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Author Topic: An Idea For PvP rules  (Read 1442 times)

InsaniD

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An Idea For PvP rules
« on: August 18, 2016, 08:59:55 AM »
Hi I am not new but I am new again so to say. Now I have seen something with the pvp style here that is both good and bad. Now with the good I have seen many great rp with the anger that leads to the pvp but the aftermath is what concerns me. One has to do with a pvp that I witnessed and was part of. Now with that being said I will not state the details for fear of Metagaming. One of the people involved stated ooc he was subdual mode while my char was not which ended with a death of the person. Now my concern is that with a death you should not remember the actions leading to it say about an hour if the pvp was not a perma. This is not the first server that I have played on nor my last. One rule set I noticed worked was this if pvp does in fact happen and death occurs the dying party has no memories of that incident. Which does work but also with that being said there is a chance of the memories can return but a roll would have to be done with a high dc. I know this could be hard for those that are used to the ways that has been done for many years but if I that was here and went to another server on another system of nwn can learn them so can many of us. Also one rule I seen with pvp was a time allotment where the two that was in the pvp can waver if desired on the server system I was on it was 24 hour time where the two could not be in contact with one another to prevent greifing ( where the player is upset at the loss and goes back after the person )  but that also has to do with do with  a non permadeath loss but was killed in the process. Being in a rp world with tension such as the lands of mists can give you there will be a pvp or two out there. Another thing is doing a godmode of acting that the npc can not be a witness well guess what that should be frown upon. ( Godmode  of npcs means to act like a dm is using them or not and follow the rules that they witness the actions of the event of such.) But with that means we have to take stills or screenies more work for us players lol but it will help the busy dms with the world.  I am not asking for much but to help with metagaming whether it is intentional or not but the memory loss should be looked in as a good way.

HellsPanda

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Re: An Idea For PvP rules
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2016, 09:24:24 AM »
The PvP rules here have worked for years. Killing someone does not clear memory, this will force you to have to figure out better ways to conflict.

You can also not learn anything about what happened as a ghost.

The grace period kinda does exist, because you are not allowed to seek out PvP for OOC reasons, which it would be if you where just clobbered.

You are not allowed to PvP around NPCs, as that ignores NPCs, but you are also not allowed to use NPCs as shields to protect you if your picking a fight

InsaniD

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Re: An Idea For PvP rules
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2016, 11:16:03 AM »
I understand what you are saying in my view of the PvP deaths should have an amnesia of some sorts. But if no one is able to tell your char what happened is kinda metagaming one that if there is no evidience of who done such also if your body was burnt to ashes there is no evidence either. But I am only giving my thoughts on making the PvP system to improve and also clear any questions. Not saying we should give up on the system that has been here for years just suggestions.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 11:19:34 AM by InsaniD »

FinalHeaven

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Re: An Idea For PvP rules
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2016, 11:18:53 AM »
The answer to why it's not metagaming is because there is a difference between having evidence to convince others and knowing for certain yourself. You know who killed you because you were there to witness it. The only things you don't remember are anything you see as a ghost.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 11:22:36 AM by FinalHeaven »

MrSmiley

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Re: An Idea For PvP rules
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2016, 11:43:59 AM »
The answer to why it's not metagaming is because there is a difference between having evidence to convince others and knowing for certain yourself. You know who killed you because you were there to witness it. The only things you don't remember are anything you see as a ghost.

That's assuming that memories do not change, and perceptions are entirely accurate (especially in high-stress scenarios, god knowing what death would do to you that a concussion wouldn't.) - In real-life there's been numerous studies on memory within these scenarios to point out that it's much more fragile than most people realise. Hence why witness testimonies are receiving heavy scrutiny in the judical system in the last decade.

But in the end I think it's important to just leave things like this up to the individuals as much as possible - and if things need to go to the DM's then to let them sort it on an individual basis, and for their decision to be respected.

FinalHeaven

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Re: An Idea For PvP rules
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2016, 11:49:01 AM »
The answer to why it's not metagaming is because there is a difference between having evidence to convince others and knowing for certain yourself. You know who killed you because you were there to witness it. The only things you don't remember are anything you see as a ghost.

That's assuming that memories do not change, and perceptions are entirely accurate (especially in high-stress scenarios, god knowing what death would do to you that a concussion wouldn't.) - In real-life there's been numerous studies on memory within these scenarios to point out that it's much more fragile than most people realise. Hence why witness testimonies are receiving heavy scrutiny in the judical system in the last decade.

But in the end I think it's important to just leave things like this up to the individuals as much as possible - and if things need to go to the DM's then to let them sort it on an individual basis, and for their decision to be respected.

I don't inherently disagree with you, I just wanted to illustrate why it's not metagaming in the context of the rule. The official rule is that you don't lose any parts of your memory when killed.  Certainly, if players want to  differently and one agrees to lose some or all of their memory I don't think that's an issue. It's just important to remember that it's not mandatory.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 11:51:07 AM by FinalHeaven »

Syl

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Re: An Idea For PvP rules
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2016, 12:11:59 PM »
The answer to why it's not metagaming is because there is a difference between having evidence to convince others and knowing for certain yourself. You know who killed you because you were there to witness it. The only things you don't remember are anything you see as a ghost.

Most end up going with this decision. I personally don't, ruins the fun even when any of my characters day they don't recall how it happened. it is a personal choice if your character remembers who killed them or not. I know my rogue still doesn't fully recall her first experience in perfidy which left her the massive scaring on her back and where she was killed by a balor in the end. it's a hazy memory and she just slowly recalls a few more bits and pieces, and this was almost half a year ago.

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Miuo

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Re: An Idea For PvP rules
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2016, 12:18:10 PM »
I kind of like how its not a rule that you loose your memories, it gives a reason to hold back and think it out more. Whether to decide if its worth while or not, or to make plans to commit the crime in a way that it cant be linked back to you.

Exordium

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Re: An Idea For PvP rules
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2016, 06:06:40 AM »
In my opinion, if characters lost memories regarding PvP, then PvP would have much less value RP-wise.

Why would your character be afraid of someone after being killed by them if they don't remember them? Why would your character not just seek back to the same kind of conflict when they can?

Even though I belong to the camp of players that usually rather pulls out of IC conflicts than participates in PvP, I still feel that it's really a great thing that PvP is taken as a natural part of RP without any artificial-sounding rules such as memory losses. How I see it, this benefits RP.

Hlot

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Re: An Idea For PvP rules
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2016, 06:16:24 AM »
You can play this way yourself but you can't force others.

Exordium

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Re: An Idea For PvP rules
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2016, 06:20:44 AM »
You can play this way yourself but you can't force others.

Well, the point of rule discussions is about what we should force on others and what we shouldn't. That's the very idea of a rule - to force people into certain behavior or to force certain behavior to stop.

I might be of the opinion that the PvP rules are fine as they are, but it's legit to bring this under question and to propose additional rules.

Hlot

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Re: An Idea For PvP rules
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2016, 06:57:18 AM »
I was actually commenting first post, forgot to quote it.