You have been taken by the Mists

Author Topic: All things Sithican?  (Read 12198 times)

BahamutZ3RO

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2016, 09:20:26 PM »
I assume that *if* the Dark Powers are copying people, it would be like a mass version of the clone spell that copies the spirit as well.

Ah-hah! Like that time that players were accidentally creating clones of their characters when they logged in! I knew there was something evil about that.
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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2016, 09:28:14 PM »
I assume that *if* the Dark Powers are copying people, it would be like a mass version of the clone spell that copies the spirit as well.


And this is what happens when people get NPCs killed by mistake.. * chuckles* Sorry i know was of topic but it made me chuckle thinking of the Mist just cloning people... So thats like.. say you die in the vampire cave... and use the mist to come back... Maybe that body is just a clone then!!?!
It's not the Mists, it's the Dark Powers. The Dark Powers are either gods or equivalent to gods, given that it has been shown in Ravenloft books that they can:

 :arrow: Make an exact duplicate of Barovia that's identical to the original in every way (in Roots of Evil)
 :arrow: Transport people through time (in Castles Forlorn)
 :arrow: Split a soul between two copies of the same person (Vampire of the Mists and presumably The House on Gryphon Hill)
 :arrow: Physically wrench a piece of land from its home plane (in Castles Forlorn)
 :arrow: They can send the Mists to retrieve/steal people from places that are normally cut off from planar travel, such as Athas and the Gothic Earth
 :arrow: They were able to imprison a demigod, Vecna, for a brief time.
 :arrow: They are able to keep the gods out of their demiplane
 :arrow: They can replace gods that have died, such as Bane for the people of Hazlan after he died in the Time of Troubles on Toril

Given all that, and probably more I've forgotten, I can't see how copying people down to their souls is that much of a stretch for the Dark Powers. It's conjecture, of course, and was never confirmed that is how the people of the domains of Ravenloft came to be (and likely never will be), but that's one way I could see it working.

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Syl

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2016, 12:17:55 AM »
Meant to say dark powers sorry.

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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2016, 12:42:51 AM »
As a tangent, makes me wonder if the Dark Powers and the Lady of Pain from Sigil took courses at the same omnipotent university. Hehehehe. Kind of a lot of similarities, in my opinion.  Back to your regularly scheduled thread.
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Re: What's the deal with Sithican Kender?
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2016, 03:46:06 AM »
So "maybe" all outlanders are just clones of themselves, and if they ever get home their mother will have two sons or daughters ;)




Off topic, I know.. sorry.
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BahamutZ3RO

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2016, 03:05:04 PM »
Bumping this given the conversation that cropped up in the languages thing.

My current working theory with Sithicus is that the powers copy/pasta'd the domain into the mists and left it there for a few centuries to 'incubate', then brought it out for Soth. It's the only thing I can think of that makes sense, given the long Elven lifespan and the amount of time that would have been needed for the changes to Sithican languages/societies/religions/etc.
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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2016, 03:19:29 PM »
I addressed the language thing. Sithican language = Silvanesti language. It's separate from standard elven, though. I will change the prefix for Silvanesti to be the same as the one for Sithican.

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MAB77

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2016, 03:19:33 PM »
As I implied before as well, consider too the curse the Dark Powers surimposed on Soth's already cursed existence, that his domain would closely remind him of his former home but with little differences everywhere which annoyed him much. The DPs would not need to incubate the domain for a few centuries. It copied whatever it wanted from Krynn tempering with the new Sithican Elves memories from the get go, thus explaining the differences.

Now of course Sithican or Krynnish elves would never understand the problem in those terms, but most Sithican elves, created by the DPs or not, do remember their "time" on Krynn in a fashion, even if the memory is muddled on some aspects, especially religions. So a domain incubated in the Mist for centuries makes no sense.

//Addendum: Blue has clarified the language thing. But this explanation is still an option for other Sithicus vs Krynn differences.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 03:24:17 PM by MAB77 »
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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2016, 03:19:51 PM »
I believe the most logical explanation is the dark powers created the land with the elves from scratch but made them seem like the elves from krynn with false memories and all.



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BahamutZ3RO

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2016, 03:23:09 PM »
I addressed the language thing. Sithican language = Silvanesti language. It's separate from standard elven, though. I will change the prefix for Silvanesti to be the same as the one for Sithican.

I understand that, I'm just struggling to find explanations for how the language changes that drastically over the course of 50 years. These are the sorts of things that need to make at least a bit of sense when you want to make a PC, otherwise you're just acknowledging that your character is essentially a cardboard cut-out prop that the Dark Powers put there to bug Soth.
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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2016, 03:24:54 PM »
There's no changes? Silvanesti have always had their own distinct language on Krynn. The Sithicans speak that exact same language.

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BahamutZ3RO

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2016, 03:32:19 PM »
There's no changes? Silvanesti have always had their own distinct language on Krynn. The Sithicans speak that exact same language.

