Author Topic: Level progression  (Read 38216 times)

Jeebs

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #75 on: January 06, 2015, 06:44:11 PM »
Low levels are really good for initial character development, with leveling being a good way to represent the character growing as a character.

That is in part why it never bothered me that I was levelling so much more slowly than others. I actually feel a real sense of achievement when I gain a level after months of playing. It feels like there was a journey, and things were learned. Just doesn't have the same feeling to it when you gain 3-4 levels in a week.

Super Sugar

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #76 on: January 06, 2015, 08:00:40 PM »
For people who gain XP slowly and are concerned, I think the solution would be more along the lines of increasing the XP reduction for blind drive, that wouldn't effect you guys nearly as much.

I think this may appease most of the people on this thread, and the most different types of play styles honestly, because it's only effecting the people it's already meant to effect, just for a bit more. It's probably also one of the easiest changes to actually implement without it being too unbalanced to preexisting characters.

I agree with this.
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Re: Level progression
« Reply #77 on: January 07, 2015, 01:02:25 AM »
Low levels are really good for initial character development, with leveling being a good way to represent the character growing as a character.

That is in part why it never bothered me that I was levelling so much more slowly than others. I actually feel a real sense of achievement when I gain a level after months of playing. It feels like there was a journey, and things were learned. Just doesn't have the same feeling to it when you gain 3-4 levels in a week.

Getting 3 -4 lvl in week just happened with the first 4 lvl try leveling from lvl 10 to 14 in a week impossible you even get enough XP to lvl up once. I used to play a server in which you could make XP really quickly (before finding Ravenloft) and getting the 10 000 xp to pass from lvl 10 to 11 would take about a week and the rate at which we gained XP was 10 time faster then here already did lvl 1 to 6 in 1 day  :P   i personnaly that the rate at which we gain lvl is fine i feel if it take a month to gain 1 lvl yes maybe you get a sense of achievment though it would get boring with time because it would take far to much just get a char with enought firepower to explore place where you actualy get a challenge and where you have fun fighitng strong creature
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vlaadfolth

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #78 on: January 07, 2015, 01:53:50 AM »
Yep.
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Re: Level progression
« Reply #79 on: January 07, 2015, 04:06:28 AM »
I believe this matter is quite complex and there cannot be a unique point of view, of course.

Mine is this. The level progression of this server has always been quite slow, especially for the higher levels, but also for the first levels: I managed to hit level 6 during the NCE but it was circumstantial, since I'm aware in the same time I would have hit probably level 4 if high levels were around. There was more possibilities for RP and there were parties more balanced while dungeoning, this is my opinion.

I've been playing here with occasional interruptions for 8 years by now and I admit when the server was smaller (no Dementlieu, Hazlan, Har-Akir, Sithicus, Blaustein, Perfidius, Wachter's lands, not many dungeons in Village of Barovia etc), there were just a few areas which could grant decent xps for dungeoning, and once you hit some level 14-15 dungeoning became hardly rewarding at all. At that time there were even no crafts, if not smithing, and herbalism was something new (probably around 6-7 years ago), alchemy came even later, magical weapons were rarer. Believe me if you were not there, it was not easy at all to even yearn at lev 20. Yet there were people who managed.

Now the situation is clearly different, many things have changed, and some things are easier: if you don't find a good spawn, you may check the other dozens dungeons for your levels. If you need to lift the cap of your characters, you may commit to one of the exhaustive crafts.

The sense of progression here is mainly related to the stories, there are some who, more favourable in time zones, are more involved than others, but the server is never empty; our biography boards are full with many interesting stories of the players, most of them are things which have happened in game.

However I am with Prophet here, there is also a sense of satisfaction in the mechanical progression, for a series of reasons which have been widely stated already (the need of some skills, feats, etc to shape the character more, for instance), and sometimes some of us (me included) cannot really spend more than a couple of hours daily here, and making things harder would easily spoil part of the fun.

