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Author Topic: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)  (Read 7665 times)

LivingWasteland

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2015, 12:48:32 AM »
I like it. Beats standing around Port or the Skirts waiting for someone to come along.

A concern I saw was it staying on when people go into super secret RP. . .well, that's personal accountability and we shouldn't get rid of a great system idea because of individual forgetfulness :P


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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2015, 06:26:34 AM »
I really like it personally.  I love the idea of finding roleplay through this system, making and meeting new friends and building the community.  But I don't like the idea of it saying where the player is.  I think a simple alert saying that the person is looking for either dungeoning or serious RP and then following up with a tell could be really great for improving the community communication as a whole, bring us all together.

How you deliver the tell could be interesting too.  You could just go ooc and say something like:

//Hey there, I'm out and about here, and looking for some roleplay - care to catch up somewhere?

Or you could go more story telling, and do the following, via tell.

*The armoured figure stepped off the caravan, as it ground to a halt, looking around for a moment to gather his bearings, eyeing the willow girded pool nearby, the Vistani caravan captain winking at him in a mocking fashion as he approached.*  'Welcome to Barovia, fellow.  Take care'.  *With a glint of a gold tooth and a wicked grin, he stepped away.*

Long winded, but it tells the other player that the person is in Barovia, probably at Tser pool, and possibly, maybe, you could bump into each other.  You just have a better idea of who to send that invitation to, with this tool.

Feronius

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2015, 09:32:01 AM »
If you have a character that is involved in super secret RP a lot, I would choose to leave the feature permanently turned off on that PC.

I would love to be able to use it on all my other characters though, preferably with (somewhat) exact locations. I have used the MPC version in the past and, depending on the area, it really does not narrow down the locations at all. It works well for MPCs, but you can still end up looking for people for hours and never bump into anyone.


I think that is, at least for me, the biggest turn off about PotM. Almost everything requires such a big time investment. It really puts me off from playing here altogether when I already know I do not have seas of time or the time it would take to achieve anything memorable and worthwhile.
If this system lets me save up to a few hours (easily) each week that is normally spend trying to locate people to RP with, then I am all for it.

I am not really opposed to having to send players a tell first, but I thought the idea behind a system like this was that you would no longer have to resort to constant OoC communication to find people willing to RP? You already know where the players are and that they are up for RP, additional OoC communication feels a bit unnecessary. I would prefer walking by and doing the emote then, it just feels more spontaneous. Especially if there are multiple players gathered in one zone it just cuts out a ton of OoC chatter and allows everyone to focus on simply RPing. I don't know if other people feel the same about this though.
The exception would be if I see someone is in a dungeon area. Then I would consider it polite and would feel obliged to send a tell first.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 09:40:45 AM by Feronius »
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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2015, 09:52:29 AM »
In my mind, at least, there wouldn't be any rules associated with the system. The system is a thing unto itself. If you don't want people to RP with you that you don't know, well, don't include yourself in the system.

Sending a tell might be the polite thing to do, but making it a hard and fast rule is not something I would support personally.

I mean, on a scale I would say "yea sure send a tell", but I wouldn't tell you you HAD to.

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2015, 10:59:46 AM »
Perhaps it could be done the same way as what we have in place for (A)MPCs. Shows the locations and how many people are in there, but not giving names.

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2015, 01:59:48 PM »
I don't see how I can say no to this if you can just opt out when you want your SECRET CLANDESTINE MEETING because I've been in a situation where a place is empty and there was thirty or more people on one server.

 Just knowing where the majority of the server is at the time would help.

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2015, 02:06:58 PM »
I don't see how I can say no to this if you can just opt out when you want your SECRET CLANDESTINE MEETING because I've been in a situation where a place is empty and there was thirty or more people on one server.

 Just knowing where the majority of the server is at the time would help.

Exactly. I understand that most people are on here for roleplay, so obviously it's not like it's thin on the ground, but it's not a bad idea to have a system of people who are actively looking for RP.

