Author Topic: Level progression  (Read 34968 times)

Syl

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #200 on: November 11, 2015, 12:23:28 PM »
Does not mean it will happen lol unless you got like 3 dark powers and were on a one life rule.. as well as wanted by everything under the sun and moon because your soul or blood is now fabled and a key component to curing cancer.

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Niffie

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #201 on: November 12, 2015, 03:49:51 PM »
How long does the "blind drive" usually stay? As in, for how long would one have to stay inactive in adventuring approximately? Anyone know? ^^
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 05:48:19 PM by Niffie »

FinalHeaven

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #202 on: November 12, 2015, 04:01:56 PM »
How long does the "blind drive" usually stay? As in, for long would one have to stay inactive in adventuring approximately? Anyone know? ^^

Two weeks if I remember right.

Iluvatar

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #203 on: November 12, 2015, 04:31:25 PM »
How long does the "blind drive" usually stay? As in, for long would one have to stay inactive in adventuring approximately? Anyone know? ^^

Two weeks if I remember right.

Two weeks... I think that's a bit long, each time I have hit blind drive it took only like 4 - 5 of being inactive to get of blind drive if it's not less.

Two weeks is far from being the real number.

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Niffie

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #204 on: November 12, 2015, 05:47:29 PM »
Two weeks... I think that's a bit long, each time I have hit blind drive it took only like 4 - 5 of being inactive to get of blind drive if it's not less.

Two weeks is far from being the real number.

4-5 days? That's a bit long too o.O

Iluvatar

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #205 on: November 12, 2015, 06:36:59 PM »
Two weeks... I think that's a bit long, each time I have hit blind drive it took only like 4 - 5 of being inactive to get of blind drive if it's not less.

Two weeks is far from being the real number.

4-5 days? That's a bit long too o.O

Yeah I think it's long as well... but I've been blind drive so rarely that it's hard to say how long it really takes to get out of it, but yeah... 4-5 day might be a bit long as well lol

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FlyingLotus

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #206 on: November 12, 2015, 08:18:00 PM »
I've noticed blind drive taking longer to go away the longer I do things to gain xp (besides rp) while I'm already on it. If I stop as soon as I hit it, a few days tops. If I just ignore it for a long time, it can take about 2 weeks just to get off it-and if you start right back up again as soon as it's gone you'll hit it again sooner. Just from my experience
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julienchab

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #207 on: November 16, 2015, 04:41:51 PM »
Just an idea that crossed my mind earlier when I was doing the Terg ruins at lvl 7 and getting almost no xp for it. I was told some dungeons around vallaki had their XP given tuned down. Dunno if a developper could confirm. If lower levels dungeons are giving less xp, it could be a reason why players are feeling they are leveling less faster then before.

Syl

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #208 on: November 17, 2015, 08:24:28 AM »
Just an idea that crossed my mind earlier when I was doing the Terg ruins at lvl 7 and getting almost no xp for it. I was told some dungeons around vallaki had their XP given tuned down. Dunno if a developper could confirm. If lower levels dungeons are giving less xp, it could be a reason why players are feeling they are leveling less faster then before.

My only questons for this are... A: what was the spawn looking like.

And B: how many were there.

Because at a very minimum spawn like lowest of low, you are hardly going to get any exp if any at all.

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julienchab

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #209 on: November 17, 2015, 08:30:04 AM »
Just an idea that crossed my mind earlier when I was doing the Terg ruins at lvl 7 and getting almost no xp for it. I was told some dungeons around vallaki had their XP given tuned down. Dunno if a developper could confirm. If lower levels dungeons are giving less xp, it could be a reason why players are feeling they are leveling less faster then before.

My only questons for this are... A: what was the spawn looking like.

And B: how many were there.

Because at a very minimum spawn like lowest of low, you are hardly going to get any exp if any at all.

It was almost max spawn and I was level 7. We were a group of 6

Syl

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #210 on: November 17, 2015, 09:10:34 AM »
Just an idea that crossed my mind earlier when I was doing the Terg ruins at lvl 7 and getting almost no xp for it. I was told some dungeons around vallaki had their XP given tuned down. Dunno if a developper could confirm. If lower levels dungeons are giving less xp, it could be a reason why players are feeling they are leveling less faster then before.

My only questons for this are... A: what was the spawn looking like.

And B: how many were there.

Because at a very minimum spawn like lowest of low, you are hardly going to get any exp if any at all.

It was almost max spawn and I was level 7. We were a group of 6

then either someone was to high level.. Or the things you were near were not high enough to give exp to a lvl 7 [shrugs]

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Niffie

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #211 on: November 17, 2015, 12:19:50 PM »
Just an idea that crossed my mind earlier when I was doing the Terg ruins at lvl 7 and getting almost no xp for it. I was told some dungeons around vallaki had their XP given tuned down. Dunno if a developper could confirm. If lower levels dungeons are giving less xp, it could be a reason why players are feeling they are leveling less faster then before.

