Author Topic: All things Sithican?  (Read 12201 times)

BahamutZ3RO

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All things Sithican?
« on: March 01, 2016, 12:47:20 PM »
This is more for curiosity's sake, but I've read the Gazetteer on Sithicus a few times and it's sort of nebulous. The Gazetteer refuses to refer to any of the Halflings in Sithicus as Kender (I'm guessing this is due to licensing, same way that they refuse to refer to Soth by name), though it does state that Falkovnians call them Bitterkinder. We know that the Dark Lord converted a bunch to vampires, but the Gazetteer also mentions that some have escaped and settled and that they'd make good Paladins.

So where is the line drawn? The vampires are Kender but the escapees remain Halflings?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 03:02:50 PM by BahamutZ3RO »
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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2016, 01:00:49 PM »
They're kender, but I think it's probably worth noting there isn't a single living kender in Sithicus. Soth tortured them all and transformed all of them into vampires.

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BahamutZ3RO

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2016, 01:08:46 PM »
The "Sithican Hero" tab of the Gazetteer implies that not all Kender were tortured and turned.

"A select few from the growing numbers of halflings have turned to the life of the paladin, as younglings born to halflings who escaped with their lives have not grown up under the grim rule of the Black Rose."

These would be second and maybe third generation Kender who survived long enough for Soth to disappear and the new guy to not really care.
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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2016, 01:10:01 PM »
Sounds like someone needs to finish Soth's work.

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2016, 01:16:01 PM »
The "Sithican Hero" tab of the Gazetteer implies that not all Kender were tortured and turned.

"A select few from the growing numbers of halflings have turned to the life of the paladin, as younglings born to halflings who escaped with their lives have not grown up under the grim rule of the Black Rose."

These would be second and maybe third generation Kender who survived long enough for Soth to disappear and the new guy to not really care.

Yes; Dread just meant that none remain living in Sithicus. Those who escaped the domain do live elsewhere.
Hir yw'r dydd a hir yw'r nos, a hir yw aros Arawn.

BahamutZ3RO

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2016, 01:18:56 PM »
Okay, but that still goes back to the original question of what are they? Are they still technically Kender or do they somehow become Halflings?
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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2016, 01:19:57 PM »
Okay, but that still goes back to the original question of what are they? Are they still technically Kender or do they somehow become Halflings?

They're still Kender. They are, however, so numerically insignificant as not to merit demographic notice, and most of the Core can't tell the difference, anyway.
Hir yw'r dydd a hir yw'r nos, a hir yw aros Arawn.

BahamutZ3RO

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2016, 01:22:30 PM »
Iiiinteresting...

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Syl

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2016, 01:26:46 PM »
R.I.P Vampire Kenders in Sithicus... Poor guys. No one deserves that fate.

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2016, 03:11:36 PM »
Okay, but that still goes back to the original question of what are they? Are they still technically Kender or do they somehow become Halflings?
They're kender. The authors of the 3rd edition books believed (erroneously) that they couldn't refer to them as kender because of licensing issues, so that's why it's "vague and nebulous". This is also why Soth is always called "the Black Rose" in those same books.

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SanneJ

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2016, 04:47:42 PM »
It might be that they are all just halflings, as kender only come from the Dragonlance universe. maybe a few wandered out of the mists, but there are simply a lot more halflings around in all the fantasy universes.

Also Ravenloft uses some Dutch and German, sometimes not correct, bitterkinder translates as: dark children, or bitter children.   
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BahamutZ3RO

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2016, 04:54:59 PM »
It might be that they are all just halflings, as kender only come from the Dragonlance universe. maybe a few wandered out of the mists, but there are simply a lot more halflings around in all the fantasy universes.

Also Ravenloft uses some Dutch and German, sometimes not correct, bitterkinder translates as: dark children, or bitter children.

Sithicus is a Dragonlance domain. Sithican elves are Silvanesti, the Halflings are Kender, the ancient deities are dragons, etc.

Also, the bitterkinder thing is totes appropriate because they're referring to the evil vampiric Kender who live in the darker areas of Sithicus.

Sithicus continues to confuse me a bit cause no matter what, no playable PC elf from Sithicus is really a native. They'd be older than Sithicus itself, meaning either they'd remember Krynn or they came into being spontaneously when the domain appeared, I guess.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 04:58:56 PM by BahamutZ3RO »
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SanneJ

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2016, 05:52:30 PM »
Sithicus is a Dragonlance domain. Sithican elves are Silvanesti, the Halflings are Kender, the ancient deities are dragons, etc.

right, I knew that.. somewhere deep down in my memories, do I don't really know how Lord Soth ended up in Ravenloft.
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Syl

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2016, 06:56:02 PM »
Sithicus is a Dragonlance domain. Sithican elves are Silvanesti, the Halflings are Kender, the ancient deities are dragons, etc.

right, I knew that.. somewhere deep down in my memories, do I don't really know how Lord Soth ended up in Ravenloft.

If i recall from what i was told... Takhisis sent him To ravenloft... to either concur or... punishment which i cannot remember. I just know he could have taken it all over but got board since it was to easy... again just things I have been told by friends who know more then me..