I sort of misspoke on my reply yesterday about it (damn my distraction with work. why can't RP be fulltime?). What's most important, to me, is knowing if someone's 'up' to starting an RP right now, or to a new person joining in on an RP session in-progress.

Maybe a character is in the middle of crafting and can't talk, maybe they're finally having a heart-to-heart with someone that they don't want interrupted, or maybe they're plotting to kill you and don't want you to know where they are. There are a million reasons why having it would do well, each one different for every person, but only as an optional setting (which many people have already repeated in this thread, a lot).
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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2015, 02:07:35 PM »
In my mind, at least, there wouldn't be any rules associated with the system. The system is a thing unto itself. If you don't want people to RP with you that you don't know, well, don't include yourself in the system.


This is an unwanted side-effect of having a system like this:  I am perfectly willing to RP with anyone I cross paths with, but I don't necessarily want players to be able to locate my characters in a meta way (because that thwarts good secret RP or PvP that may be developing).

Your method assumes that someone not "opting in" is somehow not interested in RP.  That is not the case. 

I don't necessarily mind an MPC-style system that let's you see where concentrations of players are located, since that helps go to where the population is, and improves your chances of running into RP opportunities.  Knowing that there are 20 people around Vallaki helps narrow down the areas a player should be roaming without giving away plot locations or secret rendezvous sites (and there aren't that many logical locations per area that people will tend to congregate anyway, so no one should be wandering too long before running into people). 

However, a system that lets you track down a specific player or character to a specific location is not necessarily supportive of RP any more than it is supportive of griefing or stalking or some other immersion breaking activity.  Moreover, such a system could be counter-productive to the extent it encourages players to simply run with the same clique of people over and over, and not interact with strangers. 

Knowing where the crowds are makes sense to me, so long as the locations are not too specific (like the MPC sytsem).  I would be a bit leery of knowing exact numbers of people at a location --- knowing there is  only 1 person in a specific location could be sufficient identification by itself to jeopardize a plot or secret intrigue going on.  Being able to locate specific individuals seems like it might trigger the law of unintended consequences.


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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2015, 02:15:20 PM »
In my mind, at least, there wouldn't be any rules associated with the system. The system is a thing unto itself. If you don't want people to RP with you that you don't know, well, don't include yourself in the system.


This is an unwanted side-effect of having a system like this:  I am perfectly willing to RP with anyone I cross paths with, but I don't necessarily want players to be able to locate my characters in a meta way (because that thwarts good secret RP or PvP that may be developing).

Your method assumes that someone not "opting in" is somehow not interested in RP.  That is not the case. 

I don't necessarily mind an MPC-style system that let's you see where concentrations of players are located, since that helps go to where the population is, and improves your chances of running into RP opportunities.  Knowing that there are 20 people around Vallaki helps narrow down the areas a player should be roaming without giving away plot locations or secret rendezvous sites (and there aren't that many logical locations per area that people will tend to congregate anyway, so no one should be wandering too long before running into people). 

However, a system that lets you track down a specific player or character to a specific location is not necessarily supportive of RP any more than it is supportive of griefing or stalking or some other immersion breaking activity.  Moreover, such a system could be counter-productive to the extent it encourages players to simply run with the same clique of people over and over, and not interact with strangers. 

Knowing where the crowds are makes sense to me, so long as the locations are not too specific (like the MPC sytsem).  I would be a bit leery of knowing exact numbers of people at a location --- knowing there is  only 1 person in a specific location could be sufficient identification by itself to jeopardize a plot or secret intrigue going on.  Being able to locate specific individuals seems like it might trigger the law of unintended consequences.

BUt that makes the system useless, because "20 players in barovia" is 20 players over over t wo dozen major zones and what, thrice to quadruple that number of sub-zones such as inns, banks, bars, clubs, etc.?

Also, this would have no effect on cliques, because the cliques would simply not bother using the system. They're already going to send a /tell to those who are "in" where they're going to be.

