Incoming change - tying enchanted gear to the target drained

[julienchab]

Kronos, I think the idea you have of a character attempting to equip someone else's enchanted item is very intriguing. I'd hate for an RP avenue of stealing an enchanted weapon to vanish because of the ownership script. Having these potentially very damaging events happen from the attempted equipping seem like a good risk penalty. The only thing I would consider differently is the use of Lore vs another skill. UMD might be appropriate because that skill lets a character equip items out of their alignment and class.

I love the idea too, since I would be sad if you couldn't steal enchanted gear anymore. I'm not too sure how such a system described by Kronos could be implemented though.

[Soul Suspect]

As for prizes for things like underbrawl what's the harm in asking a DM to make a grand prize item or pull one from the loot tables?

That I'm not a fan of idea like this though, if you want to give a prize I say go get it yourself IG. If you want a DM to give you something, at least work for it. Otherwise I feel it's cheating.

I think that's what he meant. There are any number of items in the palette, anyway, that would make good prizes. Hector's Wary Tread, Cloak of Elvenkind, Abber Moccasins, and so forth, or the equivalent in coin.

Yeah... it makes more sense   hehe  Anyway, I don't think a DM would give out item for free

Yeap exactly sorry i didnt word it better

And just quickly on removing enchanting entirely. If it was to be removed you would still have huge amounts of enchanted items floating around and you would only make the players that held them more powerfull as you wont be able to reach that point anymore. Lets say you take those items away from those characters to make it fair. DMs would then have to refund all the exp lost in creating the enchanted items, and if that PC was lvl 20 you cant refund the exp and they lose most likely their only armor (body helm and boots), weapon/s and possibly shield. Item exp is around 1 to 2 levels worth at level 14 that alot of Exp / hours / effort.

Far as i see this is the best course to keep everyone fair and satisfied.

[Delete Me]

Id like it taken a step further and have the items flagged as bound/quest, so they were not undroppable.  [Shrug] Ya damn sneakers.

[Iluvatar / Madness]

Kronos, I think the idea you have of a character attempting to equip someone else's enchanted item is very intriguing. I'd hate for an RP avenue of stealing an enchanted weapon to vanish because of the ownership script. Having these potentially very damaging events happen from the attempted equipping seem like a good risk penalty. The only thing I would consider differently is the use of Lore vs another skill. UMD might be appropriate because that skill lets a character equip items out of their alignment and class.

I love the idea too, since I would be sad if you couldn't steal enchanted gear anymore. I'm not too sure how such a system described by Kronos could be implemented though.

That system isn't really hard to implement if I understand well.

Though, I don't think it's necessary having a system like that. For the number of time a system like is going to be used, I think implementing it is a waste of time. In the end it'll take more time implementing the system then the total time the system will be use in a year. And personally, I would never risk losing a level to maybe have a new weapon.

Also the idea of not being able to steal them doesn't sound so bad since there is technically a part of your soul in an enchanted weapon, it's only normal that only the person who's soul is in the weapon can use the weapon.

[McNastea]

I'm pretty apathetic towards this myself, however-I keep seeing the notion that it's normal or makes sense that a weapon made from your soul (which, I believe it's been said in anotehr thread, is not actually what's being used fyi) should only be usable by you.

How do you figure? Cause I mean, we're talking about something that is just not possible and has no bearing to the real world. To say that it only makes sense or it's normal or whatever just... no. Don't. I don't mind that being the case, but I don't think trying to make that argument is at all logical and should not be used to justify it.

[Arawn]

Just want to reiterate. You can steal an enchanted weapon. You just can't use it.

[Iluvatar / Madness]

Just want to reiterate. You can steal an enchanted weapon. You just can't use it.

You can steal it, but what's the point in stealing something you can't use? I think that's the issue many people are bringing up here.

[herkles]

Just want to reiterate. You can steal an enchanted weapon. You just can't use it.

What is the point in stealing something if it is worthless to use.

[FinalHeaven]

Just want to reiterate. You can steal an enchanted weapon. You just can't use it.

What is the point in stealing something if it is worthless to use.

Hold it hostage for obscene amounts of gold?  I'm sure some players might simply go burn more xp for a new item but others aren't going to want to lose their levels so quickly.

[Dusk]

Hold it hostage for obscene amounts of gold?  I'm sure some players might simply go burn more xp for a new item but others aren't going to want to lose their levels so quickly.

WWED

What Would Elias Do?

All you have to ask yourself, when it comes to stealing, guys.

[LeviShultz]

Something I thought of that might need a bit of clarification. If when this change is implemented all the enchanted gear is bound to its current holder, what happens to the XP when put in the reimbursement for legacy enchanted gear that used a different source as its battery than the current owner. Will the gear still recognize the person who originally enchanted it even though it is bound to someone else with regards to its use? Or will the current holder now be recognized as the "battery" and be refuended xp they may not have earned in the first place?

