Author Topic: Mueling  (Read 4562 times)

EO

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Re: Mueling
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2015, 11:50:12 AM »
How do you determine if it is excessive though?

Was the reason why you gave these items to help someone OOCly since they're a friend? If so, it's because of an OOC reason. Would that character have any chance in getting these scrolls if they weren't given? If not, it's likely excessive. There's a difference between helping out a low level and equipping a low level because they're your friend.

dark_majico

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Re: Mueling
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2015, 12:57:30 PM »
How do you determine if it is excessive though?

Was the reason why you gave these items to help someone OOCly since they're a friend? If so, it's because of an OOC reason. Would that character have any chance in getting these scrolls if they weren't given? If not, it's likely excessive. There's a difference between helping out a low level and equipping a low level because they're your friend.

Twinking is against the rules and like it's been said it's when people give items to players for OOC reasons that are way out of proportion to the players level and ability to get. I don't think this is all that difficult to prove. Lets not over use the term twinking though, ive been given items from characters my character's barely know, and OOC I'm not even sur eI know the player, mostly ive turned it down, but none of the items were really powerful or anything really speacial to write home about, I don't think it's fair to call that twinking, players here are just generous and maybe they just see it as a way of starting legit roleplay or creating a bond between characters so more roleplay can happen? Just a thought.
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Re: Mueling
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2015, 01:02:23 PM »
Muling isn't common, and the DM's are really quick about reacting to the notifications - even if you're just being rescued by someone's alt. For example, Pippin Bluckleberry rescued Zidonne once, and had to touch his sword and shield to get me and all my droppings to the cleric for a heallin'. Later down the line, Cael (who is involved with my character directly) also had to grab my body and my things and run off to get me raised. The script went off and the DM asked him about the gear even though it was an obvious rescue. So this shows that the DM's are ON TOP of it, and question even rescues to make sure there's no offenses being committed. This is just one example of me witnessing this (and I should probably stop dying), so I really don't think that muling is very commonly gotten away with.

Actually, the muling script going off is frustratingly common, and 90% of it is due to the situation you described or due to people twinking, and isn't actually a muling rulebreak. I'm looking at all of you dungeongers who have a main character that gives someone's alt an item, and then you go dungeon with them on your alt, and then pick up the item again when that person dies. Each time this happens I need to stop what I'm doing and go and look at it and make sure it's actually a rulebreak.

As for twinking, that in itself isn't against the rules. High levels taking low levels dungeoning in their massive dungeoning parties isn't against the rules. Low levels can get kitted out through IC means by going along with these dungeon groups. It might be an issue and something worth discussing though.

Oh, sorry, I meant it's not commonly done maliciously or with the intent to mule.

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Re: Mueling
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2015, 01:27:02 PM »
Certainly there are impossible-to-prove -cases of powerful gear being passed on with OOC motivations, but compared to legitimate transactions, these cases represent a tiny fraction. I'd like to think that it isn't really that harmful either that a few players get kickstarts for their new characters via illicit trades, since this barely leaks to anyone else around. It's likely that these players stick to their cliques and don't affect your (this "you" being whoever! :P) play in any manner.

So, sure, sometimes cheats pass between DM fingers, but it's rare and hardly affects anyone negatively.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 02:19:00 PM by Exordium »

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Re: Mueling
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2015, 01:36:49 PM »
Twinking is against the rules and like it's been said it's when people give items to players for OOC reasons that are way out of proportion to the players level and ability to get. I don't think this is all that difficult to prove. Lets not over use the term twinking though, ive been given items from characters my character's barely know, and OOC I'm not even sur eI know the player, mostly ive turned it down, but none of the items were really powerful or anything really speacial to write home about, I don't think it's fair to call that twinking, players here are just generous and maybe they just see it as a way of starting legit roleplay or creating a bond between characters so more roleplay can happen? Just a thought.

Twinking is a broad term that doesn't necessarily mean OOC item trade. If it's high levels kiting around low levels, that doesn't go against server rules. I'm not inherently against high levels taking low levels around either, I've done it before to RP teaching apprentice rogues and mages how to do things in real situations. It's a pretty muddy area, but is worth discussing.

Destinysdesire

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Re: Mueling
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2015, 01:47:39 PM »
I just want to point out since Miuo made the post regarding my Sorceress, Miuo provided her scrolls that she wasnt using as Miuo has basically taken her on as a Student, also the fact this char was made to " Dms can ask me about this personally since no spoilers " so yes, it wasn't based on OOC matters, it was IC.

