Your overall preferences for the development of POTM

[MAB77]

So the mists straight up dont claim some races?

It is not quite stated as such. But orcs are literally unknown to natives of the demiplane. They don't even exist as creatures of legends. The odd orc that might have been snatched would only be seen as an ugly caliban.

This omission of orcs on Ravenloft was done by design when the setting was fleshed out. The designers felt orcs were poorly suited to gothic horror. A point on which I agree.

[Zwickelfaust]

Not to mention the life expectancy would be rather limited. Half orcs tend to live longer due to the rational thinking and ability for adaptation inherited from their human blood. Unless brought in to the mists in numbers, full blooded orcs would likely die quickly. If you take a creature that uses strength in numbers and and throw it into a world that chews up the ignorant like candy, there's not much hope. It would never fit into humanoid culture, it likely would refuse to. There are bands of hob goblins in caves, but they would likely show more interest in killing the orc then letting it join. Now it's believable that an inelegant orc might know common and be able to resist his base urges to be able to communicate with people, but that likelihood is rare. People might accept a half orc because of its humanity, but a full blooded orc doesn't have that luxury. Outlanders that know of orcs would likely kill it anyway.

[Syl]

I kinda want to argue that this isn't always true, orcs are not just a mindless beast that kills, they do have warchiefs. and they do have smarts. most people just play orcs as the dumb barbarians and fighters.

But I think what is being implied is that Even if there were Orcs in Ravenloft.. no one would see them as orcs just Caliban...really..really strong and Fugly calibans

[Zwickelfaust]

You are right about that. Orcs have a complex hierarchy. Maybe a rephrasing might help. Warcheifs are the top dogs in their society. They tend to be the strongest and smartest off the orcs. Orcish culture revolves around war and violence. Such a culture is simply incompatible. The idea of living among humanoids would repulse most full bloods. If for generations a people is taught to hate and kill another species, it would be a learning curve for even highly intelligent and charismatic orcs to adapt. A half orc tends to struggle to control the genetic triggers of his orc blood to fit in. A full blood would have to work extra hard. Unless it was raised by humans, it would likely never trust a humanoid, like a Barovian would likely not trust a trifling. But I digress, this thread is not meant for such a discussion, however interesting it may be.

On point, I think it would be cool for starting characters to have access to equipment more suiting to their class during creation. One example would be druids. It would be nice to be able to choose weapons and armor of different materials. Like weapons and armor made from bone or wood.

[Norture]

Maybe add orcs as an AMPC race. The thing with AMPCs is they exist to be antagonists, orc fits in with that and I'd see them fitting in RP-wise the same way lycanthropes do. I agree that orcs are a poor choice for regular PCs since they're a generic "evil" race.

Rather than add more loot, I'd rather see the loot pool trimmed a bit. There's a number of items that serve absolutely no purpose but to sell to NPCs. I don't mean vendor trash items like gold rings etc, I mean magic items that are just flat out useless like the charm sword. There's also a LOT of consumable items, and it's gotten to a point where it feels like it's hard to get anything useful anymore because the loot pool is so bloated.

As for what I picked out of those 3 choices, I went with more MPCs, more player-driven RP mechanics, and more models.

For MPCs, I'd love to see something mage oriented. Wights are cool and all, but I'd like to flesh a character out more than "he hates everything". While liches and vasseliches aren't going to happen, it'd be cool if there was some sort of homebrew alternative that could be created. Something in between wight and vampire; It would feed like a wight but have the durability of a vampire. The driving force for it would be some sort of magical or research obsession, and that obsession would be their drive and downfall. Ideally I'd like to play an intelligent undead without the sun weakness, when I played a wight I had a lot of fun hunting characters who were heading out during the day to various dungeon locations. I guess I want that kind of experience, but on a character with more depth than "he is wight. he hate u lots."

I would love more player-driven RP mechanics that would allow people to get things going. There's a number of things DMs will do for players that people might not know about, such as creating a newspaper, making books, renting a Drain room, or creating a painting. it would be cool if systems were put in so people could do this themselves, since these ideas don't necessarily require a DM.
For creating a book or painting, perhaps add writable blank books or canvases that allow more text than the sheet of paper. Have a printing press available to players in Dementlieu, like maybe a rent-a-press thing where you pay 500g and the NPC will let you in to use the facility. For the drain, maybe leave the big rooms as DM key request only, but also create a number of tiny rooms people could rent, like the tenements in Port-a-Lucine.

