Level progression

[DM Cataclysm]

Some of the best RP I've experienced on the server has happened while in a dungeon. As a mysterious old wise man once said - RP and combat are not mutually exclusive. My main issue with leveling at a slower pace is that you're stuck in the same areas for a long time. Instead of being able to move to a more difficult location and adventure somewhere like the Terg Ruins (coincidentally, two of my all time favorite RP encounters happened there - during 2 separate NCE's!), you're stuck adventuring to the same areas repeatedly. If anything, I think that runs more of a risk making RP go stale.

[EO]

Some of the best RP I've experienced on the server has happened while in a dungeon. As a mysterious old wise man once said - RP and combat are not mutually exclusive. My main issue with leveling at a slower pace is that you're stuck in the same areas for a long time. Instead of being able to move to a more difficult location and adventure somewhere like the Terg Ruins (coincidentally, two of my all time favorite RP encounters happened there - during 2 separate NCE's!), you're stuck adventuring to the same areas repeatedly. If anything, I think that runs more of a risk making RP go stale.

That's a good point but at the same time we see the same groups of people doing the same dungeons at high levels over and over again, dungeons that are known to have the best reward to risk ratio, while neglecting other high level dungeons that have a lower reward to risk ratio. I'm not saying you're part of those groups but it's a tendency we observe as DMs and devs (since we compile stats on all dungeons).

[EO]

To be fair the only thing I was doing by posting was acknowledging that I also perceive a change in how fast we're getting XP capped at low levels. It effects my ability or desire to dungeon in no way at all, its just noticeable.

And I still maintain this has nothing to do with role play. Dungeoning and role playing aren't mutually exclusive unless you chose to make them so.

I haven't seen or heard from Soren this week. He'd be able to answer the original question.

Judging by the initial post, it'd take 7 days to hit 6. Most people who have stopped playing due to caps after 4-5 days were around level 4, which means that in 4-5 days they went from level 2 to somewhere in 4; if the progression is normal, in the remaining 2-3 days, they'd go from 4 to the beginning of 6 if they kept playing. One week to hit level 6 seems very reasonable to me.

[Zwickelfaust]

I used to worry about leveling. I think it's perfect the way it is. The levels come. They don't matter as much, the rp does.

[Dumas]

What is the average hourly game play time for that 7 days to hit level 6 though from the original post? Is that based off 2 hours a day, 5 hours a day... Different time will quickly add up.

[EO]

What is the average hourly game play time for that 7 days to hit level 6 though from the original post? Is that based off 2 hours a day, 5 hours a day... Different time will quickly add up.

A day is 24 hours. Think of it as the amount of XP per day you need to get from 2 to 6 in seven days. That'd be a cap of 2000 XP per day if I'm not mistaken. Of course it's not that linear since your cap probably decreases a bit with each level but it would be around that.

[Bad_Bud]

I created my character the first day of NCW, so it's been a week. My character is level 4 (about 25% to 5) and still capped.

[McNastea]

It seems to me that you're making the presumption that rp and dungeoning are mutually exclusive-which they are not.

They're not at all and you're right, so why stop dungeoning when you stop getting XP or start getting less XP?

If people enjoy dungeoning, which is quite fine, then why stop doing it when there's no XP? To me, it says that it's not dungeoning that people like, it's the XP gains.

I haven't stopped dungeoning though, and never have because of the cap-as I said earlier when I agreed with Chuuch. Dante was on blind drive at level 7 and never got off it again until very very recently when I stopped playing him as much in favor of other characters. All I said was that it seems weird to hit blind drive before you're even past lvl 3

[FinalHeaven]

To be fair the only thing I was doing by posting was acknowledging that I also perceive a change in how fast we're getting XP capped at low levels. It effects my ability or desire to dungeon in no way at all, its just noticeable.

And I still maintain this has nothing to do with role play. Dungeoning and role playing aren't mutually exclusive unless you chose to make them so.

I haven't seen or heard from Soren this week. He'd be able to answer the original question.

Judging by the initial post, it'd take 7 days to hit 6. Most people who have stopped playing due to caps after 4-5 days were around level 4, which means that in 4-5 days they went from level 2 to somewhere in 4; if the progression is normal, in the remaining 2-3 days, they'd go from 4 to the beginning of 6 if they kept playing. One week to hit level 6 seems very reasonable to me.

Actually to be honest when you put it this way I'm less convinced there has been a change.  Under normal conditions outside of NCE I usually get a character to level 8 in about a week.  My NCE character now is about half way to 6 I'd estimate and I definitely haven't dungeon'd as much.

Perhaps it's just the rate at which one gains XP?  Like if you go to 3 dungeons that give a large amount one after the other, as opposed to several dungeons that give a lesser amount.  You'd notice the cap faster?

[Arawn]

To be fair the only thing I was doing by posting was acknowledging that I also perceive a change in how fast we're getting XP capped at low levels. It effects my ability or desire to dungeon in no way at all, its just noticeable.