Basically, I'm concerned about the flip side of this problem, where enchanted gear could be put into the reimbursement and used to level characters that never really should have been that high.

[Arawn]

This is already automatically blocked by the refunder, so no worries!

[Ophie Kitty]

But the sad reality is that this has opened for some exploits as some people use retired or even long dead characters to drain XP from to make items for other characters. It has also at times become a balance issue even when done fully legitimately. Therefore, as per the next update, you will find that newly made enchanted gear can no longer be worn by anyone other than the person that was used as the drain target when making the item. They will effectively be tied to the person that sacrificed XP to have the item made.

It's not just a matter of old chars used as batteries but also a matter of balance. These are the most powerful items but they end up being gifted to low levels, where it skews the balance. We had set a minimum level limit to crafting to prevent that but with gifting, this limit ended up being circumvented.

Such change will make it so lower levels can't get enchanted gear; they will also become much rarer and more unique since people won't be able to chain make them.

 
I wanted to throw my two cents at why I feel the suggestion is poor, but I agree something needs to be done about this. I feel like the new system concept is merely a punishment to the community rather then dealing with the actual problem of muling and tag teaming. If people are using old or even dead characters as XP banks, delete the items and treat them the same way you would treat someone who toggled the transfer script; punish and give them a warning if its their first time. I'm afraid the new system isn't going to do anything to punish the people who have already made an exploit out of this (unless some of those people were already caught.)

As a side note, I've been a player who has been in the merchanting scene off and on for about five years now, I've been annoyed with how much undetected muling and tag-teaming I've noticed between players.. simply without the proof of origin to be able to make it a report-worthy case. Some people have even tried to use me as a third-party to purchase gear with high levels for their friend's new characters, or even trying to arrange to have items delivered to to a new character of theirs. Its been the worse I've seen since I've started playing again. It happens with enchanted gear, and it happens with the regular everyday items on the loot tables too. Its pure and simple people, don't cheat, It really ruins things for the rest of us when they Dev's are forced to make changes like this.


 

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

... Some people have even tried to use me as a third-party to purchase gear with high levels for their friend's new characters, or even trying to arrange to have items delivered to to a new character of theirs. Its been the worse I've seen since I've started playing again. It happens with enchanted gear, and it happens with the regular everyday items on the loot tables too. Its pure and simple people, don't cheat, It really ruins things for the rest of us when they Dev's are forced to make changes like this.

Well, that highlights another part of the problem - we can't always say for certain whether passing on items to low levels is meta-gaming or unfair, but given the power of the enchanted items it becomes very unbalanced if lower levels start to run around with that.

[Ophie Kitty]

Well, that highlights another part of the problem - we can't always say for certain whether passing on items to low levels is meta-gaming or unfair, but given the power of the enchanted items it becomes very unbalanced if lower levels start to run around with that.

I suppose that goes into my concern about what is going to be done with the items that have already been pilfered in such a way? The new change might fix the problem, but I suppose my concern and disagreement for the issue is that it does nothing to the people who might have already exploited this.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

Well, that highlights another part of the problem - we can't always say for certain whether passing on items to low levels is meta-gaming or unfair, but given the power of the enchanted items it becomes very unbalanced if lower levels start to run around with that.

I suppose that goes into my concern about what is going to be done with the items that have already been pilfered in such a way? The new change might fix the problem, but I suppose my concern and disagreement for the issue is that it does nothing to the people who might have already exploited this.

We have acted on certain cases where the abuse was blatant, but again, a lot of it is in the grey area and we should give people the benefit of the doubt.

[Strigoi]

also consider that all stories eventually come to an end, so it will balance itself out in the long run. the nice thing about this change is that players are not losing their items, just the method of acquiring them will be different. DMs cant always be there to monitor these things, so personally i like the change, takes a small load off our shoulders.

[A normal snake]

A note to players organizing the Underbrawl:
I know you have an enchanted item you were planning to award the winner and it's in your list of prizes. Given you made that plan before this change was announced, I'll do what I can to make sure the winner is able to receive the prize.

[Tarmikos1]

A note to players organizing the Underbrawl:
I know you have an enchanted item you were planning to award the winner and it's in your list of prizes. Given you made that plan before this change was announced, I'll do what I can to make sure the winner is able to receive the prize.

Thanks Ophis that would be amazing

[booksarefun666]

As someone that owns a +4 enchanted leather vest early on (level ~8-10) I can get behind this idea. They're really, really powerful pieces even if finding someone to enchant for you will cost hundreds of thousands of coins.

I wasn't aware people heckling high levels to be their batteries OOCly was a problem though (but then again I never had a character last to 14).

[DM Brimstone]

A note to players organizing the Underbrawl:
I know you have an enchanted item you were planning to award the winner and it's in your list of prizes. Given you made that plan before this change was announced, I'll do what I can to make sure the winner is able to receive the prize.

Thanks so much, Ophis! We appreciate the help.

[Mayvind]

This change has My APPROVAL !