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Author Topic: Area - Vallaki, Tavern Overkill?  (Read 11234 times)

Gutshank

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Re: Area - Vallaki, Tavern Overkill?
« Reply #50 on: April 16, 2015, 08:33:59 PM »
Closing down one or even all of the taverns in Vallaki will have no impact on how people behave. This has been proven time and time again over the years.
Besides. If anglers dive is closed down I shall throw a hissy fit!
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Dumas

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Re: Area - Vallaki, Tavern Overkill?
« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2015, 12:25:37 AM »
I do love the Anglers Dive!! Great spot for RP, I've used it many times. And I like how the interior of it seems to realistically match the exterior... small!

But yes, I don't believe a lesser amount of inns will do anything to change game behavior amongst players.... There is a natural tendency to gather about at a certain hub, and there probably always will be

Feronius

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Re: Area - Vallaki, Tavern Overkill?
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2015, 07:08:51 AM »
This thread was never about changing the main hub or anything like that, but about the fact that Vallaki has more taverns than there are zones. There are 9(!) taverns in total.
And that is just the taverns, not counting any other places where you can spend the night. That is serious overkill for a small town on an RP server that is not even a main hub.

I can't really say I know what it was like before, I don't think there have ever been less than 7 or 8 taverns in Vallaki since I started playing here.
Either way the intention of this thread was to bring the number down from 9 to roughly 6, not down to 2 or any change nearly as drastic as that.

Syl

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Re: Area - Vallaki, Tavern Overkill?
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2015, 10:25:35 AM »
As said before by a few others Valiki will never change... and some of these taverns are ran by players... the drowned rat and the prancing nymph. ( if i remember they both are player ran)

and a place to just hunker down for the night and a tavern are completely diffrent. And even still i remember in my PnP group all the taverns went on lock down once night fell in fear of the nueri and vampires. so there was no, "running to the lady's rest at midnight for a drink" if you didn't get there before it locked down.. your SoL...

the fact that none of the merfchants lock their doors at night is beyond me thus giving the player countless places to hide during the night..

( sorry trying to get back on topic of what i was getting at)

The point is the fact that you have all these places... make use of them if you want.. maybe you can make it a new thing to bring peple to the pup at the docks... or maybe you wish to be fancy and dress nice and head over to the Blue water inn.. if you wish to conduct shady business than tigen's is your place to go and have a drink.. possible find some unlucky soul to steal or scam. each place  can provide a diffrent atmospher... I heard of an assassin that moved from tavern to tavern using a diffrent one each night and if you wished to hire them you had to find the inn they were at... they all have their uses... and just so you know... there are exactly 8 zones of Valikie.... slums,market,warehouse,noble,the citidal, residential, docks, and the burgermister/s ground...and i have not even included the sewers..which you can normally use to hide from the bad lycans... as long as your under the slums, market,, and warehouse....

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Syl

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Re: Area - Vallaki, Tavern Overkill?
« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2015, 10:45:00 AM »
Just be cause their are more options does not make it a bad thing... no one has ever said. " oh... there's to many zones and dungeons I think we need to reduce this"

Options add flavor.

use one as a front for something if you want... you have options laid out in front of you to make use of... don't just pin yourself to one tavern just because it's common for others to go there.

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APorg

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Re: Area - Vallaki, Tavern Overkill?
« Reply #55 on: April 17, 2015, 02:23:06 PM »
That is serious overkill for a small town on an RP server that is not even a main hub.

I just want to point out that you are still asserting an opinion as fact.  Do you have any data to back it up, that is not based on modern behaviours of consumption?

Don't get me wrong -- I am totally on board with the realism/authenticity line of argument. But you've not actually made your case yet.
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Olywynn

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Re: Area - Vallaki, Tavern Overkill?
« Reply #56 on: April 17, 2015, 02:47:31 PM »
Look, all of these places fall in and out of use over time.  When I played a Garda, half the time we frequented the Angler's Dive, and the other half we frequented the Broken Bell.  Just because they're barren now doesn't mean they won't be used in the future.

Feronius

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Re: Area - Vallaki, Tavern Overkill?
« Reply #57 on: April 17, 2015, 03:39:44 PM »
I thought this being a feedback thread automatically implied it to be mostly my opinion or perspective on things. The word overkill isn't an exact statistic or fact, it's just an expression. Added "in my opinion" to the original post.

Anyway, my feedback did not even have anything to do with realism or Vallaki's population numbers or anything like that, I was talking from a gamedesign point of view and giving my feedback as a player. Vallaki has more taverns than it has outdoor areas, which I indeed consider to be overkill. I don't believe having so many taverns is beneficial for an RP server, as it decreases the chances of players bumping into another player when choosing to spend the night in one of them.
I am pretty sure I have already said all of this in the original post though, but perhaps I did not explain my feedback and observations clearly enough. I don't know what else there is to add.


As I already gave my feedback I think I will stop actively following this thread now, it is up to the development team to decide whether they want to take my feedback into account or not.


P.S. It is also possible for an establishment to relocate to another town, instead of removing it from the server. I think every other town in Barovia only has one tavern at the moment. Added this suggestion to the original post.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 03:53:27 PM by Feronius »

Lady Dwayna

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Re: Area - Vallaki, Tavern Overkill?
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2015, 03:41:44 PM »
Taverns are like Factions. For a time they are full and active and a center point of RP, and then they die down and then come back again in full force. It doesn't matter if there is one, or 20 Taverns, they are just areas. It's the players or rather the choices the "Characters" make that makes them important or not. I've been a part of the server since '05 or around that, and I can say for a fact, that Anglers, Broken Bell, Tigans, Blue Water, Ladies have all been a part of the server since the beginning. Nymph and the Drowned Rat? They were fairly new, but even they have their place in the world.