I was thinking about voting for adding more faction mechanics, but by adding more player-driven RP mechanics that inherently benefits factions, I believe the option is redundant.

For the last choice I was debating between more crafting options or new models, both are excellent options. There've been talks about adding jewelry crafting and food cooking in the past, both of those sound like a lot of fun. I wouldn't mind being able to get a variety of skill points on crafted goods too, so crafting would be useful for skill rogues and mages. I might change my vote to crafting, actually. I just hope that an expanded crafting system would focus on expanding it to more classes, right now it's very melee-focused.

[peps]

You are right they are a generic evil, and I think that's why it being even an AMPC race isn't a great choice. Orcs don't serve that theme of unexpected terror that is prominent in gothic horror. Vampires, werewolves, wererats, you never know who they can be. An orc? You immediately recognize them, and you know they're brutish and savage. Unlike humans or halflings or gnomes who can also be that, at least they do such for a specific reason they've manifested (e.g. criminals, bandits, tyrants, etc.). And this is also why calibans are permitted; down to their basic form, they're just a deformed version of their parents' race. They aren't naturally brutish, like orcs.

[Zwickelfaust]

So...... I'm sure this has come up a million times, but Dhampir as a subrace?

[MAB77]

So...... I'm sure this has come up a million times, but Dhampir as a subrace?

Ravenloft's dhampirs are immensely powerful and unsuitable as a player race. See Denizens of Dread p.55 & 56.

It is also pointless to allow them as AMPCs. On Ravenloft dhampir's are cursed to return as full fledge vampires after there death. Since you would have to fill an application form anyway, you might as well apply for the real thing from the get go.

[Winter]

I've had some thoughts on my mind, and I think Ravenloft is one of the few Neverwinter Night's servers with any promise, a decent setting and as such this is merely my constructive criticism, I've ran servers, I've been on DM teams and I run a very successful World of Warcraft Private RP server. - Wake, which I honestly treat players as they deserve to be treated, as they treat the staff team, no one is entitled to any kind of response or professionalism, but if the player is sincere, and polite that is always returned back to them, the same goes for those that get on the bad side - they get the same kind of treatment, and they know how they are felt - some may say that is unwelcomingly, but if they do apologize and be more humble, I'd even put them onto the staff team and give them a fair shake as I'm someone who believes in giving chances when someone puts their best foot forward. - this is a server with over 100 confirmed logins every day.

Rather then any system change, or work conducted by the development team. I would rather there be a focus on the philosophy & culture of the DM Team, and what kind of rating Ravenloft is (PG13, ETC.)  One that is far more transparent to players, and a bit more liberal with handing out second chances and shaking a player's hand, as the small environment that we find ourselves in, and the limited playerbase to Neverwinter Nights, we're often going to find ourselves running into the same people, and it's better to make better. There isn't a steady stream of new players anymore, and I've had a few bad run ins, I'll be the first one to admit it, and by no means am I suggesting that case by case situations be thrown out the window, but for a willingness to forgive and forget, but I'm from a school of thought that thinks public apologies, and saying what you have done, and the DM Team being candid. (Note I didn't say professional) is a way to go, as that's how I've handled affairs with success.


1. Refocus of the DM Team to be more open, transparent. If a player wants to know the team's thoughts on them, it should be something that should be available and open to them, and on the oft hand, that player in question should be permitted a chance for redemption with the DM team with a humble apology, even public.But I think that Ravenloft sometimes is far too much of a 'hug box', which kind of leads me to my next point.

2. I would say that likely 90 percent of Ravenloft players are over the age of eighteen, by no means am I saying let's turn this into social, but I feel the restrictions on language, mature content. (I am not saying lets have public erp or even make it a thing) but adult content, and adult speech is something that should not be regulated in character. A bump up to the "R" version I think would be far more fitting.

3. Don't be afraid to go back to the core elements of a gothic horror, and what it entails, I think we lose ourselves sometimes in the level 20 fantasy box of high magic, I frankly think that magic is far too prevalent and widespread that it's meaning, and depth with it's overuse has been cheapened.

Spoiler: show

granted im a cynical guy that reads A Song of Ice and Fire over and over again, so you can tell what my tastes are.

