Author Topic: Sprucing up Vallaki  (Read 8090 times)

herkles

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Sprucing up Vallaki
« on: April 03, 2016, 09:21:36 PM »
Hello,

I quite like the watcher estate and kind of feel like of that place. I was thinking of some things to spruce up and make vallaki more interesting and fun, and no I am not going to say remove the lady's rest(I would like that but given up fighting that battle).

 :arrow: Make the whole wall accessible only to garda(well those with the key) and let it extend around the whole city. So garda could patrol the whole city from the safety of the walls.

 :arrow: use similar textures for both outskirts that the wachter estate outdoor area uses. So that part of the town looks well more rural. Keep everything largely the same(though see the next point for additions to the outskirts) including the Lady's rest and chapel. Barovia is described as being overwhelmingly rural as well, so showing it would be good.

 :arrow: Have farms, orchids and barovian NPCs in the western outskirts, and around the town in general. It should be an outskirts of town and most medieval towns tended to have farms in well the outskirts. This does mean people would during the day anyways need to watch their magic using in the outskirts, but could help remind people that the outskirts is part of barovia. Not to mention Vallaki in particular has lots of orchids for their tsukia.

 :arrow: speaking of the outskirts, this would be a great time to move the entrance to the walls there a little more inward. It is a bit of a pain to get up there due to how close the transition is. just a minor thing that would be helpful.

 :arrow: have alternative ways to get to the sewers from the starting area. As I like to see more NPCs in the outskirts. Caliban might need an extra tunnel to get to the sewers/away from civilization. So perhaps a short cut to the woods from there?

 :arrow: There are several shops in the market district that don't have anything there, just boarded up. A shop down one fo the allys and Simons quill. Perhaps the book store could relocate here. Related. maybe something could be done with all the old indivdual crafting places?

Feel free to add any ideas about sprucing up Vallaki here :)

Sincerely,

~herkles~


dark_majico

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2016, 06:55:06 AM »
I like the ideas having NPC's in the outskirts, and guards having access to the walk ways. I have two more ideas, the transition between the slums and the nobles district is difficult to navigate without changing the camera angle because you appear behind the doorway, moving the way point slightly would be a big help, and the house in front of the hideous Rat man in the slums is permanently smoking/animated which after years is starting to irritate me because it makes no sense lol. Right clicking the tile in the toolset and unticking loop animation will stop that (or something like that) and stop it being so bizarre.

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2016, 12:16:39 PM »
Love all your ideas <3

I dont think Vallaki has a tailor, so that may be one shop option. Some various forms of traditional barovian peasant attire.

Rp wise, you could likely also add a courier pigeon type shop/towery thing as a physical possible rp destination for the letters people pm and emote sending. While it cant actually do anything, might be night to have such rather then just a non descript locked door.

Perhaps a few more empty homes, as well as derelict homes as well. Or even adding in a home where a family fell pray to one of the nights many horrors. So lots of blood, broken furniture, claw marks or what have you.

Would love to see alot of the inns get another once over. Alot of the default table heights are uber high, even for humans. Lowering them by like 0.05 - 0.015 would be really appreciated for those of us who arent half orcs :3

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2016, 12:17:35 PM »
I like the ideas having NPC's in the outskirts, and guards having access to the walk ways. I have two more ideas, the transition between the slums and the nobles district is difficult to navigate without changing the camera angle because you appear behind the doorway, moving the way point slightly would be a big help, and the house in front of the hideous Rat man in the slums is permanently smoking/animated which after years is starting to irritate me because it makes no sense lol. Right clicking the tile in the toolset and unticking loop animation will stop that (or something like that) and stop it being so bizarre.

The wagon out front of the abandoned inn near midway, has been on fire for years v-v

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2016, 12:39:49 PM »
There's a tailors shop in the Residential District, been there for years.

Bluebomber4evr

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2016, 12:46:11 PM »
We can't "use the same textures" as the Wachter estate because it uses a completely different tileset, and completely remaking Vallaki in a different tileset is out of the question.

As for farmers in the outskirts, they are already there.