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2015, 02:20:44 PM »
I understand what you are saying, and I think some sort of "population detector" is helpful, but I don't think people are trying to make an effort to understand what I am saying, which I guess can be summed up in one sentence:

"I am happy to RP with anyone I run across, but I don't want anyone meta-locating my characters"

Opting out of the system solves my second point, but if I opt-out of this system, players like you are going to assume that I am not interested in RP, which is false and undermines my first point.


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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2015, 02:25:24 PM »
Why not place it in the OOC lounge area? this is after all an OOC tool to figure out where people are to roleplay. that way the main way to figure it out would be to go to an inn room and go to the ooc lounge.  the point with the MPC system is that it is vague.

When you read barovia - vallaki - 20, what you are reading is of all the areas(including the dungoens) in vallaki. It is a rather vague system.

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2015, 02:28:00 PM »
I understand what you are saying, and I think some sort of "population detector" is helpful, but I don't think people are trying to make an effort to understand what I am saying, which I guess can be summed up in one sentence:

"I am happy to RP with anyone I run across, but I don't want anyone meta-locating my characters"

Opting out of the system solves my second point, but if I opt-out of this system, players like you are going to assume that I am not interested in RP, which is false and undermines my first point.

If you opt out of the system, then I assume you're not interested in actively being sought out. That's all. And from what I've seen on the server, that's basically what's going down anyway, but not always by choice.

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2015, 02:32:16 PM »
Alternatively, I've noticed that a lot of people advocating for this system (myself included) are newer or less experienced players that haven't gotten a hold of the system well.

Maybe a mentor system? Not so much an actual script, but maybe even something as simple as a forum post where older players can meet new people and get them started?

Now that I actually write this out, I've realized that a system like this is already in place... kind of. We have the Welcome Mat thread, and in my own experience I ran into another player right as I reached the arrival map who guided me around IC-ly. It was actually really embarrassing and nerve wracking at the time since I had no idea what I was doing then, but I appreciate it (and hate myself, because I've forgotten the man's name...I think Kashia still owes him money.)

My response is getting off topic but my point is, maybe there are other ways to fullfill this need, and maybe we already have them. WE just need to be more conscious about using them. Be more of a community, yadda yadda.

Also re: Herkles. The OOC lounge actually sounds like a good idea! It's not like people use it much now, anyway...
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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2015, 05:16:20 PM »
The system that is availible for the (A)MPC is a bit more specific than just 20 in barovia. It actually lists the map they are on, for the most part. So like, you might see "3 in Vallaki sewers" "20 in POrt-a-Lucine" "1 in Edrigan" "4 in Krofburg" etc, so rather than listing "Edrigan - Lucy Mcgee" it provides some information but not all the information which could be used for metagaming. Especially if you have a character who is being hunted.

A system that displays your name and location can be risky. Where as, one that provides the amount of people in each area is great. I mean if you are always looking for someone in particular you can just send them a tell and ask.

The idea to opt out is nice, but eventually it might become seen as "so and so isn't opted to display their location, so they must be wanting to avoid rp" when in fact they might have it opted out to protect their character from metagaming hunters.

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2015, 05:23:11 PM »
I'm working on a proposal dev-side; if it's approved, it'd work something like this:

@lfrp to opt in/out of it
@lfrp list to display a list of people interested in RP and their location (see below)
@lfrp loc to hide/show your location to others; if you choose to hide your location, people won't see in which area you are but you won't be able to see where others are either (goes both ways)

It'd work with emotes and you'd get a reminder when you log in that you are in LFRP mode.

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2015, 05:25:43 PM »
I'm working on a proposal dev-side; if it's approved, it'd work something like this:

@lfrp to opt in/out of it
@lfrp list to display a list of people interested in RP and their location (see below)
@lfrp loc to hide/show your location to others; if you choose to hide your location, people won't see in which area you are but you won't be able to see where others are either (goes both ways)

It'd work with emotes and you'd get a reminder when you log in that you are in LFRP mode.

