Gilding.

[--GlamRock--]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this. Also because, in my view, it is not simply system-wise but also rp-wise.

Gilding is quite a pointless craft to pursue, if one is not stubbornly and patiently ICly related to it. The first level is got, as other crafts, after the fisrt fail, but the first thing you may do is set DC 20, thus, with the -5 penalty for the "new recipe", and unless you have some +4 (constitution and intelligence), you are doomed to waste the 1st level only with failures. My own case is +3, so wasting my first level as such. What I've noticed is that I earn 4 cxps for each failure, which means one piece of acid (some 10-12 coins) and one of mercuery (290-310). Let's put it in the lowest range, it means 300 coins each fail for 4 cxps, and you need 1000 cxps for having the chance to gild anything with a natural 20. It means 250 attempts, so 75,000 coins. Adding to this, silver is not really something you find at every corner, the usual place where you can get it requires a well planned party. And even if one wanted to sell gilded weapons, they are not magical, they serve only vs werecreatures, if you are used to deal with a party with someone able to cast, or even if you're able to cast (magic weapon, lev 1 spell), you'd need just a steel weapon. Money sink? Maybe, but I'm sure not many these days are going after this craft, personally I went to cxps 750 and put a lot of effort in it. Maybe, actually,  the gilding system needs a serious revision.

[Mcskinns]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this. Also because, in my view, it is not simply system-wise but also rp-wise.

Gilding is quite a pointless craft to pursue, if one is not stubbornly and patiently ICly related to it. The first level is got, as other crafts, after the fisrt fail, but the first thing you may do is set DC 20, thus, with the -5 penalty for the "new recipe", and unless you have some +4 (constitution and intelligence), you are doomed to waste the 1st level only with failures. My own case is +3, so wasting my first level as such. What I've noticed is that I earn 4 cxps for each failure, which means one piece of acid (some 10-12 coins) and one of mercuery (290-310). Let's put it in the lowest range, it means 300 coins each fail for 4 cxps, and you need 1000 cxps for having the chance to gild anything with a natural 20. It means 250 attempts, so 75,000 coins. Adding to this, silver is not really something you find at every corner, the usual place where you can get it requires a well planned party. And even if one wanted to sell gilded weapons, they are not magical, they serve only vs werecreatures, if you are used to deal with a party with someone able to cast, or even if you're able to cast (magic weapon, lev 1 spell), you'd need just a steel weapon. Money sink? Maybe, but I'm sure not many these days are going after this craft, personally I went to cxps 750 and put a lot of effort in it. Maybe, actually,  the gilding system needs a serious revision.

It has been mentioned time and time again... some suggestions have been offered, but I think it is low on the priority list. 

What advice I can offer is... try gilding larger weapons, they are all DC 20, but seem to offer more Cxp

[Ercvadasz]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this. Also because, in my view, it is not simply system-wise but also rp-wise.

Gilding is quite a pointless craft to pursue, if one is not stubbornly and patiently ICly related to it. The first level is got, as other crafts, after the fisrt fail, but the first thing you may do is set DC 20, thus, with the -5 penalty for the "new recipe", and unless you have some +4 (constitution and intelligence), you are doomed to waste the 1st level only with failures. My own case is +3, so wasting my first level as such. What I've noticed is that I earn 4 cxps for each failure, which means one piece of acid (some 10-12 coins) and one of mercuery (290-310). Let's put it in the lowest range, it means 300 coins each fail for 4 cxps, and you need 1000 cxps for having the chance to gild anything with a natural 20. It means 250 attempts, so 75,000 coins. Adding to this, silver is not really something you find at every corner, the usual place where you can get it requires a well planned party. And even if one wanted to sell gilded weapons, they are not magical, they serve only vs werecreatures, if you are used to deal with a party with someone able to cast, or even if you're able to cast (magic weapon, lev 1 spell), you'd need just a steel weapon. Money sink? Maybe, but I'm sure not many these days are going after this craft, personally I went to cxps 750 and put a lot of effort in it. Maybe, actually,  the gilding system needs a serious revision.

It has been mentioned time and time again... some suggestions have been offered, but I think it is low on the priority list. 

What advice I can offer is... try gilding larger weapons, they are all DC 20, but seem to offer more Cxp

actually not true.
I tried to guild a bastard sword DC was 20 as well, and 4 cp is what i gained. So it did not work that way.
My char has just +2 bonus. So i will waste around 225K or so not to mention will need around 750 silver ingots to finally have a chance of a nat 20 success.
Best guilders are....wizards? (con and int.)