It's great that you guys are looking into more content, I like Ravenloft, I've played here a lot and I just wanted to give my thoughts on what I've seen and what I think might make things better.

[Cursed Ink]

[Long ass post]

I agree.

[Phantasia]

A little transparency doesn't hurt anyone. Too much, however, and it can be easily misconstrued with one misspoken word, because not all people are the same.

Also, yes, the whole 'low magic vs. high magic' thing-debate has been brought up tons of times in the past. It's unlikely to change from what it is, being relatively high magic -- because Ravenloft is pretty much inherently 'high magic' (unless I missed something). I mean, there's a giant Shadow Rift in the center of the Core with all sorts of crazy things including what could destroy the Core (if I am not mistaken).

As appealing as a gritty-realism world sounds (akin to GoT), it's unlikely to happen at this point and would have to be a slow but gradual shift towards such a philosophy, and an entirely new Prisoners of the Mist. That's more of a Community movement than a developer one, I think, though.

Regardless of all that, I cast my vote some time ago for more player-driven RP functionality. I think this is what the server kind of really needs the most right now, compared to the other options.

[Winter]

A little transparency doesn't hurt anyone. Too much, however, and it can be easily misconstrued with one misspoken word, because not all people are the same.

Also, yes, the whole 'low magic vs. high magic' thing-debate has been brought up tons of times in the past. It's unlikely to change from what it is, being relatively high magic -- because Ravenloft is pretty much inherently 'high magic' (unless I missed something). I mean, there's a giant Shadow Rift in the center of the Core with all sorts of crazy things including what could destroy the Core (if I am not mistaken).

As appealing as a gritty-realism world sounds (akin to GoT), it's unlikely to happen at this point and would have to be a slow but gradual shift towards such a philosophy, and an entirely new Prisoners of the Mist. That's more of a Community movement than a developer one, I think, though.

Regardless of all that, I cast my vote some time ago for more player-driven RP functionality. I think this is what the server kind of really needs the most right now, compared to the other options.

I would say that it wasn't an argument against magic or making it "like game of thrones lel" or lowering it, as I think that magic is great to add a layer onto a story, I just think when it's overdone and overused the awe, the wonder, and how powerful magic really can be kind of loses it's 'punch'.

[Phantasia]

A little transparency doesn't hurt anyone. Too much, however, and it can be easily misconstrued with one misspoken word, because not all people are the same.

Also, yes, the whole 'low magic vs. high magic' thing-debate has been brought up tons of times in the past. It's unlikely to change from what it is, being relatively high magic -- because Ravenloft is pretty much inherently 'high magic' (unless I missed something). I mean, there's a giant Shadow Rift in the center of the Core with all sorts of crazy things including what could destroy the Core (if I am not mistaken).

As appealing as a gritty-realism world sounds (akin to GoT), it's unlikely to happen at this point and would have to be a slow but gradual shift towards such a philosophy, and an entirely new Prisoners of the Mist. That's more of a Community movement than a developer one, I think, though.

Regardless of all that, I cast my vote some time ago for more player-driven RP functionality. I think this is what the server kind of really needs the most right now, compared to the other options.

I would say that it wasn't an argument magic, as I think that magic is great to add a layer onto a story, I just think when it's overdone and overused the awe, the wonder, and how powerful magic really can be kind of loses it's 'punch'.

That's solely up to the players/DMs then. And magic is a vast thing, really. It's kind of something like "there's always a bigger fish." What you may think is the pinnacle of magic now on one of your characters may be entirely shattered by another player or DM. And, don't forget, you're mostly in charge of your perception of what loses its 'punch'. Not others and their actions.

Anyway, I don't mean to go off topic with this. Carry on.

[Zwickelfaust]

    I personally think the dm team does a good job. I would like to see more dm events, our at least be aware before hand so I can try and take part. A lot of times it's being in the right place at the right time. As a casual player it's hard to get into them. Maybe it happens more at higher levels, I'm not sure, I don't have a character over level ten. Some people seem to have no issue and get some dm fun frequently. I must learn how. This server it's good though. Write a few servers, the dms have a bad case of golden boy syndrome, where they only really care about the stories of a select few pcs that they like. I haven't seen that here. That sets this server apart in my eyes.

