Author Topic: All things Sithican?  (Read 11400 times)

hugolino

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #50 on: March 30, 2016, 05:40:29 AM »
They're kender, but I think it's probably worth noting there isn't a single living kender in Sithicus. Soth tortured them all and transformed all of them into vampires.

There's a website that has reposted material on the Demiplanes of Dread, including Sithicus, that appears to be earlier in the timeline than the server's time period, because Lord Soth is still in Sithicus in the texts and the kender race is mentioned by name. This is what it says regarding the kender in Sithicus during the time of Lord Soth's reign.

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Although Soth destroyed most of the kender that existed in the domain by turning them into kender vampires through dark experiments, a few survived and now live in the woods. They have the reputation of being some of the most violent and xenophobic people of the Core. Natives avoid the areas of the forest that have been claimed by the kender. Visitors to the domain can recognize the boundaries of kender territory by the rotting heads that are spiked to the trees at its edges; the kender of Sithicus thus turn trespassers into "No Trespassing" signs.

I found the following to be surprising. After describing the racists attitudes of Sithican elves towards others, it reads:

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Heroes from Sithicus are generally not plagued by the racist attitudes of their fellow elves, although there are exceptions. Half-elf and half-Vistani player characters are also found in Sithicus.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 05:43:25 AM by hugolino »

hugolino

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2016, 06:13:12 AM »
Gazetteer 4 says that Sithican elves and Darkonian elves can communicate. Gazetteer 2 doesn't make any mention of a special or particular version of Elven that Darkonian elves would speak, so presumably they speak generic D&D elven. Doesn't that basically mean that, barring the occasional confusion of phrasing or dialect, just about any elf would understand Sithican elven?

This may be off topic, but it at least touches on the connection between Elven and domain languages. It is an excerpt from a "Domains of Dread" publication online (a text scan of an official published work). It is not about Darkon, but rather seems to suggest a similarity between Elven and the languages of Kartakass and Hazlan, so much so that those who know Elven or Hazlan have a 1 in 20 chance of understanding a conversation in the language of Kartakass and the odds grow with each passing day exposed to the language.

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The language spoken in Kartakass is similar to that spoken in Hazlan, yet oddly enough, it shares many elements with elvish; foreign heroes who know either of those languages have a 5% chance of understanding any conversation, with an additional 1% added to that chance for each day spent among the populace.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 06:16:38 AM by hugolino »

Bluebomber4evr

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2016, 03:44:06 PM »
Alright, I need more clarification on Sithican elven.

Gazetteer 4 says that Sithican elves and Darkonian elves can communicate. Gazetteer 2 doesn't make any mention of a special or particular version of Elven that Darkonian elves would speak, so presumably they speak generic D&D elven. Doesn't that basically mean that, barring the occasional confusion of phrasing or dialect, just about any elf would understand Sithican elven? Why does Sithican even exist as a language in the language system? It's making things confusing for players.

As it stands, I'm content to let it play into the Sithican superiority thing and just mock elves for not being able to understand.
No, Sithicans, just like the Silvanesti of Krynn, speak their own distinct language.

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BahamutZ3RO

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2016, 04:03:33 PM »
But Silvanesti Elven is the 'original' Elven of Krynn, that all other forms of Elven (Kagonesti [a mix of Elven and Sylvan] and Qualinesti [Elven and human/kender/dwarven/etc) have deviated from, and every form of Elven in the setting is understood by the other subraces.



Source; Dragonlance Campaign Handbook.

And here's the blip on the Sithican language, where it states that Sithicans and Darkonian elves can 'generally understand eachother'.

« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 04:07:12 PM by BahamutZ3RO »
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herkles

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2016, 04:47:14 PM »
Lets see if we can simplyfy this to be logical how about: the darkonese elves all speak sithican but the darkonese dialect of sithican then :P

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #55 on: March 30, 2016, 07:12:54 PM »
Bah, serves me right for commenting on lore without being near my books. :P

I suppose all of the elven languages can be considered dialects of "generic D&D elven".