On the other hand there is a matter of attitude, and as an Italian I'm well aware of this. You can find even the most complex algorythm to have a proper balance on progression or whatever, but those who have the proper skills to level up faster will do anyway, while those who are already slow in levelling will be just slower. The attitude, in general, which should be changed is that levelling up is more important than the shared narrative we're all involved in: level progression, in my view, is good as it is, and something more could be done by us players. However I admit some dungeons could be tweaked in terms of reward/danger. I personally do not have any lev 20 in my vault, my max level character is a 19 which I have used extensively for 2-3 years, when I could commit up to 8 hours daily, but I never complained of her being slow: she was part of some of the most fun stories I was ever involved. I was hungry for stories and involvement. Had she been slower, yes, I would have enjoyed the stories as well, but for sure she would have been less "shaped" in the mechanical build (and this doesn't mean anything necessarily related to fighting but also social skills).

In my view things should remain the same, with some tweaking here and there. But however things are done and decided, I fully trust in the Developing team wider vision, and I will, personally, try as usual to be happy with the stories around my characters.
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Re: Level progression
« Reply #80 on: January 07, 2015, 05:02:16 AM »
I believe this matter is quite complex and there cannot be a unique point of view, of course.

Mine is this. The level progression of this server has always been quite slow, especially for the higher levels, but also for the first levels: I managed to hit level 6 during the NCE but it was circumstantial, since I'm aware in the same time I would have hit probably level 4 if high levels were around. There was more possibilities for RP and there were parties more balanced while dungeoning, this is my opinion.

I've been playing here with occasional interruptions for 8 years by now and I admit when the server was smaller (no Dementlieu, Hazlan, Har-Akir, Sithicus, Blaustein, Perfidius, Wachter's lands, not many dungeons in Village of Barovia etc), there were just a few areas which could grant decent xps for dungeoning, and once you hit some level 14-15 dungeoning became hardly rewarding at all. At that time there were even no crafts, if not smithing, and herbalism was something new (probably around 6-7 years ago), alchemy came even later, magical weapons were rarer. Believe me if you were not there, it was not easy at all to even yearn at lev 20. Yet there were people who managed.

Now the situation is clearly different, many things have changed, and some things are easier: if you don't find a good spawn, you may check the other dozens dungeons for your levels. If you need to lift the cap of your characters, you may commit to one of the exhaustive crafts.

The sense of progression here is mainly related to the stories, there are some who, more favourable in time zones, are more involved than others, but the server is never empty; our biography boards are full with many interesting stories of the players, most of them are things which have happened in game.

However I am with Prophet here, there is also a sense of satisfaction in the mechanical progression, for a series of reasons which have been widely stated already (the need of some skills, feats, etc to shape the character more, for instance), and sometimes some of us (me included) cannot really spend more than a couple of hours daily here, and making things harder would easily spoil part of the fun.

On the other hand there is a matter of attitude, and as an Italian I'm well aware of this. You can find even the most complex algorythm to have a proper balance on progression or whatever, but those who have the proper skills to level up faster will do anyway, while those who are already slow in levelling will be just slower. The attitude, in general, which should be changed is that levelling up is more important than the shared narrative we're all involved in: level progression, in my view, is good as it is, and something more could be done by us players. However I admit some dungeons could be tweaked in terms of reward/danger. I personally do not have any lev 20 in my vault, my max level character is a 19 which I have used extensively for 2-3 years, when I could commit up to 8 hours daily, but I never complained of her being slow: she was part of some of the most fun stories I was ever involved. I was hungry for stories and involvement. Had she been slower, yes, I would have enjoyed the stories as well, but for sure she would have been less "shaped" in the mechanical build (and this doesn't mean anything necessarily related to fighting but also social skills).

In my view things should remain the same, with some tweaking here and there. But however things are done and decided, I fully trust in the Developing team wider vision, and I will, personally, try as usual to be happy with the stories around my characters.

Well said.

About blind drive comments. Instead of worsening the blind drive, maybe one should consider the possibility of tweaking the other side : those who are 'behind the schedule' (strong desire to seek new adventures etc.) could get even more XP as a bonus...

emptyanima

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #81 on: January 07, 2015, 05:14:43 AM »
I am pretty sure that characters who haven't dungeoned for a long time are rewarded with bonus XP when they do, but I am not sure how much or if I am just imagining the effect.