[MAB77]

1. Refocus of the DM Team to be more open, transparent. If a player wants to know the team's thoughts on them, it should be something that should be available and open to them, and on the oft hand, that player in question should be permitted a chance for redemption with the DM team with a humble apology, even public.But I think that Ravenloft sometimes is far too much of a 'hug box', which kind of leads me to my next point.

Define more transparent please. My experience is that the PotM staff is by far and large very open and approachable. If a player wants to know what the team thinks of him, he can always ask a member. As for a "chance for redemption", I assure you, a player is granted many opportunities to reform his ways before drastic measures are ever taken. We of course do not discuss those matters on the public forum, but that is a matter of common sense and respect for all involved in particular issues.

2. I would say that likely 90 percent of Ravenloft players are over the age of eighteen, by no means am I saying let's turn this into social, but I feel the restrictions on language, mature content. (I am not saying lets have public erp or even make it a thing) but adult content, and adult speech is something that should not be regulated in character. A bump up to the "R" version I think would be far more fitting.

I understand your point, but some of us are also parents, or aunts and uncles, using the game to introduce youngsters to role-playing in general. We want the server to be as inclusive as possible and thus will maintain the current policy on language and adult content.
 

3. Don't be afraid to go back to the core elements of a gothic horror, and what it entails, I think we lose ourselves sometimes in the level 20 fantasy box of high magic, I frankly think that magic is far too prevalent and widespread that it's meaning, and depth with it's overuse has been cheapened.

That's a delicate balance issue and a matter of perspective too. Though I too personally vouch for less magic, there are some who thinks we don't have enough. Compared to Forgotten Realms we certainly rank as low magic. It is only a matter of preferences. But in the end though, magic, high or low, is not mutually exclusive to core elements of gothic horror: fear, romance, overwhelming terror and heroism in the face thereof... Magic in the end is just a tool like any other.

[Syl]

    I personally think the dm team does a good job. I would like to see more dm events, our at least be aware before hand so I can try and take part. A lot of times it's being in the right place at the right time. As a casual player it's hard to get into them. Maybe it happens more at higher levels, I'm not sure, I don't have a character over level ten. Some people seem to have no issue and get some dm fun frequently. I must learn how. This server it's good though. Write a few servers, the dms have a bad case of golden boy syndrome, where they only really care about the stories of a select few pcs that they like. I haven't seen that here. That sets this server apart in my eyes.

I have to agree here, be able to get into more DM plots and events would be nice, in the three years I have played on this server I've never truly gotten into a plot and can count on one hand the DM mini events I've been in, I've tried many times over only to be over looked or just happen to late. I'm not gonna say Hey give me a event but being able to have the chance to get involved is a bit hard since most people seem to horde it to themselves once they get it. so the chance for more possible plots or make it slightly easier to get involved depending on what it is would be nice

[Zwickelfaust]

    I agree, some players seem to get overlooked looked often. This is not the dms fault. There are just some players who are always on and maybe they're getting involved by simply being there on a constant basis. I think smaller mini events and plots would be great for those of us who can't play for hours on end. Something that wraps up in a nice hour or so package. We don't need dream out events that further only our own stories. I remember when I first started here with Allek, we were sitting in the Morninglord temple one night and the dm sent in a little girl npc crying about her sibling falling into the for beetle holes. Naturally, as mornlordians we rushed to aid. We cleared the bugs, rescued the boy and brought both kids home safe. It was simple, only laying about a half hour, but I remember the satisfaction I felt with such a simple act of saving a boy from bugs. I didn't care about big picture plots. There was none. Just a group of heroes saving the lives of the innocent. That resonated with me. That one event made me knew that this is the server for me. I want to see more of that. Sure the big stories are beautiful and complex, but sometimes simple and short tests of character are just as enjoyable. Especially for those like me that pay a few hours here and there. I'd like to see simple events, not saying there isn't any now, just saying I'd like to see more of it.

[Norture]

You want transparency? Ok. I'll tell you how everything works. People might not like the answers though. As a disclaimer I do not represent the team, these are my blunt observations.

The DM team is very approachable about things and will try to give you feed back. One thing to keep in mind is how open you yourself are to feedback. If a person is notorious for throwing hissy fits, they are far more likely to receive a generic reply because people just don't want to deal with PM box filled with essays. Same thing with people who are sketchy or try to weasel things out of the team, they're less likely to get anything because they'll be given an inch but take a mile. I hate to say it but most of the time I see people complaining about the team, they usually fall under one of these categories.

