)

Razors Edge: Same argument as Raptor shield, just with parry. Also only really useable for shield parry guys. Who are not that many. (And even then it really is not that needed)

Sterkt Hjerte: Seems an updated and better version of the Four moon. Nothing pro nothing against. Seems a regular non common fitting item. Not too powerful, and surprassing its crafted verions.(Mostly)

Shards of Nilfheim: Well...this one dunno, seems to be a rare item, and for what it is worth, it offers basicly nothing.
The cold resistance is really not worth it. The AC vs slashing can be gained from other sources. Would say that the current version would make it into useless, and only again a placeholder and another junk item to sell, but for decent gold. Nothing much else. Would tweak this to make it actually have a use in some cases.(Maybe up the cold resistance?)

Nice thoughts, and sorry if my words may come up a bit harsh, but as i see many of these items are either too punishing to employ, or outright not worth it if you compare them with either their crafted versions or already existing items. They would just become like the once completely mass found and mass sold Istavan the Sage's book.(When it had the -2 intelligence!, completely useless)
The ones though that show promise, i would say you deliberatly downplayed on the bonus part. I would say do not hold back that much. Just compare it with already existing items, especially the bonus spell slot giving items. Yes of course a number of them is rare. But if there are without any malus, hell they even give bonus to skills spell slot items, I am not sure why you would punish the paladins even further. Since a well played/RP-ed paladin already has it hard. Just take a look at all the bonus spell slot giving items and tweak it based on them. (Reference Hunta's amulet)



 

Currently playing:
Rudrig von Rachenthall - the travelling merchant

MAB77

  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 2389
Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #152 on: December 29, 2019, 08:34:32 AM »
Hi Nem, a few personal comments on your proposals.

On a general level, I advise not to reference the Forgotten Realms setting anymore on item descriptions. We have an over abundance of those on the server. This is a Ravenloft server and it would be preferable to focus directly on fleshing out the lore of the Demiplane of Dread instead. That is not to say there is no place for items from other settings, but in those cases I'd focus on items that have a distinctive sinister vibe about them, or that are filling a specific purpose.


Cloak Of Charisma
Greater Cloak of Charisma

We already have our fair share of items that casts Eagle Splendor making this aspect redundant. As for the greater cloak, spells that are unique to a particular class are best not included in items. It takes away from the uniqueness of the class, and decreases the need to team up with others to benefit from it.

Cloak of Protection
Greater Cloak of Protection

I think you made a mistake here. Your Cloak of Protection is more powerful than your Greater Cloak of Protection. +1 universal save without any downside is too powerful. I'd actually divide those in three different cloaks, each granting +1 on one of the saving throw types, but at the cost of a small damage vulnerability to either slashing, piercing or bludgeoning. That way they are both beneficial and slightly risky to use at the same time.

Lords Cloak

That's 2 significant skill increases and a saving throw bonus without any downsides. Maybe if it was just a +1 bonus to either skills, but even then we already have the Blessed Knightly Cloak that grants a +1 will bonus.

Soldiers Cloak

I suggest to pattern this one along the lines of the Knightly Cloak and Blessed Knightly Cloak. Cold Resist 5/- (as staying warm really is what lowly soldiers would use a cloak for), +1 Discipline on the Soldier's Cloak itself, and the greater version being Cold Resist 5/-, Saving throw bonus +1 Fortitude, +1 Discipline.

Cloak of Eyes

While I have nothing against the item itself, I question if it would ever be worn aside from the very brief and occasional times where there is an attempt to locate a hidden door or when it is briefly swapped to cast the spell. You might as well just come up with a consummable item to cast the spell.

Broken Heart of Innocence
Heart of Innocence
Purest Heart of Innocence

Let us not start the spell slot items debate again, but it just won't happen under my watch. Spell slots items only reinforce characters that are already advantaged with their spellcasting abilities. If others devs wants to add them, fine, but it won't be me. Balance wise it is best to have items that cast spells using spellcharges. You can have more characters use the item that way.

Duelist Belt
Master Duellist Belt

I'd add a third belt. With the first one being Discipline +1, Parry +1, with the higher versions getting downsides increasing with the items power.

