Author Topic: Steelsmithing Nerfed?  (Read 3423 times)

INSTINCT92

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Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« on: January 11, 2016, 03:16:13 PM »
So, someone crafted full thick chittin plate.. it has +1 ac... and less weight.
Steel plate has +1 ac and weighs more.. It used to be that chittin didn't have the +1
so that it was a choice between either 1 extra AC, or carrying less weight...
With this change there is practically no choice, and seriously makes smithing feel nerfed? I mean who would choose it?
Especially how long it takes to get through the craft reliably as it is.. is this intentional or?

INSTINCT92

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2016, 03:22:17 PM »
This was using ancient dire bear leather. However I tested it with the same one on steel and it's basically identical except in weight.. So it doesn't add more to the steel, but does the chittin for some reason?

Syl

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2016, 03:24:10 PM »
I would.. though if I recall Chitin armor gave +1 vs bludgeoning and slashing.. where steel gave a full +1.

However say they changed it and both give +1... someone might not like the thought of wearing a bug shell.. to soft and unreliable.

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Syl

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2016, 03:26:20 PM »
and it should still effect the steel... I think the Ancient dire bear hide gives.. what +1 to piercing? my fullplate enchanted gives a big bonus to ac against slashing as well as the natural AC it already has from enchantment... been a moment since I been on the character though. I'll have to double check when I get home

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Tycat

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2016, 03:31:30 PM »
I don't think this would be considered a nerf to Steel smithing, but maybe a boost to chitin smithing? Could this be an oversight? Though my question is, since the lining determines the other variable bonuses, do you use a leather lining in Chitin like you do with steel? because that would make steel superior still.

Syl

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2016, 03:35:30 PM »
Yes the leather is the same use.. the only thing changing is metal being replaces with chitin. so for fullplate it still takes 8-9 primary { chitin or metal} and 1 patch of leather.

Edit: BUT if I remember correctly. Chitin only gives a + 1 ac vs Bludgening and slashing... The patch is giving a +1 vs piercing.

So for steel it has the natural +1 to all and ah extra +1 vs piercing.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 03:37:14 PM by Syl »

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Tycat

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2016, 03:39:22 PM »
Yes the leather is the same use.. the only thing changing is metal being replaces with chitin. so for fullplate it still takes 8-9 primary { chitin or metal} and 1 patch of leather.

Edit: BUT if I remember correctly. Chitin only gives a + 1 ac vs Bludgening and slashing... The patch is giving a +1 vs piercing.

So for steel it has the natural +1 to all and ah extra +1 vs piercing.
ahh, Bingo. I bet that's the deal, then. and i don't think it's a +1, but a resistance right? Do you have a screen shot of the armor to compare it? I'll see if I have any on my characters.

Syl

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2016, 03:42:46 PM »
My main Sylvonas has enchanted steel fullplate lines with ancient dire bear fur. But I'm at work ATM and wont be home for... ah few more hours. But I think it is somewhere like...  +2 ac +3 vs piercing... +4 fortitude +3 disc +1 uni save and 25% fire vulnerability... hehe try wearing that thing in the fire cave in Hazlan.. I Call it... Hard mode!!!

I'll get ah screen shot once I get home and post it unless someone beats me to it. but we would need ah set of chitin armor without the same hide ... I have two full plates worg and my enchanted both steel.. so could use that for steel linning at least.

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INSTINCT92

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2016, 03:43:39 PM »
Not sure the point was clear. They are identical, except in weight using the same lining. That is a boost that does kinda make steel pointless...
I mean, the difference has always been weight over ac or vice versa. Here to clarify.




Tycat

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2016, 04:04:16 PM »
yeah they are identical. this looks like an oversight!

Jeebs

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2016, 04:10:12 PM »
Regular chitin only gives the weight reduction... thick chitin gives AC and if I'm not mistaken the weight reduction is smaller than regular chitin. Not sure if it is an oversight, but I  thought I'd throw it out there in case that was where the confusion came from.

Syl

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2016, 04:24:56 PM »
Chitin was only suppose to give a + to bludgeoning and slashing.. seeing these I think it wasn't meant to happen and just needs to be corrected. but would need a DM to verify.

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Pagliacci

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2016, 04:46:57 PM »
40% total weight on regular chitin.