And I still maintain this has nothing to do with role play. Dungeoning and role playing aren't mutually exclusive unless you chose to make them so.

I haven't seen or heard from Soren this week. He'd be able to answer the original question.

Judging by the initial post, it'd take 7 days to hit 6. Most people who have stopped playing due to caps after 4-5 days were around level 4, which means that in 4-5 days they went from level 2 to somewhere in 4; if the progression is normal, in the remaining 2-3 days, they'd go from 4 to the beginning of 6 if they kept playing. One week to hit level 6 seems very reasonable to me.

Actually to be honest when you put it this way I'm less convinced there has been a change.  Under normal conditions outside of NCE I usually get a character to level 8 in about a week.  My NCE character now is about half way to 6 I'd estimate and I definitely haven't dungeon'd as much.

Perhaps it's just the rate at which one gains XP?  Like if you go to 3 dungeons that give a large amount one after the other, as opposed to several dungeons that give a lesser amount.  You'd notice the cap faster?

Well, one thing I've seen this NCE is even more than most NCEs a tendency to dungeon in truly massive groups. Keep in mind that for every PC after six you keep in your party, you're losing a chunk of XP.

[Iluvatar / Madness]

To be fair the only thing I was doing by posting was acknowledging that I also perceive a change in how fast we're getting XP capped at low levels. It effects my ability or desire to dungeon in no way at all, its just noticeable.

And I still maintain this has nothing to do with role play. Dungeoning and role playing aren't mutually exclusive unless you chose to make them so.

I haven't seen or heard from Soren this week. He'd be able to answer the original question.

Judging by the initial post, it'd take 7 days to hit 6. Most people who have stopped playing due to caps after 4-5 days were around level 4, which means that in 4-5 days they went from level 2 to somewhere in 4; if the progression is normal, in the remaining 2-3 days, they'd go from 4 to the beginning of 6 if they kept playing. One week to hit level 6 seems very reasonable to me.

Actually to be honest when you put it this way I'm less convinced there has been a change.  Under normal conditions outside of NCE I usually get a character to level 8 in about a week.  My NCE character now is about half way to 6 I'd estimate and I definitely haven't dungeon'd as much.

Perhaps it's just the rate at which one gains XP?  Like if you go to 3 dungeons that give a large amount one after the other, as opposed to several dungeons that give a lesser amount.  You'd notice the cap faster?

Well, one thing I've seen this NCE is even more than most NCEs a tendency to dungeon in truly massive groups. Keep in mind that for every PC after six you keep in your party, you're losing a chunk of XP.

Let's you are more then six PC in a dungeon and get less XP, it should take more time than if you were less than 6 to reach the cap logically... Unless there is something I don't know about how the system is made, which is likely the case, but logically the only impact of being more than 6 should be getting less XP. In theory, if you get less XP it takes longer to reach the cap, no?

[HellsPanda]

The reason you get massive groups, is because there are alot of players in the range. And most of us want to be inclusive. And while yes you get less dungeon xp you get more rp xp, which should keep the xp rate to the cap at a slower pace.

[Crimson Shuriken]

Its true 

There have been a few instances of a group of dwarves 4-5 strong that could successfully complete just about all the areas that NCE encompasses, having other random PCs with them along for the ride.
Being inclusive of others is more important (to me at least) than thinking in terms of party composition affecting xp gains.

My NCE character is a smidge to go for level 6.  Was created last Friday, so one week.  He is capped of some sort, but he verbiage is lost on me since it changed.
I feel the progression is fine.  If anything, what is important to me is to get to 5 on this server, as long as that is something accomplished in a week or two then fair enough.


My real concern is my level 17, who has been 17 for a year lol.  I don't dungeon very much with her, but I would like rp to sustain a FAIRLY consistent progress, at least see a message go up a quarter or so. 
Following NCE I plan on being much more active and dynamic/faction type play so maybe that will kick in some progress again for her. Or maybe I will gain a fancy for slaying demons again.

[Vasile]

It doesn't sound like the cap was adjusted at all. It's pretty normal to get capped out at lower levels if you're grinding xp like I imagine you all are for NCE. It's even more normal to have that cap remain for days/weeks. I'm surprised all these potm vets don't know this already. 

[Time_Stomped]

I think of think there could be less of a penalty to larger groups, especially if they are going for more challenging stuff that's likely at the appropriate CR rating of the entire group combined.  Having big groups can be fun and can include people.  No one complains about big groups in NCW, unless they are monsters hearing the outskirts bell.  Huge groups should be an option for progression as long as they are doing high spawns.

They're also big targets for DM stuff, so it's all good.

[Merry Munchkin]

I think of think there could be less of a penalty to larger groups, especially if they are going for more challenging stuff that's likely at the appropriate CR rating of the entire group combined.  Having big groups can be fun and can include people.  No one complains about big groups in NCW, unless they are monsters hearing the outskirts bell.  Huge groups should be an option for progression as long as they are doing high spawns.