Tunnel Ranger Belt

Granting the benefit of a feat through an item is especially powerful. It needs to be counterbalanced with something equally harmful to the user. Furthermore, dwarves have darkvision by default, it is not a property they'd need to imbue in a magical item.

Belt of the Balance

An alignment restriction to true neutral and neutral good characters seems in order here.

Defender of Purity

Redundant with the Guardian shield

Shield of the Raptor

That seems fine to me, but +1 AC is the property of steel. That should be the material it is made of.


Mark of the Hawk
Razors Edge
Sterkt Hjerte
Shard of Niflheim

Those are fine as is. Not sure they would see much use compared to other items available.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 08:39:04 AM by MAB77 »
Best Regards!
MAB

Proud member of the Dev team, kindly working nights and days to bring you all more creative ways to slay all your PCs, faster and more efficiently!

Nemesis 24

  • Society of the Erudite
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1081
Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #153 on: December 29, 2019, 09:14:19 AM »
The Cloak of Charisma argument makes sense, I suppose.  I think you missed with the cloaks of protection that both have +1 universal saves.  It should be noted with all cloaks that I did not add cold resistance because it adds a staggering amount to the item cost in the haks now (several thousand gold to base cost), that boost them up with the other properties into the 1% tables.  I've not seen a Blessed Knightly Cloak even being sold in a very, very long time, possibly because of this.

That said, giving them a damage vulnerability makes them immediately trash.  They're not worth putting in at that point, especially not for the characters they're intended for, which will be frontliners - most of these cloaks are intended for such, as short of the 1% cloaks, absolutely nothing is worth taking for them if they happen to use a shield, aside from a winter cloak.  Either redundancy or maluses rule it out.

I find the slot item debate a touch on the nose when Ranger was given several not that long ago, unless I'm wrong.  Either way, they still exist.  It was the only reason I suggested these items, truth be told - paladin is the only class that has a single spell slot item.  Much more powerful classes (and 1 vs 1 a ranger is vastly more powerful) get several.

With the belts, maluses are almost certain to make them useless.  Most malus items are nothing more than vendor trash with a few exceptions.  Players want useful items, and in most cases a malus (especially of the harm level you are proposing) add them to the pile of equipment (any stat dropping item comes to mind) that is nothing more than vendor junk, rendered pointless otherwise.  In particular, at the moment in belts the only worthwhile go-to belts are the /5 slashing, piercing and bludgeoning belts, swapped out as needed.  Nothing else holds any particular worth except situationally.  To change that, the belts need to be offering something equally worthwhile, while not being better.

Need to fix that material of that one shield.  The other one, marked as redundant - correct me if I'm wrong but the guardian shield isn't versus evil enemies.  I was under the impression it was against a different alignment, but perhaps I am misremembering.


Ercvadasz

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1108
Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #154 on: December 29, 2019, 12:43:56 PM »

I find the slot item debate a touch on the nose when Ranger was given several not that long ago, unless I'm wrong.  Either way, they still exist.  It was the only reason I suggested these items, truth be told - paladin is the only class that has a single spell slot item.  Much more powerful classes (and 1 vs 1 a ranger is vastly more powerful) get several.


Agree with this part. Rangers have received the bow and the armours not too long ago. Prior to that they received the huntas amulet, in order for them to have an extra blade thirst. (Allthough since then the rangers have gotten a lot of extra spells, which sadly have actually reduced them to a single path. They became another best to get pure dex based...due to bane bow being this OP. By level 16 they easily can get their ab up to a minimum of +30 with this not to mention their damage output vs FE.)
The armour and the bow both give a level 2 spell slot.(The lesser armour) This is where most of the good spells lie for a ranger, allthough the armour enforces dex play. Any versatile ranger is actually worse off than before.(not to mention str ranger etc.)
The higher tier armour, which grants a level 4 spell slot, is just a plain gamechanger. It is so rare, that actually it is barely sold and it is mostly given out to friends(triggering massive ooc trading and metagaming, but this is just my personal oppinion and experience thus the brackets).

So i would agree that there is nothing wrong for the paladins to receive extra spells, especially if you consider that they are usually travelling with others, and therefore their buffing capabilities could be put to a better use this way. The only reason i would agree against the three necklaces is that they all consume the same slot. Therefore you can have all three items yet only use one. So some items that take up different slots are better.