I think this is an oversight as well, thick chitin should not be equal to steel IMO./

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2016, 04:49:07 PM »
Thick Chitin gives +1 AC vs Bludg/Slash and 60% reduction,
Chitin gives 40% reduction,
Steel gives +1 AC and 80% reduction,
Ancient Dire Bear or Crocodile leather patches give 2 AC vs Piercing.

TC armour like the above is going to have a flat +1 AC because of the 2 Pierce from the lining. The TC itself isn't giving extra AC, it's just being rounded all together.

In every single other instance, TC and C are going to have less AC than steel, they are not equal. Steel is still useful, I've got just as many characters with Steel/Troll armour as I do with chitin armour.

gainreduction

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2016, 05:42:37 PM »
I think it's a bit silly.  :shock:

Steel should have more protection than chitin.

Jeebs

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2016, 05:46:31 PM »
I think it's a bit silly.  :shock:

Steel should have more protection than chitin.

It does, technically, going by Qwerty's post.

Sidhel

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2016, 09:45:31 PM »
I think it's a bit silly.  :shock:

Steel should have more protection than chitin.

I feel like chitin's advantage should have been summarized with just giving it reduced weights, I know when i was looking at Hard Boiled Leather vs Chitin Leather to get enchanted, the differences were +4AC / 25 pounds, or +2 AC & +4 Piercing, 8 Lbs.   With a server that pretty much allows you get mimic the +AC with spells, but carrying compacity is scarce, I've rarely seen situations where steel has the potential to out perform. 25-35 pounds difference in armor is huge.


The other issue basically being Chitin was added in later, as well as the enchanting system, so the large combination of Crafting + Chitin + Enchanting, made a lot of imbalances.
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Syl

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2016, 08:08:08 AM »
Again as many others have stated this could be ah over sight or ah mistake. again we would need DMs to confirm. could just be ah simple bug, Someone go post it in the bug section or mention this in the bug section I'm never good at it lol

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MJ_Johansson

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2016, 02:28:57 PM »
I think Qwerty explained it quite well that its just because they used that specific lining that it got the full +1 on chitin, because it gives the pierce AC that would otherwise be lacking on chitin..
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Syl

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2016, 02:33:00 PM »
I think Qwerty explained it quite well that its just because they used that specific lining that it got the full +1 on chitin, because it gives the pierce AC that would otherwise be lacking on chitin..

I want to think this MJ,, I really do. but the fact it is giving ah solid +1 and not showing the AC individually like it should since that is what Thick chitin armor does... It might be ah bug. because the patch gives ah +2 vs piercing. and the chitin again would only be ah +1 vs bludgeoning and slashing.

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MJ_Johansson

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2016, 02:34:54 PM »
Yes
But if you add +1vs slash +1 vs bludge +1 vs pierce on the same item, that -is- a full +1 ac.
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Syl

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2016, 02:56:38 PM »
but it is 1+1..... extra +2 it isn't even adding the piercing.  if that was the case should just be ah +1 ac vs piercing on the thick chitin not the +2.

IF that is the case, can easily be show by someone making another set of fullplate thick chitin with any kind of hide excluding bear and croc just so we can see for sure.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 02:59:20 PM by Syl »

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MJ_Johansson

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2016, 03:49:22 PM »
Incorrect, though. if it was +1 ac vs piercing, it wouldnt stack over the normal +1 ac it already has. +1vs slash +1 vs bludge and +2 vs pierce still becomes +1 ac +2 vs pierce, in effect.
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Syl

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2016, 07:50:28 AM »
grrrr... must be me then because I just cannot wrap my head around how that should work.. .I can see where your coming from, the math just.. doesn't make sense to me as to WHY it is doing that.. it looks more like it is ah solid 1.. and then ah extra +2 like steel. not... 1+1+1 + 1vs piercing.

But again I think the best solutions is for someone to make thick chitin fullplate with different linning and see what the numbers are.

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modderpunk

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Re: Steelsmithing Nerfed?
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2016, 09:00:23 AM »
In this case it is exactly like steel. +1 ac, +2 vs piercing is exactly the same as +1 vs slashing and bludgening, + 2 vs piercing because the plusses in the first way of writing do not stack. In this case the lining adds more favorably to the chitin then to the steel. If the lining would have added +2 vs slashing the end result would have been +2 vs slashing, +1 vs bludgening for the chitin and + 1 ac, + 2 vs slashing for the steel. In this case both materials benefit equaly from the lining.

By the way i am not an expert on this and am only posting this to clarify what people posted before. It does seem to make sense however.



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