[Tycat]

Wizards or Rogues. Int doesn't strike me as a str based character stat

[Ercvadasz]

Wizards or Rogues. Int doesn't strike me as a str based character stat

Wizards firstly, thereafter rogues too.
But it does not strike me as an int based neither. I would guess dex, but not sure. (though for my char would not matter if it would be con+dex instead of con+int)

[Syl]

Guilding is con and int skill just like Alchemy. on fail your only going to get about 3-4 CP no matter what craft. You just have to keep at it Guilding is painful but once you got it your golden. I got lucky and said fudge it threw in my last ingot and a copper greatsword and rolled my nat 20

And any class can have any stat.. just because it says Int is a wizard's primary state does not mean they cannot pump STR.. or a Rogue pump INT  all just based on RP. while those are not typically very high STR builds I know of 1 rogue that has a - to dex and a HUGE str.

[Olywynn]

For giggles, could implement bronze gilding (as seen in China).  +1 AB vs Fey, as it's 90% copper?

[manchupechu]

Or gold gilding, that gives +1 Influence.

Or just give variable DCs for different weapons. That would solve all these issues.

[--GlamRock--]

Well the possibilites are mainly three and I do not know how they are feasible, or adapt to the general balance.

1) Giving different DCs according to weapons, thus reducing the 20 for smaller weapons;
2) Reducing sensibly the price of mercury and/or acid (the latter is not too expensive, but still more than a bottle for herbalism);
3) Giving some more propriety (whatever, but making them worth more than a simple steel weapon).

I was also told that enchanting a silvered weapon causes a greater loss of xps, so really from each side I see this business is just a series of cons, as it is right now.

[LeviShultz]

One of the largest hurdles for gilding seems to be martial costs from what I have read. Not the end all be all of issues, but a significant one. What I propose is two fold: First, flipping the costs of Apricot Acid and Mercury so that the acid cost more. Second, that the player crafted acid varnishes or acid essences work as a substitute for apricot acid. This both promotes player economy while lowering the price barrier for gilding provided you have the in game supply. Players will still be able to use the store bought acid should a player supply not be available, but the price incentive to find a player alchemist will be there.

[LeviShultz]

Ezra forgive me for the thread necro, but I'm giving this idea bump with the new gilding options available.

[EO]

I'm adding Gold gilding in the next update.

[Syl]

I'm adding Gold gilding in the next update.

Wooooo i can see it now... gold guilded steel fullplate. +2 influence.

[Mayvind]

I'm adding Gold gilding in the next update.

Wooooo i can see it now... gold guilded steel fullplate. +2 influence.

You can Gilde Armor now ? Also does this effect enchantment ? like +2 vs werewolves get +4 vs werewolves etc..etc..

[Bluebomber4evr]

I'm adding Gold gilding in the next update.

Wooooo i can see it now... gold guilded steel fullplate. +2 influence.

You can Gilde Armor now ? Also does this effect enchantment ? like +2 vs werewolves get +4 vs werewolves etc..etc..

Gold gives an Influence bonus and resistance to corrosion attacks (like rust monsters' attacks).

[Syl]

I'm adding Gold gilding in the next update.

Wooooo i can see it now... gold guilded steel fullplate. +2 influence.

You can Gilde Armor now ? Also does this effect enchantment ? like +2 vs werewolves get +4 vs werewolves etc..etc..

Gold gives an Influence bonus and resistance to corrosion attacks (like rust monsters' attacks).

huh... didn't think gold would allow the resistance to corroding so like... it would give a +1 or +2 vs saves against corrosion?... just an example

[Bluebomber4evr]

I'm adding Gold gilding in the next update.

Wooooo i can see it now... gold guilded steel fullplate. +2 influence.

You can Gilde Armor now ? Also does this effect enchantment ? like +2 vs werewolves get +4 vs werewolves etc..etc..

Gold gives an Influence bonus and resistance to corrosion attacks (like rust monsters' attacks).

huh... didn't think gold would allow the resistance to corroding so like... it would give a +1 or +2 vs saves against corrosion?... just an example

It works the same way bronze does. If the rust monster (or whatever else has corrosion) attacks, the script checks the material type on your weapon/shield/armor. If the material type lists bronze or gold, the attack does nothing.

[Syl]

I'm adding Gold gilding in the next update.

Wooooo i can see it now... gold guilded steel fullplate. +2 influence.

You can Gilde Armor now ? Also does this effect enchantment ? like +2 vs werewolves get +4 vs werewolves etc..etc..

Gold gives an Influence bonus and resistance to corrosion attacks (like rust monsters' attacks).

huh... didn't think gold would allow the resistance to corroding so like... it would give a +1 or +2 vs saves against corrosion?... just an example

It works the same way bronze does. If the rust monster (or whatever else has corrosion) attacks, the script checks the material type on your weapon/shield/armor. If the material type lists bronze or gold, the attack does nothing.

Huh.... That's pretty cool!! I always knew bronze was special just couldn't figure out how... since no one ever made it.