Assuming I'm reading this right that means you can choose to be on the list without giving away your location, yes? So a best of both worlds option, in my opinion.
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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2015, 05:26:54 PM »
Quote
Assuming I'm reading this right that means you can choose to be on the list without giving away your location, yes? So a best of both worlds option, in my opinion.

Yeah, you can choose to be there without displaying your location but at the same time you won't be able to see where others are.

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2015, 05:54:16 PM »
I'm working on a proposal dev-side; if it's approved, it'd work something like this:

@lfrp to opt in/out of it
@lfrp list to display a list of people interested in RP and their location (see below)
@lfrp loc to hide/show your location to others; if you choose to hide your location, people won't see in which area you are but you won't be able to see where others are either (goes both ways)

It'd work with emotes and you'd get a reminder when you log in that you are in LFRP mode.

Assuming I'm reading this right that means you can choose to be on the list without giving away your location, yes? So a best of both worlds option, in my opinion.

Yeah, you can choose to be there without displaying your location but at the same time you won't be able to see where others are.

That third command honestly makes no sense to me. If you do not want your location to be shown, just turn the feature off?
I'd think that allowing players to put their names on the list without revealing any information would only add chat spam for those that do actively use the feature.

If you want to see the names of all the characters that are online, you would just open up the player list.
The fact you are logged in on an RP server makes it a given you are up for RP. Isn't it against the server rules not to be? Unless you are in an OoC area, of course.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 06:03:51 PM by Feronius »
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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2015, 10:27:47 PM »
Im fairly sure the idea of players (non MPC) with this system got shutdown before because it took away immersion, sort of why we cant see "whos playing" before you log in.
Maybe instead of having it available when ever you like as a typing in command, maybe have a "noticeboard" or "scrying orb" in the OOC lounge that did the same as @locate would please both parties?

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2015, 10:29:32 PM »
I'm working on a proposal dev-side; if it's approved, it'd work something like this:

@lfrp to opt in/out of it
@lfrp list to display a list of people interested in RP and their location (see below)
@lfrp loc to hide/show your location to others; if you choose to hide your location, people won't see in which area you are but you won't be able to see where others are either (goes both ways)

It'd work with emotes and you'd get a reminder when you log in that you are in LFRP mode.

Assuming I'm reading this right that means you can choose to be on the list without giving away your location, yes? So a best of both worlds option, in my opinion.

Yeah, you can choose to be there without displaying your location but at the same time you won't be able to see where others are.

That third command honestly makes no sense to me. If you do not want your location to be shown, just turn the feature off?
I'd think that allowing players to put their names on the list without revealing any information would only add chat spam for those that do actively use the feature.

If you want to see the names of all the characters that are online, you would just open up the player list.
The fact you are logged in on an RP server makes it a given you are up for RP. Isn't it against the server rules not to be? Unless you are in an OoC area, of course.

Perhaps with this system you can go ooc where-ever you want without anyone stoping you as you aren't interested in rp. after all you didn't opt in for rp.

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2015, 10:59:47 PM »
That third command honestly makes no sense to me. If you do not want your location to be shown, just turn the feature off?
I'd think that allowing players to put their names on the list without revealing any information would only add chat spam for those that do actively use the feature.

If you want to see the names of all the characters that are online, you would just open up the player list.
The fact you are logged in on an RP server makes it a given you are up for RP. Isn't it against the server rules not to be? Unless you are in an OoC area, of course.

It's very likely that many players online don't want to hook up for roleplay because they are already roleplaying with people, they are off adventuring, they are spending hours crafting, they are in some secretive RP, etc, so they won't go into LFRP mode.

People that toggle it are interested in RP; they may not want their location broadcasted for metagaming concerns (a legit concern unfortunately). It'll make it easier to differentiate those who are actively looking for RP (and to whom you can send tells) and those who aren't because they're occupied or antisocial or whatever.

And nothing stops someone who's hiding his location to change that setting to see where others are.

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #46 on: December 28, 2015, 11:11:26 PM »
Quote
Perhaps with this system you can go ooc where-ever you want without anyone stoping you as you aren't interested in rp. after all you didn't opt in for rp.

