You have been taken by the Mists

Author Topic: Borcan- Italian names?  (Read 3605 times)

--GlamRock--

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
Borcan- Italian names?
« on: January 14, 2015, 07:26:43 AM »
As an Italian citizen, I would like to offer some suggestions when selecting names which should sound likely, also according to some basic things of Italian names and surnames which, of course, I'm probably more aware of.

The most typical and spread Italian family names are those with colours. Bianchi, Rossi, Verdi, etc (white, red, green). Giallo, Arancione, Blu are not found (yellow, orange, blue), while even if rare you can find some Marrone (brown). Viola (purple) is not uncommon in the South.

Most Italian family names end in -i. But this is something which, originally, was mostly spread in the North of Italy. If you are thinking Borca as Italian Renaissance, you really should think about Northern and Central Italy, since in the South there was a Kingdom often under the rule of Spanish, French, Arabs, according to several different periods of history. Northern and Central Italy can still have some surnames ending with other vowels. But they always end in vowel anyway.

De, Di as preposition, means of. Sometimes it is originated by the first name of a founder of a family. You can use an apostrophe, thus D', but normally it happens only if the following word begins with another vowel: it can happen there is a consonant, but then the following name should be plural: the plurals in Italian are mostly in -i (masculine) and -e (feminine).

Sometimes Italian names and surnames have a digraph, -gl- or -gn- which actually are sound not existing in English (it is more or less as the Spanish word pollo, the first, and Espana [with the tilde] for the second). Che and Chi are read Ke and Ki; Ce and Ci are read Che and Chi; Qu- normally is Ku- (plus another vowel).

Some Italian surnames have origin in some town or city, they are normally related to the Jewish community who, in the past, changed their own surname to "thank" the places which welcomed them.

Italian typical first names more or less are mostly originated from Latin or Ancient Greek, there are only a few coming from other languages. In my view I do believe they should be used more for a Darkonian than a Borcan.

Yes, this is another point I would like to stress. Even though Borca is clearly inspired to Renaissance Italy, the language is not, and thus not even the names should be. As far as I know it would be preferable to use first and family names related to Serbo-Croatian language. Ivan, Ivana, Boris are not your typical Italian name. Boritsi or Dilisnya is not either. You don't find easily the following letters in Italian: w, y, x, k. You can find some "j" here and there in names.

Given the setting origin of Borca it'd be, in my view, more advisable to use names which are of Barovian (Balok) or High Mordentish origin, because the other names I see normally sound, at least to me, more related to Darkon than Borca itself.

I am ready for any feedback or other information if needed.
https://www.facebook.com/CiaranII

(Being drunk partially legitimates you as a philosopher - someone you wouldn't expect!)

Olywynn

  • Likes to say "Nyeh heh heh!"
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 725
  • Nyeh heh heh!
Re: Borcan- Italian names?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2015, 09:09:14 AM »
You'd be right, if not for the fact that the lore naming conventions for Borca are, in fact, Italian.  I get where you're coming from, but that's how Ravenloft's devs set up that particular domain.  The major names you listed are Romanian in origin because they are originally from Barovia.

Dread

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 9137
Re: Borcan- Italian names?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2015, 10:03:18 AM »
I've heard Croatian names are generally best for Borcan nomenclature but I obviously don't mind Italian being used, as it's clear where they drew inspiration from when making the domain.

Geiger

  • Guest
Re: Borcan- Italian names?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2015, 10:03:42 AM »
They have a couple of Arturo, Salvatore, but on the whole they have some very brutal and indelicate names like CHESLAV, STEPKA, FREDRIK. Borcan's are at their heart a Balok speaking, in fact they are the rich, well-off cousin to the Barovian.

If anyone has Gaz. IV, page. 27, where they describe Borcan characters - most of the names there are of some generic Slavic origin, with a couple of generic Frenchy names tossed in. Borca isn't Italian, it simply EMULATES something that is supposed to represent some sort of quasi-italy during the Borgia period, which, is in fact where Borca got its name, Borjia (when it was still part of Barovia.)

Borca on the real-real is just a Mordentish influenced, Balok speaking people.

In the same way Invidians are not spanish people, but Balok speaking, 'Old Kartakan influenced', people.

The countries of the Core are not 1:1 places with the real world. There are influences - but Falkovnian isn't Germany, Lamordia isn't the Netherlands or Switzerland.

--GlamRock--

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
Re: Borcan- Italian names?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2015, 11:05:30 AM »
Yeah actually what I meant is: I'd rather not see too many Italian names related to Borca, but if they are used at least they could be more Italian sounding :)
https://www.facebook.com/CiaranII

(Being drunk partially legitimates you as a philosopher - someone you wouldn't expect!)

herkles

  • Society of the Erudite
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 7354
Re: Borcan- Italian names?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2015, 11:25:53 AM »
Yeah actually what I meant is: I'd rather not see too many Italian names related to Borca, but if they are used at least they could be more Italian sounding :)

When I create characters I tend to use Saint Gabriel's name archive. It is pretty extensive, and they are all sourced from medieval and renaissance documents too. Here is theItalian name section btw :)

though Speaking of names, this does bring up something I wanted to discuss. A fair number of names are from christianity, from the names of saints, like Mary and all her varations, to the name Christian itself. However in Ravenloft we do not have christanity, though we do have the Church of Ezra. For instance would the name Yakov be a popular name? what of Felix(2nd) Joan(3rd sect) and Teodorus(4th) and there varations? what of the name Ezran?

Just something I thought to discuss.


Bluebomber4evr

  • Head DM, Developer and Ravenloft Trivia Guru/Community Council
  • Administrator
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 20622
    • http://www.nwnravenloft.com
Re: Borcan- Italian names?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2015, 12:45:21 PM »
Borca is inspired by Italy during the time that Alexander VI was pope. Alexander VI's birth name was Rodrigo Borgia. Borca's co-darklords are based on Rodrigo Borgia (Ivan Dilisnya) and Rodrigo's daughter Lucrezia (Ivana Boritsi).

Of course, when the designers at TSR first created the Ravenloft setting, they gave most of the domains a generic Eastern European feel (with the exception of the obvious French-inspired domains in the west), regardless of the inspiration. Later designers gave more specific nods to Italy to Borca. The explanation being that Borcans had a Barovian origin but were enamored of the Dementlieuse culture and incorporated much of their culture into their own. The co-mingling of Barovian and Dementlieuse cultures gave Borca a quasi-Italian culture.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 12:47:07 PM by Bluebomber4evr »

Bluebomber4evr: The Justice, not you, since 2002