With the belts, maluses are almost certain to make them useless.  Most malus items are nothing more than vendor trash with a few exceptions.  Players want useful items, and in most cases a malus (especially of the harm level you are proposing) add them to the pile of equipment (any stat dropping item comes to mind) that is nothing more than vendor junk, rendered pointless otherwise.  In particular, at the moment in belts the only worthwhile go-to belts are the /5 slashing, piercing and bludgeoning belts, swapped out as needed.  Nothing else holds any particular worth except situationally.  To change that, the belts need to be offering something equally worthwhile, while not being better.


Actually the save belts are still a nice addition. vs death, vs spells, vs disease....(belt of stability, moral fortitude). And of course for sneakers the sneaking belts.
But what you say is mostly true, however i would still agree with Mab, that the Tunneler belt with two feats is just plain too much.
Currently playing:
Rudrig von Rachenthall - the travelling merchant

Phantasia

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 843
  • Bout Dat Wo
Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #155 on: January 06, 2020, 08:21:34 PM »
This thread is for item requests only.

Discussion is supposed to go here: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=44497.msg639175#msg639175

As per moderator Iridni's request I've decided to also upvote all of Philos' items here.

Liked, commented, subscribed.
Characters: M.J. Harding - Minstrel, among other things...

Haeresis

  • Church of Ezra - Refuge of Fifth Light
  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Hellbilly
Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #156 on: January 06, 2020, 08:26:28 PM »
This thread is for item requests only.

Discussion is supposed to go here: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=44497.msg639175#msg639175

As per moderator Iridni's request I've decided to also upvote all of Philos' items here.

Liked, commented, subscribed.

+1

Distributing the finest amphetamemes since 2015

Pav

  • Vice City
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1289
  • Carry on, citizen.
Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #157 on: January 06, 2020, 08:38:02 PM »
This thread is for item requests only.

Discussion is supposed to go here: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=44497.msg639175#msg639175

As per moderator Iridni's request I've decided to also upvote all of Philos' items here.

Liked, commented, subscribed.

+1

+2. Thank you Mod Ren.
Currently Playing: Ilona Rosztóczy

EO

  • Assistant Head DM/Developer
  • Head DMs
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 15658
  • The one and only, the one everyone wants to be!
Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #158 on: January 06, 2020, 09:44:21 PM »
I've removed the replies in the original topic. Iridni is right, discussion should take place here.

Relapse

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 87
Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #159 on: January 06, 2020, 11:28:42 PM »
As mentioned before i'm not a fan of the silenced pistol or having one handed items with move silently on them. There's already a huge imbalance there against listen items. The rest look great.

Revenant

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
  • Void that.
Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #160 on: January 07, 2020, 01:21:47 AM »
As far as stealth one-handers go it's almost strictly worse than a regular Shadow Strike. I like the suggestions, particularly for muskets (which we have very little variety of currently), and the suggested pistols could help fit a variety of archetypes that might find such things in their hands.
Double, double, toil and trouble...

zDark Shadowz

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 424
Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #161 on: January 07, 2020, 03:49:41 AM »
Silenced guns sounds good, I know how short the duration is and there was one time running darklings that one of our party members fired a gunshot and we assume it made all the darklings in the entire forest come to hunt us. If silence prevents that if that's an actual mechanic, that would be a nice quirk to apply.
Currently playing Karaz Steel, the Knave with the Glaive.

FunkyMonkey

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #162 on: January 08, 2020, 04:24:50 AM »
Can anyone tell me where I can make item templates? Using steam, so I can't use Nwn tools as far as I see..

modderpunk

  • Developers
  • Dark Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 845
Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #163 on: January 08, 2020, 06:12:40 AM »
You should be able to use the toolset through steam



Building out off the mists

MAB77

  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 2389
Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
« Reply #164 on: January 08, 2020, 06:18:38 AM »
Can anyone tell me where I can make item templates? Using steam, so I can't use Nwn tools as far as I see..

Not sure if it applies to you, but some of us had issues with using the Toolset crashing if the computer uses an Nvidia graphic card. The solution is to access the Nvidia Control Panel and turn off Threaded Optimization under Manage 3D Settings.
Best Regards!
MAB

Proud member of the Dev team, kindly working nights and days to bring you all more creative ways to slay all your PCs, faster and more efficiently!