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2016, 07:30:22 PM »
Sithicus is a Dragonlance domain. Sithican elves are Silvanesti, the Halflings are Kender, the ancient deities are dragons, etc.

right, I knew that.. somewhere deep down in my memories, do I don't really know how Lord Soth ended up in Ravenloft.

If i recall from what i was told... Takhisis sent him To ravenloft... to either concur or... punishment which i cannot remember. I just know he could have taken it all over but got board since it was to easy... again just things I have been told by friends who know more then me..
No he got swallowed up by the Mists after he betrayed Kitiara and let her die so he could turn her into an undead slave at the end of Test of the Twins.

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SanneJ

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2016, 07:31:43 PM »
And he toke thousands of other beings and all his lands with him, on the world of krynn there was just a big hole  :roll:
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BahamutZ3RO

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2016, 07:41:03 PM »
And he toke thousands of other beings and all his lands with him, on the world of krynn there was just a big hole  :roll:

I think it was more like the Mists Ctrl + C / Ctrl + V a new domain for him.
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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2016, 07:51:37 PM »
He only took the ghost of his sceneshal with him. First he ended up in barovia. He even was in vallaki. Sithicus was only created by the mists later when Soth entered the mists again.



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BahamutZ3RO

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2016, 08:00:22 PM »
He only took the ghost of his sceneshal with him. First he ended up in barovia. He even was in vallaki. Sithicus was only created by the mists later when Soth entered the mists again.

So does that mean that PC Sithican elves literally were created out of thin air? They wouldn't have memories of Krynn?
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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2016, 08:02:14 PM »
He only took the ghost of his sceneshal with him. First he ended up in barovia. He even was in vallaki. Sithicus was only created by the mists later when Soth entered the mists again.
Right, when he first appeared in Ravenloft he was in Barovia. After pissing off Strahd, he went to Gundarak. After pissing off Duke Gundar, he went off into the Mists and got trapped as the darklord of Sithicus.

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2016, 08:08:00 PM »
He only took the ghost of his sceneshal with him. First he ended up in barovia. He even was in vallaki. Sithicus was only created by the mists later when Soth entered the mists again.

So does that mean that PC Sithican elves literally were created out of thin air? They wouldn't have memories of Krynn?
They have memories of Krynn. They believe that they are trapped in Ravenloft for failing to stop Soth's atrocities. Now whether they are truly from Krynn or are just copies made by the Dark Powers is not clear, although there are no records of a large population of Silvanesti elves vanishing into thin air in any Dragonlance material.

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2016, 08:11:18 PM »
He only took the ghost of his sceneshal with him. First he ended up in barovia. He even was in vallaki. Sithicus was only created by the mists later when Soth entered the mists again.

So does that mean that PC Sithican elves literally were created out of thin air? They wouldn't have memories of Krynn?
They have memories of Krynn. They believe that they are trapped in Ravenloft for failing to stop Soth's atrocities. Now whether they are truly from Krynn or are just copies made by the Dark Powers is not clear, although there are no records of a large population of Silvanesti elves vanishing into thin air in any Dragonlance material.
...Both kind of depressing, yet intriguing at the same time.  Hate to find out that my Sithican elf isn't even real, but a creation of the Mists.  That could make for an excellent story arc.  In written material mostly, not sure HOW that would be handled in game.
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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2016, 08:23:37 PM »
He only took the ghost of his sceneshal with him. First he ended up in barovia. He even was in vallaki. Sithicus was only created by the mists later when Soth entered the mists again.
Right, when he first appeared in Ravenloft he was in Barovia. After pissing off Strahd, he went to Gundarak. After pissing off Duke Gundar, he went off into the Mists and got trapped as the darklord of Sithicus.

Didn't Soth geek Gundar and then drag the Vistani girl off to find Kurchek's grave, or something? It's been a while since I read Knight of the Black Rose.

I distinctly remember him telling his power ranger mode good self to suck an egg, and that he almost brought down Castle Ravenloft with a giant, magical fist.


Bluebomber4evr

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2016, 08:36:15 PM »
He only took the ghost of his sceneshal with him. First he ended up in barovia. He even was in vallaki. Sithicus was only created by the mists later when Soth entered the mists again.

So does that mean that PC Sithican elves literally were created out of thin air? They wouldn't have memories of Krynn?
They have memories of Krynn. They believe that they are trapped in Ravenloft for failing to stop Soth's atrocities. Now whether they are truly from Krynn or are just copies made by the Dark Powers is not clear, although there are no records of a large population of Silvanesti elves vanishing into thin air in any Dragonlance material.
...Both kind of depressing, yet intriguing at the same time.  Hate to find out that my Sithican elf isn't even real, but a creation of the Mists.  That could make for an excellent story arc.  In written material mostly, not sure HOW that would be handled in game.
At worst, he'd be a copy, but copies are still real!

I assume that *if* the Dark Powers are copying people, it would be like a mass version of the clone spell that copies the spirit as well.

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Syl

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2016, 09:17:01 PM »
I assume that *if* the Dark Powers are copying people, it would be like a mass version of the clone spell that copies the spirit as well.


And this is what happens when people get NPCs killed by mistake.. * chuckles* Sorry i know was of topic but it made me chuckle thinking of the Mist just cloning people... So thats like.. say you die in the vampire cave... and use the mist to come back... Maybe that body is just a clone then!!?!

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