PC only raise by other PC

[Iluvatar / Madness]

I don't think the revival system is the problem here, and changing the revival system so only PC can raise other PC would just make it way harder for new PC and they would have to rely on high level PC. Some people might find it easier to find higher lvl pc because they've been playing with them for a long time but what about the new player who doesn't know anyone?


I don't think adding or removing stuff will change anything to the fact that people aren't scared to go outside at night. People will eventually adapt to the new system in place and thing will go back to normal after a while.

The fear of night is something that need to be RP'ed by player, there isn't any system that can do that for us. The only thing I can think of right now is, RP your char and give them the fear of night. By doing so other player will eventually follow you inside and who knows maybe their next char will also fear the night.

This is only a question of RP, the system currently in place doesn't need to be change. Encourage other to RP the fear of night by doing it yourself.

If you character isn't from the core, then he doesn't need to fear the night right away, he can learn to fear the night with time.

And even though many would like other to fear the night (me included), it's not something we can impose to other player, everyone is free to RP his or her as he see fits as long as the server rules are respected.

That said, I think the best way is to show the example and hope that other will follow   

[Destinysdesire]

Short of putting things outside at night that are scripted to appear at sunset and scripted to vanish at like 6am ig time that are unkillable.....nothing is gonna deter players that wanna say they ain't afraid of the night.

[Syl]

That is true.. we cannot make someone fear the night. As for the raises this wont change anything either and it is not helpful for the new players. especially when we have 1million ways to die on this server and low levels can easily die... mauled by craig cat.... killed by wolf... killed by trap.. fire beetles.. ants.. ( which is quiet the walk) Mice... ( if your really unlucky those buggers have a +4 ab) gramishkas... kobold.. bandits, hobgoblins, undead, EVEN THE WEATHER CAN KILL US!,( I guess we should be thankful it doesn't hail.) You all get the idea. for new people and characters a strong wind can kill them.

Making it so only players can raise them is painful and torture... because before... how many high level clerics walked around that could raise people? how many people had those misty orbs.... or those raise dead potions?!

what i'm getting at is there are more ways to raise a player now then before.. and most clerics need some kind of reason to bring people back. Mother Liz does it because MLs help people.

[The Prophet of Misinformation]

If you're not sufficiently fearful of the night, I'd suggest the following:

1. Obtain shovel.
2. Travel to Sithicus.
3. Dig 6' by 2" x 6' hole.
4. Wait for death.
5. Fill hole with corpse.

Repeat as necessary.

[Syl]

If you're not sufficiently fearful of the night, I'd suggest the following:

1. Obtain shovel.
2. Travel to Sithicus.
3. Dig 6' by 2" x 6' hole.
4. Wait for death.
5. Fill hole with corpse.

Repeat as necessary.

Sithicus is scary day OR Ngiht

[Syied]

A couple of disparate points:

I actually think the ABs of creatures are very well balanced for super lowbies. On a somewhat related note, I'm quite alright with the way death works, but - though I'm sure it's been discussed to death - I find a lot of things leading up to death are utterly trivialized by healbot NPCs/Lizuca. I like that such NPCs can (for an appropriate fee) raise PCs ad infinitum, but I don't like that they can heal and cure you ad infinitum such that when you DO die, it's more of a technical inconvenience than a matter of "Ohh, finally succumbed to the wounds of the previous three battles... my weary, cursed, diseased warrior can finally rest." Not to mention it makes a mockery of those healer PCs who offer to help people outside the temple when those to whom healing is offered say "Pfft nah it's okay I'll get Lizuca to do it." But I might be risking off-topicness here.

[Destinysdesire]

Actually, Liz will only heal you once every few hours, then tells you she cannot do it again or risk taking spells from others who may need it more then you do.

[Miuo]

May just be me, but from the way everyone talks about the place it doesnt seem scary. Just over powered to the point almost no one seems willing oocly/icly to go there. I find Barovia scarier, playing a high OCR char and almost running into the garda or being chased down .. . now that's a scary! And a fun thrill!