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Budly

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Re: Area - Vallaki, Tavern Overkill?
« Reply #59 on: April 18, 2015, 06:39:31 PM »
Quote
If The Drowned Rat and The Gaping Wound are locked again (although I think that has already been done for the latter) and if the door to The Broken Bell Inn's theatre is unlocked, this would already reduce the number of taverns to 7 instead of 9 and significantly reduce the competition / similarities between taverns without really detracting anything from the server. That would not be very time consuming to implement. I guess the Angler's Dive can just be left as is, apparently many players did not even know it exists.

Keep in mind that removing an area is removing someone's work and contribution. The Gaping Wound is supposed to be for events only and has been that way since it was created; it's 100% player staffed and serves an underground purpose. The Drowned Rat is a bit redundant but it was already in the module; we just added an interior. It doesn't really hurt anything to have it there, same as Anglers' Dive.

And you suggest adding a theater to the Broken Bell (well opening the theater); I don't see how that's consistent with your logic. You feel there are too many spots to roleplay in and too many inns, but you want to add a second theater when we have a functional one with its own faction already in Dementlieu. This would make them redundant and we don't have the server population to maintain two active theater troups. The Broken Bell Theater was created a long time ago when the server was still Vallaki-centric and had no other domains; it was created to generate roleplay of a different nature in the city and somewhat turn the Broken Bell into an alternate hub. Now that we have the Mist Camp and Dementlieu, we already have those alternate hubs so the Broken Bell is just another inn now and its theater can be used occasionally.

It was already in? Thought it was built from groudn up! Everything :O

I like the amount of "taverns". It shows that it is a town and not a village.

Feronius

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Re: Area - Vallaki, Tavern Overkill?
« Reply #60 on: April 19, 2015, 06:27:44 AM »
And you suggest adding a theater to the Broken Bell (well opening the theater); I don't see how that's consistent with your logic. You feel there are too many spots to roleplay in and too many inns, but you want to add a second theater when we have a functional one with its own faction already in Dementlieu. This would make them redundant and we don't have the server population to maintain two active theater troups. The Broken Bell Theater was created a long time ago when the server was still Vallaki-centric and had no other domains; it was created to generate roleplay of a different nature in the city and somewhat turn the Broken Bell into an alternate hub. Now that we have the Mist Camp and Dementlieu, we already have those alternate hubs so the Broken Bell is just another inn now and its theater can be used occasionally.

I completely missed this reply before, sorry.

First off, you are completely right about The Gaping Wound. Do keep in mind that new players (and possibly a large part of the existing players as well) do not posses any of the prior knowledge about taverns that may seem like common knowledge to the veteran player, they only see a bunch of empty taverns. But you are right, as The Gaping Wound is usually locked it should not really influence player behaviour.
And I suppose places like the Angler's Dive or The Drowned Rat are not actually places our characters are meant to be spending the night at.

Come to think of it, why do the NPCs there not return home at night (despawn) like they do in all the other shops in Vallaki? Wouldn't all the cafés and fish shops also lock up for the night?



Opening up the theatre would not increase the number of taverns nor the amount of spots where your character could end up spending the night, which was the concern in the original post, so that is consistent with earlier posts. It is just an additional unlocked room in an already existing inn. And you would still have to pass through The Broken Bell Inn to get in and out of the theatre, right?
Whenever my characters finds himself inside an empty building for the night checking the adjacent public rooms for other roleplayers is often the first thing I do.

I was suggesting to open up the theatre to give The Broken Bell Inn more of a purpose and some kind of unique selling point. Most of the other taverns all have their own unique attraction (gambling, brawling, exotic dancers, etc.) as well as their own niché, like being the go to place for shady folks or being the go to place for non-humans, but The Broken Bell Inn doesn't really have anything going for it. You could argue that The Broken Bell Inn is the go to place for ethnic Barovian commoners, but the same can be said for 6 of the other taverns. With the 'bard throne' in the Lady's Rest also being gone I thought it would be nice to have a tavern within Barovia that caters towards artistic characters more.
If the dev team believes it would be better to reserve The Broken Bell Inn's theatre for DM events, like with The Gaping Wound's fighting pit, fair enough. I was just throwing out some ideas.


I don't think you have to be worrid about The Broken Bell Inn turning into competition for any theatre in Port-à-Lucine by the way, the social scene in Dementlieu has always catered to a pretty specific (and different) type of roleplay. And everyone playing an artistic non-human character will still end up choosing Port-à-Lucine by default. Regardless, I didn't mean to suggest turning The Broken Bell Inn into a supported faction base or starting a theatre group.
By the way, isn't there a lot more competition closer to home that the Théatre de la Cathédrale should be worrying about? L'Artiste, the opera house, the outdoors theatre in the bay, that café for poets, the museum and probably a few more places within Port-à-Lucine itself all appeal towards the same type of artistic characters as the Théatre de la Cathédrale does. A Barovian inn with a theatre attached where throwing rotten fruit is considered modern is probably at the bottom of said list.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 06:30:09 AM by Feronius »