It's silly to say players can't redeem themselves, I've seen several players do it. There's no redemption application form, redemption happens by being a positive community member and contributing to the overall story and gameplay experience of everyone. Both IC and OOC. If you feel you were a poostain in the past and want to show you've changed your ways, show it through your actions. In this sense I think OOC is more important than IC, because a lot of the time it is an OOC attitude problem that is the root of everything.

One thing to note about DMing is there are a good 50 forums that DMs are able to see, there is a LOT of content to be in charge of. It's easy for the DM experience to turn into forum only and not in-game because of just how much stuff there is to do. If a DM doesn't reply to you, it could be that they forgot after posting 5 applications, or went to get an answer for you and it ended up getting lost, or any other number of reasons. If you send in an application, send a reminder after a week. Don't be afraid to send reminders!

If you need DM help doing something, there's some things DMs will very gladly do for players as it requires little effort on the DM's part to do it. This includes creating custom books, renaming things (if you give a name and description and don't just go "eh you decide"), setting up events (balls, underbrawl, undermarket, etc), or minor NPC approval things like getting a newspaper going. DMing is like an iceburg, 90% of it takes place on the forums where things have to be meticulously recorded. The fewer details involved, the easier it is for the DM to get something done quickly. If you want to work for Black Pieter or do dirty work for the Romulich, that's a tier up. That starts to require planning things out. Risks, consequences, where the story is going to go. That's not to say DMs won't do it, it just becomes a lot more difficult once conflict and consequences enter the equation. Same with rituals, where generally someone wants to do something evil. The question then becomes "Ok let's plan how this is going to go wrong, I've set up all these scenarios where things could go wrong in different ways." In all of these cases, you're asking for a time investment from the DM to your story, it's not going to be a one-off thing. It's going to be a mini-plot for your character and those involved covering a number of days or weeks. If you want to do something like this, write a thoughtful PM about what you want to do and realize it will probably not go as you envision it in your head. Also try to keep it concise. Edit what you write and keep the word count down. Point form details are good. The more you ramble, the more likely things are going to get glossed over.

[peps]

To add to that, this is how things work for almost every roleplay server - big or small. It helps streamline things. People need to understand why it's like that, and use the system to their advantage.

Zwickelfaust, I would suggest either taking that leap and doing as Norture suggests, or join up with a group whose leader(s) are willing to.

[Zwickelfaust]

I'm not trying to make any story plots, I was just saying I enjoy small dm encounters. Such things don't need planning. Quick missions and dms throwing monsters at us, that's the stuff I love. The whole "oh crap! Uzica the deceiver just owned half the group. Grab the fallen and run!" Used to be a lot of that. The simple things sometime carry the most weight, instilling lasting terror and inspiring thicker plots to emerge. I'm not a fan of planning stuff like that. I believe it should flow naturally.

[Norture]

Zwicklefaust is fine guys. My post was in general since several people are talking about transparency.

[Janarah]

I'm sure it's been mentioned over and over again, but what about craaftable gloves, belts, and cloaks? 
And on a side note, would it be a terrible thing to ease up on the monk multiclassing restrictions so that they could have a decent attack base by going part fighter or ranger?

[Arawn]

I'm sure it's been mentioned over and over again, but what about craaftable gloves, belts, and cloaks? 
And on a side note, would it be a terrible thing to ease up on the monk multiclassing restrictions so that they could have a decent attack base by going part fighter or ranger?

Remember that all allowed prestige classes are still open to you as a monk!

[Janarah]

I'm sure it's been mentioned over and over again, but what about craaftable gloves, belts, and cloaks? 
And on a side note, would it be a terrible thing to ease up on the monk multiclassing restrictions so that they could have a decent attack base by going part fighter or ranger?

Remember that all allowed prestige classes are still open to you as a monk!

Oh, I know. I have assassin on sud, and it's really neat. But, unless some how weapon master is available for unarmed strikes her ab is always going to be horrid, even buffed. I honestly would have rather multi classed her with say five levels of ranger, because it fit the character more. And maybe it would have raised her ab, not really sure. Otherwise, I'm honestly not sure what prestige classes would work, monks can't become aa's, or rdd, and last I was told the harper scout was out of the question because some of the class abilities might break xp. So, monks are kind of limited as far as rp multiclassing.

[Arawn]

Divine Champion is a great one.