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ladylena

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2016, 12:55:27 PM »
I think herkles meant more like wandering people going into the town, or just lingering near the church and inn area?
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herkles

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2016, 01:05:03 PM »
We can't "use the same textures" as the Wachter estate because it uses a completely different tileset, and completely remaking Vallaki in a different tileset is out of the question.
aww. Is it theoratically possible to remaking vallaki with the same tile set; which might have to happen to get the wall to surround the whole town. Some areas could be made smaller to make things easier for players, IMO the Residential district and the Warehouse district.

As for farmers in the outskirts, they are already there.

The western outskirts doesn't have any farms. The eastern ones due, but not the Western. I was thinking that Western Outskirts could also have some farms and the farmers there. :)


Also what of the other ideas I mentioned bluebomber, particularly the wall one? :)


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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2016, 01:33:16 PM »
Making the areas of Vallaki smaller really isn't feasible, either.

Adding access to Vallaki's walls isn't a bad idea, although I could swear someone had already done that, or at least started on it.

The Simon's Quill store was made with the intention of a different scribing system than what we have at the moment. I suppose we could do something with it, though.

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Miuo

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2016, 02:06:21 PM »
On the topic of textures and tilesets, it seems like it is possible since thats how overrides work. No one here may be able to do such, but it might be possible if requested on the vault.

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2016, 02:07:19 PM »
There's a tailors shop in the Residential District, been there for years.

Ah that might be why i dont recall it, i rarely ever go into the residential section, usually only slums, market, warehouse.

herkles

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2016, 02:25:20 PM »
Making the areas of Vallaki smaller really isn't feasible, either.

Not all the areas, the slums and the market district are pretty good sized IMO. I feel the residential and Warehouse districts have a lot of just empty area. The residential district in particular feels really large for its size.

My idea was to do one of two things either merging or shrinking. Shrinking is obvious, just make the zones smaller and by merging, I was thinking of merging the residential with the docks for the most part and the warehouse with the market district.

Adding access to Vallaki's walls isn't a bad idea, although I could swear someone had already done that, or at least started on it.

As for the walls they don't all hook up with each other. More over most of the walls have stairs that anyone can walk up to them. Having them all connected and for the garda would be better IMO. :)

The Simon's Quill store was made with the intention of a different scribing system than what we have at the moment. I suppose we could do something with it, though.

My idea that I thought was the easist, was just to relocate Houlgraves to the Market district. wouldn't need to redesign an interior just use the previous one.

There is also another book store boarded up in the back allys in the market district, not sure what to do with it. Perhaps move another store there?


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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2016, 02:44:50 PM »
The boarded up bookstore was a store secretly ran by a wizard , but eventually his secret was discovered and a mob burned his store down. Some Mage PCs helped him escape to Dementlieu.

As for Vallaki, again we're not going to to resize or remake or merge any of the existing areas.


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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2016, 03:08:11 PM »
On the topic of textures and tilesets, it seems like it is possible since thats how overrides work. No one here may be able to do such, but it might be possible if requested on the vault.
We're already using a texture override for the city tileset that we're pleased with. You are certainly free to use overrides of your own choosing, but we're not going to replace the one we are using in our hak.

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Miuo

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2016, 04:45:35 PM »
On the topic of textures and tilesets, it seems like it is possible since thats how overrides work. No one here may be able to do such, but it might be possible if requested on the vault.
We're already using a texture override for the city tileset that we're pleased with. You are certainly free to use overrides of your own choosing, but we're not going to replace the one we are using in our hak.

I was just commenting on how that the idea of changing the look of a map didn't exclusively mean using a new tileset and rebuilding everything from scratch. That if it was desired you could just override the actual textures with the ones you like without actually having to change or redo anything. Which was the reason given why the suggestion wasn't possible.

herkles

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2016, 05:13:00 PM »
The boarded up bookstore was a store secretly ran by a wizard , but eventually his secret was discovered and a mob burned his store down. Some Mage PCs helped him escape to Dementlieu.

Cool, though could that place be used for anything now?

As for Vallaki, again we're not going to to resize or remake or merge any of the existing areas.
A shame, it would be rather nice IMO especially if it had it so that the walls fully surround the town of Vallaki; as the areas would have to be redesigned for this purpose. But alas.

