Author Topic: Hiding names.  (Read 8866 times)

--GlamRock--

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Hiding names.
« on: June 27, 2015, 12:53:08 PM »
This is quite random, but yesterday someone necroposted in an Italian Ravenloft NWN board. I went to see then scanned older messages, and, apparently, one of the coders of the latest incarnation of that server (I think it was Barovia online) said that he was implementing a system through which names were hidden. And players/characters, once introduced in RP to PCs and/or NPCs, could add a customized name, that is the one which was provided. I thought the thing great. It would lift many troubles of metagaming with names, and it would remove, at least quite a bit, the issues of those going in disguise or providing fake names. I am not a coder, and I do wonder if a system like this may ever be implemented on POTM.
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Ehver

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2015, 12:55:29 PM »
This would be SO. COOL.
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Destinysdesire

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2015, 12:55:58 PM »
Or perhaps a disguise option like Arelith has that lets you disguise yourself and change your name to that disguised name.

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2015, 01:05:20 PM »
Are we able to do in game name changes yet on PCs? I thought that was a NWNx thing, and PotM doesn't use NWNx.

Destinysdesire

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2015, 01:08:20 PM »
Via DMs only

ShadyWraith

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2015, 01:53:40 PM »
Hasnt this been previously discussed and turned down for various reasons?

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2015, 01:55:45 PM »
Are we able to do in game name changes yet on PCs? I thought that was a NWNx thing, and PotM doesn't use NWNx.

We do use NWNX, but it is malfunctioning at the moment.
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Tycat

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2015, 02:43:12 PM »
It's fantastic and i've seen this before. I am not sure how compatible it would be on our system though.
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Kiyosa

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2015, 02:45:32 PM »
This would be SO. COOL.
This. It will leave little too no space for metagaming, deliberate or the sort that happens out of reflex, too. A shame it can't be done :(

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2015, 02:51:47 PM »
Also, it would be great for disguises, or even pretending to be some one else.
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julienchab

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2015, 04:16:28 PM »
Also, it would be great for disguises, or even pretending to be some one else.

Everyone could call themselves Zidonne !

Tycat

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2015, 04:36:29 PM »
Also, it would be great for disguises, or even pretending to be some one else.

Everyone could call themselves Zidonne !
-_- If they were fabulous enough to pull off high high combat boots.
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Budly

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2015, 09:05:36 PM »
How would it work in theory? Would anyone be able to change a name and proclaim themself a person and have the name  tag? Without rolls and such? It could be malicious.

Mcskinns

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2015, 02:32:45 AM »
How would it work in theory? Would anyone be able to change a name and proclaim themself a person and have the name  tag? Without rolls and such? It could be malicious.

agreed, there would likely be a lot of cheese on them taters if everyone could simply change their robe, put on a hood, and be unrecognizable because they had a system to protect them.

I could however see this as feasible if there was some form of craft based around it... the crafters skill+roll would be recorded and any masked appearances would be revealed with an opposed roll via the examine emote or something and an appropriate stat.  (hidden roll obviously, else players could cheese the knowledge they even made a roll)



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Bad_Bud

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2015, 02:37:06 AM »
I think it's a bad idea. There are only so many clothing options and so much detail that can be visually derived while playing. You would notice occasions where you'd want people to recognize your character, but they can't. Also consider that to have a name be completely hidden, it would have to be hidden in chat and in the player list, which would make it difficult to find and play with your friends.

As a mechanic purely for disguise, you can't alternate between having a "disguised" name and a "detected" name floating over your head. Your character only has one name. I would rather players play together respectfully (knowing that some players may get metagamed) than to have a system for disguising that is unfair and unbeatable.

Destinysdesire

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2015, 02:44:58 AM »
The roll is usually a bluff check or a hide check versus the persons spot roll, this is something that I have seen used, and it does work.

Mcskinns

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2015, 02:55:48 AM »
The roll is usually a bluff check or a hide check versus the persons spot roll, this is something that I have seen used, and it does work.