DM Cataclysm

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #82 on: January 07, 2015, 08:49:03 AM »
I am pretty sure that characters who haven't dungeoned for a long time are rewarded with bonus XP when they do, but I am not sure how much or if I am just imagining the effect.

There is an xp bonus, when your rest message states something along the lines of 'You've been neglecting your path and have a strong desire to seek new adventures.' I think it gives a small boost in xp earned and increases the period you can go before hitting a cap on the other side.

I've always really appreciated these bonuses! Several of my characters have been locked away for weeks or months at a time, learning certain crafts. Occasionally you can get people to come and RP with you during the process (thanks Cloud, Sokol, and several of Taylor's characters!) - but primarily you don't advance in levels much at all since a lot of practicing is done solo. It is nice that once you start adventuring again, you can get a little boost to try to catch up.

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #83 on: November 05, 2015, 12:17:25 AM »
I have noticed a stronger cap at lower levels. Is it intentional? I got my NCE character to level 4 in two days, playing off and on. Then I decided to stop playing until the was uncapped. It's been four days now, and the character is still capped. The character has existed longer in a state of capped than uncapped.

I haven't noticed much difference in my higher level characters.

Miuo

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #84 on: November 05, 2015, 06:37:41 AM »
I rather like it how it is, but if it took longer that would be nice to. One of the things i absolutely love about potm is how long it takes to level.

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #85 on: November 05, 2015, 07:17:55 AM »
Changing it will effect nothing because the percentage of people who level grind will still do so ,and the people who don't will still not grind. As a result the people doing so will still level faster than those that don't. Did that make any sense its early so i might be rambling?

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #86 on: November 05, 2015, 08:31:47 AM »
The problem is very few people really enjoy the first few levels, but love the mid levels. The result of it becoming more tedious and therefor a grind is that people have less interest in playing their low level chars. And stick to their high levels so long that the character becomes a stale copy of itself

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #87 on: November 05, 2015, 09:04:12 AM »
I don't find them tedious at all, I find them the most rewarding. The early levels of a new char are when i find you make the best ties to other characters. Because everyone's looking for people to help  adventure with. Once you start getting up there in level people tend to solo the usual hot spots and become rather reclusive to their own cliques.

DM Cataclysm

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #88 on: November 05, 2015, 09:10:20 AM »
Yeah, I would agree with Bud and Panda on this. I hit a cap on my first NCE character just as I reached level 4. The cap was taking a while to go away and I didn't want to give him a mega cap with continued play, so I created a second character. He hit a cap now as well :/

I seem to recall from previous NCE's, not hitting a cap until the 5/6 range, which was nice because you have a few more options at that point.

HellsPanda

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #89 on: November 05, 2015, 09:44:12 AM »
Exactly

booksarefun666

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #90 on: November 05, 2015, 10:26:50 AM »
The cap is pretty annoying but I can understand why it's there. I admit, I'd probably grind levels a lot more instead of RP if it wasn't there to hold my hand.

Merry Munchkin

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #91 on: November 05, 2015, 11:13:33 AM »
I think it is important to keep in mind that the XP throttle does not prevent players from PLAYING the game as often as they like.  A player can dungeon all they want, grind all they want, RP all they want, and craft all they want.  When people complain about the throttle, what they are SOLELY complaining about is not getting a big enough reward for such activities.

The throttle does not prevent or inhibit a fully interactive and rich play experience.  Play all you want, as often as you want, and enjoy the time spent playing.


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peps

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #92 on: November 05, 2015, 11:38:36 AM »
I don't find them tedious at all, I find them the most rewarding. The early levels of a new char are when i find you make the best ties to other characters. Because everyone's looking for people to help  adventure with. Once you start getting up there in level people tend to solo the usual hot spots and become rather reclusive to their own cliques.

When it comes to times when NCE isn't active, I struggle to find anyone to actually roleplay with. Everyone is very reclusive, or is playing a character in another domain.

booksarefun666

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #93 on: November 05, 2015, 11:50:06 AM »
I don't find them tedious at all, I find them the most rewarding. The early levels of a new char are when i find you make the best ties to other characters. Because everyone's looking for people to help  adventure with. Once you start getting up there in level people tend to solo the usual hot spots and become rather reclusive to their own cliques.