What about getting farms and farmers in the western outskirts?


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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2016, 05:25:29 PM »
Quote
What about getting farms and farmers in the western outskirts?

That's a tricky design decision. If you do that, you alienate a lot of the current characters that frequent the outskirts, thus making it less popular as a low level hub. That hub is placed there for a reason. If it ends up being empty because only a certain set of characters can go there, new players will have a much harder time finding RP. There's nothing more discouraging as a new player than walking through tons of areas and finding no one to RP with.

Olywynn

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2016, 05:44:23 PM »
Could always be solved with a notice directing newcomers to a certain area in the town to look for work.  Install a couple street signs, and you're good.

herkles

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2016, 06:24:45 PM »
Quote
What about getting farms and farmers in the western outskirts?

That's a tricky design decision. If you do that, you alienate a lot of the current characters that frequent the outskirts, thus making it less popular as a low level hub. That hub is placed there for a reason. If it ends up being empty because only a certain set of characters can go there, new players will have a much harder time finding RP. There's nothing more discouraging as a new player than walking through tons of areas and finding no one to RP with.

I disagree, and if it was designed to be for mages to cast spells willy nilly in the outskirts and pretend they are not in a land that fears magic, I would say that it was kind of designed bad.

Mind you the idea, was to show that outskirts was still well part of vallaki, and still had the same general barovianess as the rest of the city. Not be a mini fearun/eberron/planescape land. Having NPCs here would help the immersivness of the area. They would still go into the hovels at night, so people can cast freely like there is no tomorrow during the night.

Though personally, i would rather see the actual town of vallaki being used. The market district being used as a place to sell things, public announcements being made in the town square, preaching for the various churchly factions, people looking to recruit  in the town square. but alas, we got little fearun instead of a medieval town.

Could always be solved with a notice directing newcomers to a certain area in the town to look for work.  Install a couple street signs, and you're good.
That is always good too. :)


Also what of moving houlgraves to where simon's quill shop is, ie from the residential to the market district district? or making Simon's shop into a new shop?


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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2016, 07:09:09 PM »
Building a hub is more complicated than just saying "Build it and they (he) will come". It's not a Kevin Costner movie.

The reasons why people go there to congregate is specifically because it's a place where characters of different backgrounds can interact freely. Yes, it's at the cost of "enforcing" the setting but that's the price to pay to build a hub. That's why the two most popular areas are areas where there are very few NPCs around. It also makes it much less DM dependent.

As for rebuilding Vallaki, it's a discussion the development team has had many times and it always boils down to: Is it worth the time and huge effort? To someone who doesn't build for NwN, it may seem easy and simple but it's not. If you resize Vallaki, you then have to resize all areas connecting to it or under it (sewers); so in addition to the 6 areas of the town itself, you then need to change at least a dozen other exteriors, not to mention interiors.

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2016, 07:21:41 PM »
Personally, I like how Vallaki is at the moment.

Sure, a wall going all around the city for the guards to walk on would be nice, but not necessary (That said I wouldn't mind if such a wall was made.. hehe :P )
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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2016, 08:14:33 PM »
If I may make a suggestion, how about expanding and improving around the Village of Barovia?  Granted we have the Forest Fane, the swamps, the stone circle and the like, but it is _far_ smaller than western Barovia and Vallaki.  Perhaps expanding it would be a better direction for our builders to work with?
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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2016, 08:49:10 PM »
Well the village is supposed to be small. Few people want to stay there for very long.

Having said that, I do plan on adding one more area as part of the actual village and several more dungeons nearby.

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Miuo

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2016, 08:55:11 PM »
Not sure they meant just the village, but the content around the village.

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Re: Sprucing up Vallaki
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2016, 09:40:02 PM »
Personally, I like how Vallaki is at the moment.

Sure, a wall going all around the city for the guards to walk on would be nice, but not necessary (That said I wouldn't mind if such a wall was made.. hehe :P )

Yeah, Vallaki is great. I like the entire thing as a whole, each district has its own character.