Tycat

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Re: Mueling
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2015, 02:03:15 PM »
Here's the rule on it, for those who might be wondering where this is listed:
Quote
- Don't hand out items/gold based on OOC things. Don't give out items because of OOC based friendships. Don't give away items because you are abandoning your character.

Some instances where this was brought up was when someone was planning on closing their character, and asked for time before the death match to enchant their xp away into items to give friends. This person was denied by a couple of enchanters, and then when I was approached, I was told it was considered a violation of this rule.
 
Can you leave items to people in a will?
Can you sell all your items if you are abandoning your character?

Very clearly however, it states not to give gold and items out to friends based on OOC reasons. If a group of people who normally hang out make new characters and give each other high end items on their mains, while it's not muling it most certainly is a violation. And while it's not easy to track, it certainly it suspicious behavior (Hmmm how did a level 2 get an Eye of Ra?). And while it may not effect everyone else, it can if this person/group uses it as a distinct advantage over another person/group. if it is done for OOC reasons, there's also a chance it could spoil legitimate rp. Imagine if your apprentice has everything they need already before you had planned on rewarding their progress, because someone else gave them everything without much/any RP reason behind it. it might create more work for you, and dull the rp of apprenticeship.

I am all for helping out the lower levels especially if you have plenty. But having plenty gives you cause to create plenty of RP reasons for giving, doncha know.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 02:04:49 PM by Tycat »

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Re: Mueling
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2015, 02:13:12 PM »
If you end up banning the giving of items entirely, you're going to make the game miserable.  Yes, you shouldn't hand gear out for OOC reasoning, but if you're going to ban gift giving for IC reasons, nobody will be happy except the people who had never received a gift in the first place.

I like giving things to lower levels when I feel they deserve it IC, not because they're OOC friends, personally.

EO

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Re: Mueling
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2015, 02:13:57 PM »
Quote
Some instances where this was brought up was when someone was planning on closing their character, and asked for time before the death match to enchant their xp away into items to give friends. This person was denied by a couple of enchanters, and then when I was approached, I was told it was considered a violation of this rule.

Wow, that's bad on so many levels. That clearly would fall under the no giving rule. There's a lot of metagaming and OOCness in that.

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Re: Mueling
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2015, 02:16:49 PM »
I think it's also important to keep in mind that gold is very easy to get on this server, the most common method being through selling bags of herbs or alchemy reagents.  Not every low level has acquired their selection of high level items through twinking but through actual legitimate transactions.

dark_majico

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Re: Mueling
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2015, 03:35:32 PM »
Twinking is against the rules and like it's been said it's when people give items to players for OOC reasons that are way out of proportion to the players level and ability to get. I don't think this is all that difficult to prove. Lets not over use the term twinking though, ive been given items from characters my character's barely know, and OOC I'm not even sur eI know the player, mostly ive turned it down, but none of the items were really powerful or anything really speacial to write home about, I don't think it's fair to call that twinking, players here are just generous and maybe they just see it as a way of starting legit roleplay or creating a bond between characters so more roleplay can happen? Just a thought.

Twinking is a broad term that doesn't necessarily mean OOC item trade. If it's high levels kiting around low levels, that doesn't go against server rules. I'm not inherently against high levels taking low levels around either, I've done it before to RP teaching apprentice rogues and mages how to do things in real situations. It's a pretty muddy area, but is worth discussing.

Not sure I agree on that, I don't think its a broad term at all. If something is done for IC for legit reasons then there isn't a name for that, we are just playing and sticking IC. If it's called "twinking", then it has OOC baggage and that is going to make it uncooool.
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Re: Mueling
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2015, 04:33:58 PM »
With excessive in terms of 'twinking', I meant stuff like high level characters regularly passing along thousands of gold or entire sets of items to new characters.

It's probably fine if you give a new character some traveling money, front them the gold to bring back a fallen comrade or pass along an item or consumeable you have no use for anymore.
But if you end up fully outfitting new characters and giving them a couple of thousand gold of spending money, without a truly valid RP reason, that would be a good example of excessive.


Giving away items or gold on a character because you intend to closure is definitely against the rules, in most cases this will be considered metagaming as well as muling or twinking.
The only exception I can think of is perhaps a family heirloom being passed on after a character's death, but this would likely involve an item without notable stats, just roleplay value.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 04:43:08 PM by Feronius »
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Re: Mueling
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2015, 07:38:25 PM »
Twinking could also refer to the dungeon parties which will take absolutely anyone on a dungeon run, regardless of level, if you go and hang out at the mist camp. There are low levels who get geared out this way, and it's not necessarily against the rules since it's not based on OOC friendship necessarily, just people knowing go to the mist camp. That's why I'm specifying OOC item trade vs twinking.