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Author Topic: Crafting experience  (Read 9607 times)

McNastea

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2014, 05:43:43 AM »

However, there is room for improvement. I do believe there should be NPCs available to buy whatever goods we produce that no one else want. Not to get rich, but at least to cover some of our production cost. Fictional exemple: If a copper armor costs in total 250 gp to produce, I should be able to sell it for 260 gp to an NPC. Heck, I'd be happy to get 200 gp for it. I would not get rich and would still lose money when I fail to produce anything. But that would be a huge improvement over what it is now. It would not have to be for everything either, we can all agree potions and varnishes are useful from the very beginning, but at least for items of lesser worth no one usually wants. I especially have in mind items like copper/bronze/iron weapons & armors, leather armors and wooden shields giving little or no bonus at all.


Definitely. There could be an npc set up in different places, maybe a government worker, buying what is produced to help arm the garda or gendarme or whatever at low prices. The looming war with Falkovnia could be a good reason for Dementlieu needing arms and certain armors-I imagine they, while not wearing armor, would still like some padded armor for battle? Plated boots, etc. Vallaki could be looking to be able to arm their garda for cheap. But, this is a bit off topic-sorry! >_<

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2014, 02:03:03 PM »
I do believe there should be NPCs available to buy whatever goods we produce that no one else want. Not to get rich, but at least to cover some of our production cost.

The Vallaki warehouse buys some stuff already.

As far as other types of goods, it might be nice to be able to have the ability to sell them, but I am not sure whether it is critical to do so.

One addition that might avoid some wastage, at least in regards to smithing, is to incorporate the ability to recycle crafted items back into ingots.  For example, you make a crafted dagger out of a copper ingot.  If you make three daggers, you could try to recycle those daggers back into 1 copper ingot.  You can change the ratio to suit whatever game balance you feel is appropriate, but it makes sense -- real smiths would be recycling valuable metals all the time.


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MAB77

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2014, 03:19:25 PM »

The Vallaki warehouse buys some stuff already.


Yes, but it is an ineffective and unused feature. It asks for specific items no one bothers to make and provide so little in terms of rewards that it is pointless.


One addition that might avoid some wastage, at least in regards to smithing, is to incorporate the ability to recycle crafted items back into ingots.  For example, you make a crafted dagger out of a copper ingot.  If you make three daggers, you could try to recycle those daggers back into 1 copper ingot.  You can change the ratio to suit whatever game balance you feel is appropriate, but it makes sense -- real smiths would be recycling valuable metals all the time.

Absolutely! Being able to recycle metal would be an excellent alternative. I'm sure this is not a new request either.
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Bad_Bud

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2014, 03:32:51 PM »
If you think crafting templates are too expensive, you'd be better off suggesting new prices. Having an NPC do buy-backs to pseudo-reduce-cost is an unnecessary step.

ILLY6666

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2014, 03:51:30 PM »
If you think crafting templates are too expensive, you'd be better off suggesting new prices. Having an NPC do buy-backs to pseudo-reduce-cost is an unnecessary step.

That's a good idea.
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Ercvadasz

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2014, 09:17:26 PM »
You can get plenty of regular XP from gathering resources, that's why they're in dungeons/wilderness or on monsters.

Which is how I made it to 15th level with my master crafter after 6 years to begin with. But you also aren't going to level a craft in one, or two, (or three, or four, or whatever) trips. It takes (real) time to mine ore in a place where you gain little to no exp and walk at a snails pace to a smelting station two maps away to then spend another hour doing literally nothing but smelting and smithing. In the mean time a dedicated exp farming party that is bored to tears with your crafting antics after the first trip can reap more exp in a single dungeon trip than you will in a month of incidental conflicts while gathering materials. When you get into things like leather working it gets even worse. What you need alot of are things like gargoyle pelts. (sturdy boiled leather) Please show me anyone beyond level 5 interested in going to get them for the exp benefit.

A thing you left out, is that while you are crafting, basicly it is near impossible to RP, and for others whom may accindetally bump into the same area. (Like in Dvergenheim it happened to me.)
Simply because if you are crafting to get CP and to produce stuff, you will be basicly FLOODING the chat area, with what you placed inside the creator container and what you removed out from it, making all RP basicly impossible.
(Try to find the line when someone said you something, while you were placing 324 flowers in a cauldron:))
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respawnaholic

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2014, 12:52:06 AM »
I didn't forget it. I was sort of hoping it was self evident to anyone who has actually spent any time crafting and thus not worth pointing out in addition to all the other hurdles they labor under. It probably is a good idea to mention it though.