They're also big targets for DM stuff, so it's all good.

Well, I have actually heard a bit of grumpiness about big groups -- the massive runs through the crypts and such are borderline ridiculous with the sheer numbers of characters that pile in.  I think people join big groups in NCE not necessarily because they like them, but because they can't afford not to join -- if they wait, the spawns will get cleared by others over and over and over again, and the player gets left out.

Personally, anything more than 6-7 characters maximum starts to get too crowded and out of hand, especially when everyone experiences different lag/latency issues.  I actualy prefer slightly smaller groups of 5 or 6.  Some of the best runs I have ever enjoyed were with 3 people.

[Miuo]

Id agree, 3-4 seems the ideal party size. Big enough to handle most things but small enough to easily keep track of everyone and keep up with what rp is going on.

[booksarefun666]

I think of think there could be less of a penalty to larger groups, especially if they are going for more challenging stuff that's likely at the appropriate CR rating of the entire group combined.  Having big groups can be fun and can include people.  No one complains about big groups in NCW, unless they are monsters hearing the outskirts bell.  Huge groups should be an option for progression as long as they are doing high spawns.

They're also big targets for DM stuff, so it's all good.

Well, I have actually heard a bit of grumpiness about big groups -- the massive runs through the crypts and such are borderline ridiculous with the sheer numbers of characters that pile in.  I think people join big groups in NCE not necessarily because they like them, but because they can't afford not to join -- if they wait, the spawns will get cleared by others over and over and over again, and the player gets left out.

Personally, anything more than 6-7 characters maximum starts to get too crowded and out of hand, especially when everyone experiences different lag/latency issues.  I actualy prefer slightly smaller groups of 5 or 6.  Some of the best runs I have ever enjoyed were with 3 people.

I loathe big groups because it always ends with a yahoo running back up the stairs about how every skeleton is a skeletal knight.

[Better Dread than Dead]

Hey now, don't knock all large groups. I was a part of a really good one, and I think our roleplay as a whole was so on point that a DM provided spice for us with the dungeon run.

[MatticusCaesar]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

*hangs in frame next to other framed comment from this thread*

[Invests in emptyanima's new framing company]

[peps]

I'm willing to enjoy slow early levels if other people are similarly leveled. That's what makes NCE's so entertaining for me. I have a very hard time enjoying being as low leveled and slow when I'm in the company of much higher levels, because I feel suuuuper fragile and useless.

This right here. I'm having to sacrifice roleplay just to keep up. If I don't keep up, my character will eventually be left in the dust when other characters move to other domains.

[Lucadia]

If the pcs your hanging out with are not willing to wait on your pc, I would suspect they are not the crowd you was intended to impressed. Those that want move to other areas ahead of time will do so.

[Iluvatar / Madness]

I'm willing to enjoy slow early levels if other people are similarly leveled. That's what makes NCE's so entertaining for me. I have a very hard time enjoying being as low leveled and slow when I'm in the company of much higher levels, because I feel suuuuper fragile and useless.

This right here. I'm having to sacrifice roleplay just to keep up. If I don't keep up, my character will eventually be left in the dust when other characters move to other domains.

Even when my character is underlevel for an area if my character friends are going, I still go. Even you can't do much in terms of battle, you can still RP and get free XP without risking to die in battle since you stay behind.

Wizard and sorcerers stays behind all the time, they provide wards then get behind, cast a few spell, but otherwise they don't do much in a battle.

I'm having to sacrifice roleplay just to keep up.

And this, if you really have because to sacrifice Roleplay to keep up with other, then maybe you should try hanging with other people who level at rate closer to your. There is no point in playing a Roleplay game if you never get the chance to Roleplay 

[julienchab]

Wizard and sorcerers stays behind all the time, they provide wards then get behind, cast a few spell, but otherwise they don't do much in a battle.

Mostly true at lower levels, but once a wizard or sorc is around lvl 12-13, a player that knows what he is doing will be a huge asset in some fights. Try doing the last room of the Harvest Temple without a mage throwing fireballs around... you'll have a hard time!!!

Wizards and Sorcerers really start doing more in battles around those levels, but then, their power is exponential and they are the ones that can win a lose a battle most of time(i know same can be said of everyone in a balance group, but still)

[BahamutZ3RO]

Wizard and sorcerers stays behind all the time, they provide wards then get behind, cast a few spell, but otherwise they don't do much in a battle.

Mostly true at lower levels, but once a wizard or sorc is around lvl 12-13, a player that knows what he is doing will be a huge asset in some fights. Try doing the last room of the Harvest Temple without a mage throwing fireballs around... you'll have a hard time!!!

Wizards and Sorcerers really start doing more in battles around those levels, but then, their power is exponential and they are the ones that can win a lose a battle most of time(i know same can be said of everyone in a balance group, but still)

This is actually true at all points of the game. A well-placed Grease or Sleep or Web can make a big difference in a big fight in the early game.