I am however being torn between this post and current methods of raising. I would loooooooooooooove to see more player dependent raising. . .But at the same time from a ooc stand point waiting for a cleric or herbalist to come on can seriously cripple rp time with people who have already demanding lives outside the game. Spending what time they do have to play here as a ghost waiting on someone to raise you seems a touch off putting.

Maybe find a way to make the NPC raising more of a second choice? Like double the cost, and keep player raises at the same as they are now? Or make Liz less dependable. Have her appearances be more random? Like shes only there between hours six to twelve, and then gone after that till the next cycle. Rp'ly she could be resting due to the exhaustion from helping so many or something. Same for all healers/raisers.

[Syied]

Actually, Liz will only heal you once every few hours, then tells you she cannot do it again or risk taking spells from others who may need it more then you do.

Really! I'm glad you told me, I might have gotten into a pickle. Maybe I would say tighten the grip on her healing even more, then, since it's seemed as good as infinite to me. The disease/curse cures are, anyway. To reiterate I feel like with the generous resting system and abundant npc healing out of combat, safety from the tension in between dangerous encounters is taken a bit for granted.

[Destinysdesire]

You must still be really early lvl, since it can take my lvl 8 two shots of healing from her plus rest to fully recover so that can take a number of hours.

[Arawn]

It's easier to bandage-food-campfire-bedroll-clothes back to full health.

[Iluvatar / Madness]

May just be me, but from the way everyone talks about the place it doesnt seem scary. Just over powered to the point almost no one seems willing oocly/icly to go there. I find Barovia scarier, playing a high OCR char and almost running into the garda or being chased down .. . now that's a scary! And a fun thrill!

And you are right... hehe, Radu is always there, watching, ready to jump on bad outlander WATCH YOUR BACK!!!

[Miuo]

Thats nothing ! At least you know he never moves. . . .player guards though.. . they scare the bejesus out of me D: Seeing them enter the ML, or decide to search the graveyard. . ..I hid in one of those Mausoleums once. . . .they came in even there D: I was trapped. . . . .That got my heart pumping as i had to try and flee with them trapping me in a tiny little space

It's easier to bandage-food-campfire-bedroll-clothes back to full health.

Campires help heal hp?

[Arawn]

Campires help heal hp?

So I've been told. I understand there are a number of factors that contribute to your health replenishment.

[Baium]

I am however being torn between this post and current methods of raising. I would loooooooooooooove to see more player dependent raising. . .But at the same time from a ooc stand point waiting for a cleric or herbalist to come on can seriously cripple rp time with people who have already demanding lives outside the game. Spending what time they do have to play here as a ghost waiting on someone to raise you seems a touch off putting.

YES... This is EXACTLY the problem I have a lot, I have a job, I only get to play when I get home from work, and then when I do end up doing a dungeon, I'm usually ok, otherwise I can someone end up staying up till 2am in the morning waiting for someone to drag my body to get my rezzed up again.

And lord forbid should I ever do this with BOOTS... EVERY TIME, a DM event appears....

Maybe find a way to make the NPC raising more of a second choice? Like double the cost, and keep player raises at the same as they are now? Or make Liz less dependable. Have her appearances be more random? Like shes only there between hours six to twelve, and then gone after that till the next cycle. Rp'ly she could be resting due to the exhaustion from helping so many or something. Same for all healers/raisers.

While I think this is a good idea, it has it's pro's and cons. perhaps the chance of getting zombie raises when raised by Liz is higher, and the cost of PC raising, is slightly lowered. This will push more people toward wanting a raise by a PC or Potion, rather then by NPC. However this also still presents two more problems. How often do you have a cleric / ressurecter that can help?, and how often do you find someone who's made those potions considering how freaken difficult they are to make.