Once again herkles, your passive aggressive attitude is unwelcome. If you can't be constructive, don't post.

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2015, 11:17:59 PM »
If time is to be spent on this, I would suggest the @lfrp opt in/out without a location component.

My personal opinion is that the location component introduces potential issues within a PvP server.  I see potential issues where people who are looking for location privacy have to coordinate ooc whenever they are travelling with others.  I see potential issues where a player doesn't know they need to be cautious about their location, but it is used against them.  It opens up another method of metagaming which will end up as arguments put in lap of the cc and dms.  Where possible, I prefer to see programming implemented that limits this kind of issue (rather than creating more).

I also don't think it achieves the goal, which is to help people find and engage in more rp across the community.  My experience with this kind of system is that people don't use it consistently, so you end up spending time chasing peoples locations when they are 'looking for rp' only to find out ic that their status is simply not updated.

I would make the @lfrp a toggle between the following (except phrased better):
RP in game only / Open to tells to coordinate RP meet up

This allows everyone insight into who doesn't want their immersion/rp interrupted, and who is comfortable with being messaged for ooc coordination. 

This does have the disadvantage of breaking immersion for some players who would be happy to have their character stumbled upon via published location, but don't like having to ruin the surprise and interrupt their focus with tells.  To me, the balance of pros and cons still weighs in favor of avoiding the location level detail.

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2015, 11:28:40 PM »
Quote
Perhaps with this system you can go ooc where-ever you want without anyone stoping you as you aren't interested in rp. after all you didn't opt in for rp.

Once again herkles, your passive aggressive attitude is unwelcome. If you can't be constructive, don't post.

My point is thus. are we not all looking for rp here? If you opt out, is that not a signil to others that you don't want to rp, on an rp server? This is an rp server and as such are we not all wanting rp. if everyone is in and no one is in the result is the same.  Personally I don't see the issue with the MPC system, if it was in the ooc lounge.

You could just make it even vaguer, not really helpful though.

barovia - western half(vallaki, krezk, midway and in between) - 30
barovia - eastern half(everything past the chocking mists) - 5
dementlieu - 15
hazlan - 5
har'akir - 8
mists(including the camp) 20

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Re: LFRP Opt In System (I'm bad at names)
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2015, 11:36:47 PM »
If time is to be spent on this, I would suggest the @lfrp opt in/out without a location component.

My personal opinion is that the location component introduces potential issues within a PvP server.  I see potential issues where people who are looking for location privacy have to coordinate ooc whenever they are travelling with others.  I see potential issues where a player doesn't know they need to be cautious about their location, but it is used against them.  It opens up another method of metagaming which will end up as arguments put in lap of the cc and dms.  Where possible, I prefer to see programming implemented that limits this kind of issue (rather than creating more).

I also don't think it achieves the goal, which is to help people find and engage in more rp across the community.  My experience with this kind of system is that people don't use it consistently, so you end up spending time chasing peoples locations when they are 'looking for rp' only to find out ic that their status is simply not updated.

I would make the @lfrp a toggle between the following (except phrased better):
RP in game only / Open to tells to coordinate RP meet up

This allows everyone insight into who doesn't want their immersion/rp interrupted, and who is comfortable with being messaged for ooc coordination. 

This does have the disadvantage of breaking immersion for some players who would be happy to have their character stumbled upon via published location, but don't like having to ruin the surprise and interrupt their focus with tells.  To me, the balance of pros and cons still weighs in favor of avoiding the location level detail.

I can understand the concerns, but the problem is approaching someone oocly without knowing them for most people is kind of a hard thing to do. Sending that /tell is difficult because what if they don't want to talk to? There are players, I am sure, who never roleplay in public, who never leave their gruop of friends; i'm fine with that.

But there's people like me on the other hand, who are always willing to engage with new people 90% of the time. I think this is why EO is offering a hybrid as a compromise, since his system incorporates both elements while defaulting to yours, while allowing my position to be toggled.


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