Hide makes no sense, it is used to avoid being seen entirely... just because someone is skilled at standing inside a shadow or behind a tree does not make them masters of disguise.... Bluff could work, but still... does not adequately portray the skill of one to actually disguise either, at least imo.  Someone could put a mop on their head and some ten inch heels and not convince me they are Madonna.  warping existing skills to cover something they are not really intended to cover is just bad form in my opinion, everyone will simply find a reason to use a skill they believe is best suited to their success.  I for one would love a new skill to actually cover it, but woulld't want the headache of hearing people complain about the need to respend points and being forced to lose other skills to take it.  Better in my opinion to make it a craft, tie it to appropriate abilities and make some means to see through it given certain circumstances.

Otherwise, its just going to be messy.



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FinalHeaven

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2015, 03:02:37 AM »
I don't think you'd have to worry much about people demanding re-specs, since rolls between players aren't enforced anyway.  For that reason it would indeed be interesting to have it rely on a separate system.

I do like the idea of hiding names in general though.  I'm not sure how necessary it is at the end of the day, though.



Destinysdesire

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2015, 05:41:20 AM »
The roll is usually a bluff check or a hide check versus the persons spot roll, this is something that I have seen used, and it does work.

Hide makes no sense, it is used to avoid being seen entirely... just because someone is skilled at standing inside a shadow or behind a tree does not make them masters of disguise.... Bluff could work, but still... does not adequately portray the skill of one to actually disguise either, at least imo.  Someone could put a mop on their head and some ten inch heels and not convince me they are Madonna.  warping existing skills to cover something they are not really intended to cover is just bad form in my opinion, everyone will simply find a reason to use a skill they believe is best suited to their success.  I for one would love a new skill to actually cover it, but woulld't want the headache of hearing people complain about the need to respend points and being forced to lose other skills to take it.  Better in my opinion to make it a craft, tie it to appropriate abilities and make some means to see through it given certain circumstances.

Otherwise, its just going to be messy.

A good thing to remember though, At the end of the day, the char doesn't have to convince you hes someone different, he has to convince your character. So weather or not you believe it, can your char really see that its the exact same person? Or are you just gonna sit there and ignore the RP and say NOPE I can see through it?

Ehver

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2015, 06:01:18 AM »
warping existing skills to cover something they are not really intended to cover is just bad form in my opinion, everyone will simply find a reason to use a skill they believe is best suited to their success. 

This. A thousand times this. It's one of the reasons why I wish we had a set rule on which rolls go against which rolls. I know that rolls are not required, and anyone can ignore or honor them as they wish, but having some kind of official guideline would make things so much easier. I can't count how many times I've seen people use inappropriate rolls simply because they know that it will improve their chances of 'winning'. It can be quite frustrating.

That being said, even the disguise roll is not entirely appropriate for this kind of situation, unless you and the other player are fully committed to respecting the result. As long as they can OOCly see who your character is, there is the strong possibility that they will go looking for opportunities to catch you out on it, either consciously or unconsciously.

Being able to change the name would be amazing, but it would give the name-changed player the responsibility to use it wisely, and to give other players the chance to figure it out if they're being attentive.

I think it would be really cool, and totally support the possibility, but I could also see it being problematic.
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Mcskinns

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2015, 09:34:37 AM »
The roll is usually a bluff check or a hide check versus the persons spot roll, this is something that I have seen used, and it does work.

Hide makes no sense, it is used to avoid being seen entirely... just because someone is skilled at standing inside a shadow or behind a tree does not make them masters of disguise.... Bluff could work, but still... does not adequately portray the skill of one to actually disguise either, at least imo.  Someone could put a mop on their head and some ten inch heels and not convince me they are Madonna.  warping existing skills to cover something they are not really intended to cover is just bad form in my opinion, everyone will simply find a reason to use a skill they believe is best suited to their success.  I for one would love a new skill to actually cover it, but woulld't want the headache of hearing people complain about the need to respend points and being forced to lose other skills to take it.  Better in my opinion to make it a craft, tie it to appropriate abilities and make some means to see through it given certain circumstances.

Otherwise, its just going to be messy.


A good thing to remember though, At the end of the day, the char doesn't have to convince you hes someone different, he has to convince your character. So weather or not you believe it, can your char really see that its the exact same person? Or are you just gonna sit there and ignore the RP and say NOPE I can see through it?