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herkles

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2016, 07:20:26 PM »
Bah, serves me right for commenting on lore without being near my books. :P

I suppose all of the elven languages can be considered dialects of "generic D&D elven".

Stupid dnd monoculturalism strikes again! It is honestly the thing I hate the most about dnd races, all elves are like blah, all dwarves are like blah, while humans have a dazzling array of different cultures and languages. Other races should have plenty of different cultures and differences. :)

or to quote Sten and Wrex :P

Kaidan: I haven't spent much time with krogan before, Wrex, and I have to say, you're not what I expected.
Wrex: Right. Because humans have a wide range of cultures and attitudes, but krogan all think and act exactly alike.

Warden: Tell me about the qunari.
Sten: No.
Warden: I wasn't expecting that.
Sten: Get used to disappointment. People are not simple. They cannot be defined for easy reference in the manner of: 'the elves are a lithe, pointy-eared people who excel at poverty.'

BahamutZ3RO

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #57 on: March 30, 2016, 07:31:56 PM »
Bah, serves me right for commenting on lore without being near my books. :P

I suppose all of the elven languages can be considered dialects of "generic D&D elven".

Like I said, I don't really mind that Sithican occupies it's own slot, so long as it's ruled that it can be recognized (potentially with some difficulty). It's actually making for some interesting interactions with non-Sithicans who claim they can't understand. My char gets to ridicule them for being unable to speak 'proper' elven. :D
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MAB77

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #58 on: March 30, 2016, 10:32:15 PM »
D&D continuity is a mess with its own contradicting lore and the Ravenloft setting suffers a lot for those discrepancies.

Not all sourcebooks agree on whether or not the different elven dialects are close enough to be understood by each other sub-races of elves. But generally, they do indicate all type of elves can understand each others. I believe it all comes from the early days of D&D, where a decision was made for the sake of simplicity that all sub-races of elves could understand each other. It is a silly rule, one which deprive us from the RP opportunities of elves from different cultures encountering each others.

Above all we play in the Ravenloft setting, we should be bound only by its rules (and even then we certainly have our fair share of rule variations of our owns within the mod). Sure it is nice to be accommodating as best as possible with the rules of other D&D settings, but we certainly don't have to be bound by them. We have not addressed the question of Elven languages from Non-D&D settings either. Some, like the languages of Middle-Earth are quite clearly different from each others, I fail to see why they should be able to understand all other elven dialects as well.

To avoid all issues we should put all languages on the same footing regardless of their setting of origin (D&D or otherwise), I propose the following rules:

1) Unless specifically noted otherwise, all racial dialects are considered unique enough to be their own different languages. Speaking one does not allow a player to understand the other dialects of his race. This applies even if this contradicts a non-Ravenloft sourcebook.

2) Darkonese elves speak the generic elven language of D&D [Elf].

3) Sithican Elvish & the Sylvanesti language from Dragonlance setting are one and the same [Sc]. But while the Sylvanesti speaks it graciously, the Sithicans are known to speak it in a dissonant way. They would still understand each other perfectly well.

4) The generic elven tongue [Elf] and Sithican [Sc] are still close enough, that speakers of those tongues may understand each other, but such communication requires a measure of efforts, concentration and to talk slowly to each other. //Here I would suggest a concentration check DC 15 in normal conversation conditions, DC 20 in times of stress (as in a combat).
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 03:39:43 AM by MAB77 »
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hugolino

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2016, 12:14:23 AM »
^ Very good proposals.

Truth_USMC

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #60 on: June 24, 2016, 07:36:32 PM »
Can the Sithican elves go back to following their old deities? For purpose of being a cleric?
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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #61 on: June 24, 2016, 08:01:57 PM »
You mean like Paladine and the like?

It's not forbidden or impossible or against the rules or anything, but it's very unlikely.

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