Sithican elven is described as having a 'hissing' quality to it that makes it harder for Elves to understand, whereas Silvanesti elven is considered one of the most beautiful languages spoken.
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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2016, 03:41:31 PM »
There's no changes? Silvanesti have always had their own distinct language on Krynn. The Sithicans speak that exact same language.

Sithican elven is described as having a 'hissing' quality to it that makes it harder for Elves to understand, whereas Silvanesti elven is considered one of the most beautiful languages spoken.

Sibilant languages can be beautiful, depending on your preference!
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MAB77

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2016, 03:41:43 PM »
Sithican elven is described as having a 'hissing' quality to it that makes it harder for Elves to understand, whereas Silvanesti elven is considered one of the most beautiful languages spoken.

And that is a good ol' D&D discrepancy between products. Now... beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe that hissing sound is the definition of beauty for Krynnish folks? (Joking here, I don't buy that either).

Faced with such though you have to go with the authoritative source for the setting you play in, ie. Ravenloft. Hence, Silvanesti and Sithican is the same language and has a hissing sound.
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BahamutZ3RO

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2016, 03:51:31 PM »
Here's the example names given for both Sithicans and Silvanesti in their respective sourcebooks. It's pretty obvious that there's been some changes to their language.





So I guess the whole Sithican as a separate language thing makes sense, especially if we're going with all of the other dialects being their own languages as well. Now, this is just one example of something that has changed way too drastically to have happened over 50 years. The entire domain is riddled with these imperfections and errors and it makes me wonder whether it's supposed to be that way, and Sithicans are meant to discover or feel that they're not necessarily real, or if they're just oversights and the Dark Powers would have been more thorough in covering up their work.
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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2016, 03:53:39 PM »
You're reading way too much into it. They're the same language.

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MAB77

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2016, 04:00:59 PM »
Agreed with Blue. Beside, many of those Sylvanesti names do have that sibilant property if you say them aloud and they don't have to have S sound in all their names or words. Your solution may be as simple as Sithicans merely emphasing their S sounds further than most Sylvanesti would.
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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2016, 05:14:30 PM »
There's no changes? Silvanesti have always had their own distinct language on Krynn. The Sithicans speak that exact same language.

Sithican elven is described as having a 'hissing' quality to it that makes it harder for Elves to understand, whereas Silvanesti elven is considered one of the most beautiful languages spoken.

Have you ever heard France French? It's got a hissing, purring quality to it. I have no idea how they make that R noise, but they do. France French is also considered a really beautiful sounding language.

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2016, 10:09:47 AM »
As the grand lord jackass that built Sithicus and that has spend lots of hours delving into its insufferably boring lore, I can conclude, with absolute, boundless, and inscrutable certainty that Blue is correct in saying that the Silvanesti and Sithican tongues are the same. The latter's just a slightly different, more hissy dialect of the former.
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Olywynn

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2016, 06:30:00 PM »
To note:

Everyone entering Sithicus are eventually overcome by guilt, and recall memories where they acted poorly.  These memories only subside upon leaving.  Natives are not as affected by this.

ladylena

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2016, 06:36:45 PM »
To note:

Everyone entering Sithicus are eventually overcome by guilt, and recall memories where they acted poorly.  These memories only subside upon leaving.  Natives are not as affected by this.

If that's true, would be neat to have a script pop up to inform people.

Olywynn

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2016, 06:42:42 PM »
To note:

Everyone entering Sithicus are eventually overcome by guilt, and recall memories where they acted poorly.  These memories only subside upon leaving.  Natives are not as affected by this.

If that's true, would be neat to have a script pop up to inform people.

Outsiders also recieve a -1 to Initiative, Spot, Listen, and Search because they're so consumed by these memories of their shortcomings.  Natives don't get these downsides.  Natives also receive +1 vs Illusion while in Sithicus, because they've accepted their own shortcomings and are harder to fool.

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2016, 06:48:05 PM »
To note:

Everyone entering Sithicus are eventually overcome by guilt, and recall memories where they acted poorly.  These memories only subside upon leaving.  Natives are not as affected by this.

Is that Natives to Ravenloft or Natives ot Sithicus?

Olywynn

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2016, 06:49:24 PM »
To note:

Everyone entering Sithicus are eventually overcome by guilt, and recall memories where they acted poorly.  These memories only subside upon leaving.  Natives are not as affected by this.

Is that Natives to Ravenloft or Natives ot Sithicus?

Natives to Sithicus.

BahamutZ3RO

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Re: All things Sithican?
« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2016, 12:05:03 AM »
Alright, I need more clarification on Sithican elven.

Gazetteer 4 says that Sithican elves and Darkonian elves can communicate. Gazetteer 2 doesn't make any mention of a special or particular version of Elven that Darkonian elves would speak, so presumably they speak generic D&D elven. Doesn't that basically mean that, barring the occasional confusion of phrasing or dialect, just about any elf would understand Sithican elven? Why does Sithican even exist as a language in the language system? It's making things confusing for players.

As it stands, I'm content to let it play into the Sithican superiority thing and just mock elves for not being able to understand.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 12:28:47 AM by BahamutZ3RO »
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