My only questons for this are... A: what was the spawn looking like.

And B: how many were there.

Because at a very minimum spawn like lowest of low, you are hardly going to get any exp if any at all.

It was almost max spawn and I was level 7. We were a group of 6

then either someone was to high level.. Or the things you were near were not high enough to give exp to a lvl 7 [shrugs]

Actually we had a level 10 cleric in the group. That might have been why.

Syl

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #212 on: November 17, 2015, 12:36:02 PM »
No... that shouldn't be the reason..[shrugs] Not sure then.

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LivingWasteland

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #213 on: November 20, 2015, 04:33:22 AM »
Just adding my two cents on xp gain this NCW.


The last two NCW's I partook in, Luminita ended the week at level 8. I played a higher than average amount.

My PC the NCW before this one ended almost to 7 playing an average amount of time.

My PC this NCW is still 4, possibly close to 5, also playing an average amount of time.

There definitely seemed to be something up with the cap. I just rolled with it. I didn't see this topic until now.

Onto other things debated, I now work a job that takes roughly 150+ hours of my time a week. I don't have the time to play that I used to. That makes being involved in any plots difficult. It makes aiming for the PrC I'd like near impossible. It also makes progression extremely difficult. While I know it isn't the intent, and I do appreciate the XP system making things go slower, I feel that perhaps it's a little too slow. It makes keeping up with your IC friends extremely difficult.

Yes, it's been said 'make some new IC friends'. But, as it was already pointed out, there is a limited number of people on at any given time, of varying levels from extremely low, to extremely high. This isn't World of Warcraft. You can't just jump into a group of same-level people and go from there. With there only being 10-60 people on at any given time, the server being as large as it is, it's illogical to expect there to always be people of similar level to do anything with, doubly so given that people are spread out so widely given the aforementioned size. And with the difficulty curve of the server -requiring- a varied party (At the very least, a meatshield, a buffbot, and a lockpick) for mid-level and up dungeons to be successful, that's stretching things even tighter, making it even more difficult to get anything done.

I find myself standing around the outskirts RPing most of the time. I enjoy the RP. I enjoy the people I RP with. I love you guys, and you're great. But this is Dungeons and Dragons. I want RP and adventure in equal measure. And I feel some things in place make having an equal measure more than a little difficult. I feel though, that when you get to level 10-12, you're a well balanced character and more capable of surviving harder things with the higher levels, while still being able to enjoy time with the lower levels.

I understand some people think the lower levels provide the most. Others dislike the lower levels because they hate feeling absolutely useless and that they'll die if they sneeze too hard.

My suggestion, as I feel it's silly to have a complaint without a solution, is as follows:

Add an XP adjustment tool, effective to a certain level. That way people can get to the level range as fast or as slow as they prefer, and even stay there, without giving everone a level 16-20 destroyer of worlds. Example:

Levels 1-5:
+75%
+50%
+25%
-25%
-50%
-75%
OFF

With that as a base, you remove the higher value. At level 6, you can only gain 50% more. At 7, 25%. At 8, no more increased gain. You can still choose to gain it slower, or turn it off however. 8 seems to be a good, fair level where you aren't dying to mink bites and you have access to some neat features of your class, and you're not cut off from as many people level-wise. Every PC I've had, around level 8 is when I've started feeling like I wasn't a liability and had just enough going for me to hold my own in parties of varying levels. This feeling is the same for every class I've played except maybe monk, but that's a discussion for another day and another thread. With an option like this, it lets people advance at a pace that they, as a player, are more happy with. This feels like a good compromise in the middle since there seems to be a wide division of people saying 'We like low levels, slow is good!' and 'We hate feeling useless, faster is better'.


TL:DR

XP gain seems reduced.
Limited players.
Finding new friends is not always possible for above reason.
Dungeoning gets progressively harder, requiring more diverse parties. Increases difficulty more fore above reasons.
Mid-level seems to be the 'best' all-around levels for spending time with more people, and actually being useful.
Give XP adjustment up to a certain level based on a player's personal preference.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 04:37:29 AM by LivingWasteland »


Merry Munchkin

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #214 on: November 20, 2015, 06:45:56 PM »
The last NCW from the previous year, my character ended up at level 7.  This NCE, my character ended up at level 6, almost to level 7 (he is at the "trivial" message).  I probably played about the same amount of time for both.  As a consequence, I am not sure if there really is a nerf to the xp gain or not.


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FlyingLotus

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #215 on: November 20, 2015, 06:56:59 PM »
Hard to say I guess. My first NCE I got quite a ways through lvl 8, but I had all the time in the world, was involved in lots of DM events and rp'd/dungeoned a lot.

Second one I nearly hit 8, with the same things applying.

This one I nearly hit 7 but with significantly less play time, though I think I might have gained more rp and dm xp than either of the other two
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DrXavierTColtrane

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #216 on: November 20, 2015, 07:14:41 PM »
Why is XP gain so opaque anyway?