When it comes to times when NCE isn't active, I struggle to find anyone to actually roleplay with. Everyone is very reclusive, or is playing a character in another domain.
'
While this may veer off topic a bit I usually find you won't get a whole lot  of RP unless you initiate it somehow.

If you see a schmuck just say hi to him because it's like dating where you just keep polling until someone responds.

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #94 on: November 05, 2015, 11:57:42 AM »

The cap and progression at low levels is certainly different than in some previous new character events. I don't have any strong feelings either way regarding the changes, but I do notice some benefits to the slower level progression at the lower levels.  

I recall characters being able to level quickly enough before the nce ended in the past, to where you had a much wider level range present during the event, which I don't think is a positive. I'd rather see less of a gap between our higher level nce characters and the lower level ones, as I think we're achieving that at the moment.

I might not be remembering it correctly, but I think I recall a mage levelling up to get the "flesh to stone" spell to use during a former nce.  I think my first nce was with Leander Hoppy, and I pretty much achieved mid level status by the end of the event, which was pretty fast.

I love the low levels, especially when you don't have higher level characters around to sell or toss off gear that makes the game easier. I also prefer the slower progression to the faster progression I experienced with Leander.

I hit a hard cap with my current character at 4, as well.  I'm not a fan of having multiple characters though, especially during an nce when I'm making an effort to build not only a character, but also trying to build some story momentum and narrative cohesion with others, and so I just keep playing through the xp caps regardless of the what the xp messages tell me.




Merry Munchkin

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #95 on: November 05, 2015, 12:01:11 PM »
I don't find them tedious at all, I find them the most rewarding. The early levels of a new char are when i find you make the best ties to other characters. Because everyone's looking for people to help  adventure with. Once you start getting up there in level people tend to solo the usual hot spots and become rather reclusive to their own cliques.

When it comes to times when NCE isn't active, I struggle to find anyone to actually roleplay with. Everyone is very reclusive, or is playing a character in another domain.
'
While this may veer off topic a bit I usually find you won't get a whole lot  of RP unless you initiate it somehow.

If you see a schmuck just say hi to him because it's like dating where you just keep polling until someone responds.

By me dinner and drinks, and I'll be happy to talk to you.  :)


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booksarefun666

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #96 on: November 05, 2015, 12:02:16 PM »
I don't find them tedious at all, I find them the most rewarding. The early levels of a new char are when i find you make the best ties to other characters. Because everyone's looking for people to help  adventure with. Once you start getting up there in level people tend to solo the usual hot spots and become rather reclusive to their own cliques.

When it comes to times when NCE isn't active, I struggle to find anyone to actually roleplay with. Everyone is very reclusive, or is playing a character in another domain.
'
While this may veer off topic a bit I usually find you won't get a whole lot  of RP unless you initiate it somehow.

If you see a schmuck just say hi to him because it's like dating where you just keep polling until someone responds.

By me dinner and drinks, and I'll be happy to talk to you.  :)

Why do I feel like you're using me for my money?  :cry:

HellsPanda

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #97 on: November 05, 2015, 12:08:43 PM »
We achieved level 6-7 with Hoppy and Taka. But that was with some very good DM events involving ogres. and a very interesting team doing it that was a 7 day event.

On low levels, a feeling of progression is very important.

And the leveling rate was perfect before, so I fail to understand the change. But yes the ones who want to will always level faster.

Iconoclast

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #98 on: November 05, 2015, 12:16:29 PM »


I thought we achieved a higher level than 6-7 back then, but I could be wrong.  I hit level six just last night, and this isn't by playing all day every day, either. 

Sheltatha

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #99 on: November 05, 2015, 12:28:29 PM »
I noticed that the cap became a lot harsher at lower levels soon after this topic. I think a lot of people are just starting to notice it due to NCE.

I've noticed a lot of people already going back to playing older characters, and I could be wrong but I think it might be due to being permanently capped from level 3. It makes dungeoning feel pretty worthless and there's only so long you can do tavern RP before you want to do something more interesting. That could just be me though.

I'm not presuming to speak for everyone but I think the cap was fine before it was changed and now it's just tedious. The votes were 62% in favour of not changing it when this topic was made.