It's a matter of how dependant do we want to become on socializing rather than the ability for a person to do the solo thing when they want.

Frankly, as a social anxiety sufferer myself who barely finds it easy to talk to people even in game, this does scare me a little.

[Destinysdesire]

I think something people here need to reflect on is because this IS a game, regardless of what is was designed to be like for mechanics, the RP we have all comes down to our personal choices, and personal preferences. Some of us IRL and this is something I know very well is reflected in our characters weather or not we mean to, if we are social butterflies in real life, we can mingle at parties, big at social events, can lead a conversation with great ease...these people will excel in finding groups in game to RP with, their chars will generally be a bit more confident and willing. As to where a person with an anti social disorder, someone that rarely speaks to others in real life, gets scared about confrontation, lives a hermit lifestyle preferring to stay away from the prying eyes of society (( Talking about myself in a nutshell )) it also reflects in their characters, they have a harder time getting involved in active RP or story lines until someone else breaches the RP, they easily become upset when RP standards they themselves hold themselves to as well as others go against them, they almost tend to play near invisible characters that either avoid confrontation as they do IRL or they will stick to RPing with specific people regardless of which character or how many characters they have. (( Again rather talking about myself )) There ARE players that do break this mold, though in looking at myself and watching others, many players meet these profiles. When you decide to make the system based entirely on players solely dependent on players, this can disrupt the play of the players that like myself are anti-social, and while we will RP with others, its not always easy to approach people and get going in RP. That said, I am fully against making raising dead players any harder then it has to be, not all of us can handle that much pressure. RP will come from RP, you want your cleric more out there and better known? More depended on for raising the dead and such, then get your cleric out there, put down notices that your cleric is looking to take an adventure with a stronger group. There are lots of IN Character ways to make people notice your cleric a good bit more, of all the clerics I have seen, I have seen all of 2 preach openly in the public, and that is a tip of my hat to Koltur and a while back there was another one that everyone called a nut for screaming at night (( sorry forgot the chars name, but you were totally awesome )) That is what draws players attention to clerics, actively making yourself known.

[Delete Me]

I am however being torn between this post and current methods of raising. I would loooooooooooooove to see more player dependent raising. . .But at the same time from a ooc stand point waiting for a cleric or herbalist to come on can seriously cripple rp time with people who have already demanding lives outside the game. Spending what time they do have to play here as a ghost waiting on someone to raise you seems a touch off putting.

YES... This is EXACTLY the problem I have a lot, I have a job, I only get to play when I get home from work, and then when I do end up doing a dungeon, I'm usually ok, otherwise I can someone end up staying up till 2am in the morning waiting for someone to drag my body to get my rezzed up again.

And lord forbid should I ever do this with BOOTS... EVERY TIME, a DM event appears....

Maybe find a way to make the NPC raising more of a second choice? Like double the cost, and keep player raises at the same as they are now? Or make Liz less dependable. Have her appearances be more random? Like shes only there between hours six to twelve, and then gone after that till the next cycle. Rp'ly she could be resting due to the exhaustion from helping so many or something. Same for all healers/raisers.

While I think this is a good idea, it has it's pro's and cons. perhaps the chance of getting zombie raises when raised by Liz is higher, and the cost of PC raising, is slightly lowered. This will push more people toward wanting a raise by a PC or Potion, rather then by NPC. However this also still presents two more problems. How often do you have a cleric / ressurecter that can help?, and how often do you find someone who's made those potions considering how freaken difficult they are to make.

It's a matter of how dependant do we want to become on socializing rather than the ability for a person to do the solo thing when they want.

Frankly, as a social anxiety sufferer myself who barely finds it easy to talk to people even in game, this does scare me a little.

  getting trashed by a dm, or a dungeon is hard enough  to resolve. I'm active duty navy and the only reason I have the luxurious play time that I do right now is because I am on convalescent leave due to knee surgeey. When I get back to work playtime is sporadic and when a misstep happens, I don't want to have to think about losing a wink because it's been made harder. Rather not.