I think there would be far fewer questions (and perhaps complaints) if we could actually see it happening. Likewise, the recent bug when re-levelling would have been detected immediately instead of having a chance to affect more characters.

Frequently on the forums I see the adage "trust the player base," but the often-cited-as-contradictory rest messages rather than straightforward numbers evidence that ultimately the admins do *not* trust the player base. Or why is this so obscure?

Personally, I don't much care because that's the way it was when I got here, and it's been that way for years, and if everyone else is happy with it, I'm not trying to start a quixotic crusade. I simply don't see the purpose other than creating doubt in players' minds.

By the way, crafting gives out erroneous messages, which I can verify. So that makes me doubtful that all the regular XP gain messages are on the up and up.

For example, if you craft a potion with a DC below your current level, you don't get any XP--which is how I think it's supposed to work. But you will still get the message that you have gained XP in your craft. If, however, you compare the actual number before and after, you can verify that you did not get XP.
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MJ_Johansson

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #217 on: November 20, 2015, 09:45:47 PM »
While I dont know the scripting behind the XP system, it seems to work fine as it is. The rest message pretty accurately follows what I've been up to, so I dont think there's any lost XP that way.

I kind of like the mystery of not knowing exactly when I'll get the level, it makes it sweeter when I do get those blue sparkles in the corner this way, and being unable to plan exactly how many warewolves you have to bonk before you level means you just have to play and it'll happen when it happens.
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FlyingLotus

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #218 on: November 20, 2015, 09:55:03 PM »
Yeah, honestly not having your exact xp gain tracked at all times is sort of liberating, for me anyway xD

I'm sure there's people that can have it tracked and not ever pay attention to it, but when I have the numbers right there in front of me it's hard for me not to pay attention and that just gets me working things out in my head and then I'm no longer focused on what's happening around me, the rp and all that, but planning what exactly I need to do for how long to get the xp I want. It's no fun.
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Ercvadasz

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #219 on: November 23, 2015, 04:12:22 PM »
Dunno, i would say level progression is allright, actually i think some folks should slow down a bit, since they rob themselves from the experience.:)
On my very first char i pushed a lot for xp, found and learned a lot of thinks, thereafter I started to play way slower and it is most of the time way more fun!:)
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DrXavierTColtrane

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #220 on: November 23, 2015, 04:59:06 PM »
Yeah, honestly not having your exact xp gain tracked at all times is sort of liberating, for me anyway xD

I'm sure there's people that can have it tracked and not ever pay attention to it, but when I have the numbers right there in front of me it's hard for me not to pay attention and that just gets me working things out in my head and then I'm no longer focused on what's happening around me, the rp and all that, but planning what exactly I need to do for how long to get the xp I want. It's no fun.


I often turn the current feedback messages off for the opposite reason. That is, their overt suggestion that I have been wasting my time ("you have done close to nothing" or whatever it is) when I've spent a day crafting, for example. This is especially true when I've recently levelled up and am not interested in being harangued about "how will you ever master your new powers if you don't put them to use?" and "if you want to move on, blah-blah-blah."

Numbers are numbers, and that you think you would obsess over them, well, that's your choice. The messages seem much more judgmental and an intentional goad, but at least they can be toggled off, I suppose.
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FlyingLotus

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #221 on: November 23, 2015, 05:10:24 PM »
I mean.. Yeah-it's just an individual preference man.

You can turn off messages that get under your skin, I can play without being tempted to crunch numbers. Yay for us
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Jeebs

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Re: Level progression
« Reply #222 on: November 23, 2015, 05:19:45 PM »
Yeah, honestly not having your exact xp gain tracked at all times is sort of liberating, for me anyway xD

I'm sure there's people that can have it tracked and not ever pay attention to it, but when I have the numbers right there in front of me it's hard for me not to pay attention and that just gets me working things out in my head and then I'm no longer focused on what's happening around me, the rp and all that, but planning what exactly I need to do for how long to get the xp I want. It's no fun.


I often turn the current feedback messages off for the opposite reason. That is, their overt suggestion that I have been wasting my time ("you have done close to nothing" or whatever it is) when I've spent a day crafting, for example. This is especially true when I've recently levelled up and am not interested in being harangued about "how will you ever master your new powers if you don't put them to use?" and "if you want to move on, blah-blah-blah."

Numbers are numbers, and that you think you would obsess over them, well, that's your choice. The messages seem much more judgmental and an intentional goad, but at least they can be toggled off, I suppose.

I agree with Dante here, though I have to say I've never thought of turning off the feedback messages. In my case, I'd be doing it for the opposite reason, mind you. When I'm playing on Kith, it seems like the server starts trolling me. I'll be getting "close to mastery" messages for months and months on end. In the end, I don't mind that it takes a while to level, though there's something about seeing that message that irks me and makes me want to say "b/s I'm close to mastery!" Does turning off the feedback messages remove everything else though? I kind of like seeing the weather conditions and the time pop up.