Improved Critical - No Dwarven Waraxe?

[MatticusCaesar]

I poked through the forums looking for another reference to this but found nothing.

The Improved Critical feat's weapon list does not appear to have Dwarven Waraxe available.  Is this a bug, a design oversight, or just removed for some other reason?

I realize I posted this in the wrong forum... please move it to wherever it belongs.

[Jeebs]

Do you have exotic weapon proficiency or is your character a dwarf and has proficiency with the axe by default? I could be wrong, but I believe that if you don't have the actual weapon proficiency feat, you won't get access to dwarven war axe feats even though you are able to wield them.

EDIT: Yep. Here you go, at the bottom it confirms what I just said.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Dwarven_waraxe

[HellsPanda]

Considering Doubleaxe is showing, he has Exotic feat, so waraxe should be showing. Are you sure you do not already have imp crit Waraxe?

[Jeebs]

Considering Doubleaxe is showing, he has Exotic feat, so waraxe should be showing. Are you sure you do not already have imp crit Waraxe?

I totally missed that, heh... but it's still something to point out in case others don't know.

[McNastea]

my dwarf has it, so dunno what the issue is of course, he gets dwarven waraxe without the need for exotic-maybe this has something to do with it?

[MatticusCaesar]

The character is a halfling and does indeed have the exotic weapon feat.  She's been able to wield a dwarven waraxe since level 2.  She only just turned level 8, so this is the first time she can take Improved Critical (requires AB +8), so no, she does not already have Improved Critical for Dwarven Waraxe.

Additionally, I scrolled to the bottom of the weapon list and verified there is no listing for just plain "Waraxe" (just in case it was abbreviated).

[Syl]

I'm going to have to look for this on my Runt that uses Dwarven Waraxes also. though I think I seen it before.

[MatticusCaesar]

I've tried logging out/in a few times and restarting the NWN client, just to see if this was any minor hiccup, but no dice.

Dwarven Waraxe still does not appear in the list.

[MatticusCaesar]

OK - I have made a discovery:  The problem, for whatever reason, is class-selection related:

If I choose Barbarian as my 8th level, Dwarven Waraxe does NOT appear in the Improved Critical Weapon List!

If I choose Ranger as my 8th level, Dwarven Waraxe does NOT appear in the Improved Critical Weapon List!

If I choose Fighter as my 8th level, Dwarven Waraxe DOES appear in the Improved Critical Weapon List!  Winner winner chicken dinner!

I tried a couple of other classes as well, but the Improved Critical feat is not available as they don't improve my AB to +8  (I can't select Paladin to test since Bjarna isn't LG)

So I guess the question now is why is Dwarven Waraxe only available in Improved Critical weapon list for Fighters?

[Jeebs]

Is it possible that your BAB isn't hitting +8 unless you take fighter? Could see if a DM could give you a temporary level to see if it pops up on Barbarian and the other classes at level 9 to test it out. I know mechanically they are supposed to have BAB +8 by that level, but that's the only suggestion I can think of. If you click on the link below and look at the second table, it begs the question as to whether or not Barbarian and Ranger are being considered middle-class.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Base_attack_bonus

[MatticusCaesar]

The 4 "warrior" classes (fighter, ranger, paladin, barbarian) are all in the combat class category so should all advance +1 AB every level.

Something seems amiss to me here...

[Claymora]

I imagine something is wrong with one of the .2da files .... maybe, dunno... but that'd be my guess, since the feats you can select are drawn from a list in one of those .2da's... I think.

[functor]

A check I made reveals that you can take this feat at level nine of your barbarian.

I would think the issue is the character of that feat at eighth level --- it is particular to the server, not existing in original settings, and the feat on level 9 is 'normal'. Probably that can be fixed, then, or you could postpone taking this improved critical until level nine.

[MatticusCaesar]

Is it possible that your BAB isn't hitting +8 unless you take fighter? Could see if a DM could give you a temporary level to see if it pops up on Barbarian and the other classes at level 9 to test it out. I know mechanically they are supposed to have BAB +8 by that level, but that's the only suggestion I can think of. If you click on the link below and look at the second table, it begs the question as to whether or not Barbarian and Ranger are being considered middle-class.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Base_attack_bonus

A thoughtful speculation, but alas that can't be the case.  If that were true, the Improved Critical feat would be altogether unavailable.
I can indeed select the feat as seen in the first screen shot, meaning Bjarna's AB is definitely at +8, but unless I choose Fighter as the class, Dwarven Waraxe is unavailable as a weapon.

Just for giggles, I went through the Improved Critical weapon list when selecting Barbarian, Fighter, and Ranger for my 8th level class and did a comparison.  It turns out there are 3 weapons the Fighter can select in the Improved Critical list that the Barbarian and Ranger cannot:

Dwarven Waraxe
Trident
Whip

I'm thinking this is either a balance thing, or more probably a bug, but we'll need a DM/developer to research & comment.

[Ercvadasz]

A check I made reveals that you can take this feat at level nine of your barbarian.

I would think the issue is the character of that feat at eighth level --- it is particular to the server, not existing in original settings, and the feat on level 9 is 'normal'. Probably that can be fixed, then, or you could postpone taking this improved critical until level nine.

Indeed I think it has something to do with feat progression.
On even levels only a fighter receives feat normally. The other three full BAB classes do not. This is what causes this, since these bonus feats, do not have every feat available. In the past i think we had some kind of such a trouble with other feats as well.
It seems that improved criticals dwarven axe is not among the list of bonus feats. So if you continue as a barbarian you can have it on level 9.

[Bad_Bud]

The bonus feat tables have some issues, which causes some of the bonus feats to not show up for certain classes. You would see it on the list for barbarian level 9.

[MatticusCaesar]

Dwarven Waraxe did indeed appear in the Improved Crit list at Level 9.

Thanks, all!