Also traveling with the pretty bootsaloo is liable to end in your death regardless of her antics. She is stalked by our dear dungeon masters and we all know that mac likes to hit people with a sledge hammer. Hah

[MAB77]

I doubt there is any satisfactory way to resolve this debate to everyone's consensus. We all have our views on the matter, and I'm willing to bet that there is little that I would say that would sway anyone's mind. Personally, I find that compared to all other NWN servers I've played on, PotM surprisingly has the most lenient "Death" rules of all. It is however counterbalanced by the general harshness of the setting, as well as the enormous amount of time it takes between leveling and the balance is fine like it is. Also, the lower levels are brutal, risks of dying are higher and the raising costs prohibitive. Making access to raises more difficult by restricting its availability or cost (in both gold or XP) would only cause grief and would not improve the server experience in any significant ways. Nor do I find the idea of the recovery time in-game to be longer than it already is appealing. Peoples want to play, not to be helpless for hours.

In the end, we'll always come back to the root of the issue that players do not fear to die because there are only a fews ways for a character to die permanently. This is a consequence of the perfectly valid choice, made long ago, that players should not be forced to retire a character if they they do not wish to. A principle I certainly uphold, even though I am a strong proponent of urging players to terminate their high level characters to try something else. Forcing them to do so though will always be out of the question.

To induce some fear of death, you'd have to take out something that can never be regained or only in a limited manner. Maybe something as simple as a 1% chance/level per revival to lose a permanent point of constitution could indeed bring back some fear of dying on the server. That potential loss may have a chance to make people think twice before attempting something dangerous. But then, the drawback flaw is that infamously dangerous dungeons such as the Sithican salt mines would be attempted even more rarely than they are now. Is that really what we want? I don't think so either.

I also doubt any computer game mechanic can ever induce a true fear of dying, they cause only more grief than enjoyment. Someone else said it well, role-play is a matter of personal choices, and personal preferences. For the rest, fear of the Barovian night is always at its best when tenderly administered by our dear DMs.

I think the system we already have in place for revivals works well. It served us well for years and needs not to change. As for the lacking fear of death debate, we might as well end right now because we are beating a thrice-dead horse!
(Whom incidently no longer cares about dying, and would probably not even if revived, since he'd likely wish to die again than take another needless beating...)

[DrXavierTColtrane]

I also doubt any computer game mechanic can ever induce a true fear of dying, they cause only more grief than enjoyment. Someone else said it well, role-play is a matter of personal choices, and personal preferences. For the rest, fear of the Barovian night is always at its best when tenderly administered by our dear DMs.

I agree. One person I play NWN with regularly simply has a videogame, multiple-lives mentality (it seems to me anyway). His perception of danger is so colored by that he doesn't even recall our history together (success versus failure) accurately and consequently always over-estimates his ability to take on foes. It's like the compulsive gambler who remembers only those times when his longshots won and not the more often times when they lost. This creates some more-than-heated exchanges between us because of my greater fear of dying.

Before you'd deter someone like him, you'd have to make the "casino" almost no fun at all for everyone else--especially someone like me. And again as you rightly point out, difficulty increases will always be felt the most by the truly new characters, who are always the most likely to die, lack personal resources, and don't yet have relationships with other players to mentor or otherwise help them get going.

Those who have been here a really long time and have built super characters might create a new login and new character and try the server for a bit without ever taking advantage of relationships they've built up over time. (It would be nice if they also didn't use information that only old hands know, but that's impossible without a memory wipe.) Doing this might help them rediscover perspective because -- while I'm a three-month newbie here -- I've been around online communities much longer. It is very, very hard to keep them going, and POTM is to be congratulated on its long life. I've not seen too many that don't wither from old hands slowly drifting away and new folks feeling unwelcome.

The built-in shrinking of the NWN player base makes the challenge for POTM even more difficult.