My main character has a 20 INT, which I will surmise is several points higher than my own, she also has a decent search/spot skills which I would wager exceed what my own would be if I were somehow statified.  Convincing me should be considerably easier than convincing my character, yet I understand your meaning, I was simply implying that absurd or simple disguises would not be effective against any but the stupidest of characters, and even that is a stretch as times.  If anything, the old system that required Perform to create a new image(the artistry of makeup) paired with Influence to convince people you were not you, seemed viable.  It still favored certain classes who have more skill points, or those specific skills as class skills.   I think an important thing to consider in a lot of cases as well, is that just because you notice something amiss with someones disguise, it shouldn't always mean you know exactly who it is.  It could be a simple situation where you notice something seems off, giving you reason to either try to avoid said PC expecting they are up to no good, or to prod deeper to see if you can discover exactly who is beneath the disguise.


But more on topic, a system in place of some variety would be nice.  My character has aquired a split personality over the years in Ravenloft. And while my description clearly states the visiable differences between their style of dress, almost everyone greets her as Sage when she walks past wearing non-traditional Sage clothing, carrying a non-traditional Sage weapon.  She doesn't specifically try to conceal her voice, she just speaks in an annoyed and angry tone all the time, and such I always let someone who has spent a little time speaking to Sage roll to see if they recognize her voice.  It is a situation where people see the name over your head and assume you're you, despite all the changes we can make to our physical avatar to prevent it.  Our present situations means we are left either contacting people via tells over and over, or announcing with a "//ooc - in diguise" post every few minutes as someone new approaches.  And this does nothing to prevent someone stealthing along spying on you from shadows/invis and simply believing they are seeing your character because you may never realize they were there.  Then they pass on info about what you were doing to someone else as IC info, which in turn gets spread around to others. 

So I am in support of a means to either change name, or some visual indication that is universal that lets people know your disguised and to RP accordingly.



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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2015, 09:48:15 AM »
Gonna add my two cents...

While I love the idea, there are flaws with it and the current system we have. If we were to implement it, wouldn't it make more sense to have like disguise kits, or add the disguise skill or something?
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Merry Munchkin

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2015, 10:33:25 AM »
The roll is usually a bluff check or a hide check versus the persons spot roll, this is something that I have seen used, and it does work.

Hide makes no sense, it is used to avoid being seen entirely... just because someone is skilled at standing inside a shadow or behind a tree does not make them masters of disguise.... Bluff could work, but still... does not adequately portray the skill of one to actually disguise either, at least imo.  Someone could put a mop on their head and some ten inch heels and not convince me they are Madonna.  warping existing skills to cover something they are not really intended to cover is just bad form in my opinion, everyone will simply find a reason to use a skill they believe is best suited to their success.  I for one would love a new skill to actually cover it, but woulld't want the headache of hearing people complain about the need to respend points and being forced to lose other skills to take it.  Better in my opinion to make it a craft, tie it to appropriate abilities and make some means to see through it given certain circumstances.

Otherwise, its just going to be messy.

The best option would be to use a "perform" check, just like an actor in costume using a stage accent when speaking.  You could add a "disguise kit" to items available (probably with charges, since that represents using up the materials in the kit), which would give you a bonus to your perform skill.  There are some existing items that also give small boosts to the perform skill, so a non-bard could still pull it off successfully.  If you want to make it an opposed check, I would suggest an ability check (INT or WIS, with my recommendation being WIS -- since this represents, in part, intuition and insight).

However, I would caution that I think this was discussed before (you can search the forums), and while there is a script that does allow for removal of names, according to feedback of those who know it is rather cumbersome and possibly a resource hog.  Just my two cents.



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Alithym

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2015, 10:38:17 AM »
Here's the thing. When Talek was running the Rebels/Guards, we were told specifically.. if you want to integrate your Gundarakite as a Barovian, you need to have high Influence and Perform. To be able to be convincing enough to pull off the act.

I had a rebel, who actually was believed to be barovian, who became a guard, and who was feeding information to the rebels. That being said, putting on a hood/helmet, and a change of clothes isn't going to be a disguise. Disguising oneself requires a change in posture, in voice, in mannerisms.. meaning if you talk with your hands, you  have to NOT talk with your hands.. There's more to a disguise than just costume change. :)

DrXavierTColtrane

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Re: Hiding names.
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2015, 10:51:42 AM »
Perform seems like the appropriate skill to me, even if it does favor bards. From the bard class description:

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