McNastea

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2014, 01:04:04 AM »
I didn't forget it. I was sort of hoping it was self evident to anyone who has actually spent any time crafting and thus not worth pointing out in addition to all the other hurdles they labor under. It probably is a good idea to mention it though.

Anything you find relevant is good to mention. A mod claiming to be perpetually in beta thrives on all input, even if you feel it's self evident that doesn't mean it is. There's been more than one change made due to something that I thought was self evident that apparently wasn't. Dev's need moar feedback!
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respawnaholic

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2014, 01:23:50 AM »
I didn't forget it. I was sort of hoping it was self evident to anyone who has actually spent any time crafting and thus not worth pointing out in addition to all the other hurdles they labor under. It probably is a good idea to mention it though.

Anything you find relevant is good to mention. A mod claiming to be perpetually in beta thrives on all input, even if you feel it's self evident that doesn't mean it is. There's been more than one change made due to something that I thought was self evident that apparently wasn't. Dev's need moar feedback!

Yeah Ercvadasz is one of those players who invested allot of time in crafting. Most of his characters ended up dead and stripped of gear because he was off soloing someplace for materials while everyone else was out leveling their characters so he actually knows what hes talking about.

McNastea

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2014, 02:54:45 AM »
I could point out how easy it is for someone to craft who lvls first and learns crafts later. I know that's not for everyone because not everyone wants to lvl, they wanna craft. but if crafting is your thing, then craft. If lvling up is your thing and you happen to wanna craft a bit, it'll be easier to lvl first and craft later-but nothing is stopping you from doing crafting first, or even during! Hell I figure the crafting is set up to scale along with your lvl ability so that if you don't try to sit down and grind out either to max asap you can slowly work both up together fairly easily. The gold you have available to fund your craft will generally rise with your level-at least your ability to accumulate it will whether you take advantage of it or not. Also, your ability to get the ingredients for harder things will as well.

Example: I started herbalism at lvl 7. I worked on it some throughout each season, never sitting down and only doing that for long periods, just gathering what I could here and there and working at it. At lvl.. oh 15-16 I could make elixirs of life and only needed a three or higher to make it. By lvl 20 I could do it without fail. This is with me focusing lvling on said character over crafting or any sort of balance between the two. I know that some crafts are more difficult to get through, but I've also helped other players get through smithing, leather working, herbalism, alchemy and woodworking. This isn't something that was done before lvling or instead of, it was something that was done while lvling over time, and both increased together as neither was focused over the other.

Example for lvling first-same character who took 10 lvls to almost max herbalism is able to in a few weeks after starting alchemy at lvl 19 to get the craft up to where he can fairly reliably make the hardest things, and that's without grinding it out to try and max asap.

I know that people don't get as much if any rp xp from crafting. It can be difficult to get people to help, but speaking from experience with multiple players and player groups both helping and being helped I can fairly confidently say that it's possible given the right determination. It's also a lot easier if you aren't a low to mid lvl trying to craft stuff that's made from things you just can't get yourself. Like I said, crafting scales with your lvl. That's why the easiest things are made with the materials -anybody- can get and the hardest things are made with materials only the toughest people can get. Other than using the economy to make it happen, which includes the opportunity to create rp around your obtainting these resources.
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Ercvadasz

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2014, 04:49:35 AM »
I could point out how easy it is for someone to craft who lvls first and learns crafts later. I know that's not for everyone because not everyone wants to lvl, they wanna craft. but if crafting is your thing, then craft. If lvling up is your thing and you happen to wanna craft a bit, it'll be easier to lvl first and craft later-but nothing is stopping you from doing crafting first, or even during! Hell I figure the crafting is set up to scale along with your lvl ability so that if you don't try to sit down and grind out either to max asap you can slowly work both up together fairly easily. The gold you have available to fund your craft will generally rise with your level-at least your ability to accumulate it will whether you take advantage of it or not. Also, your ability to get the ingredients for harder things will as well.

Example: I started herbalism at lvl 7. I worked on it some throughout each season, never sitting down and only doing that for long periods, just gathering what I could here and there and working at it. At lvl.. oh 15-16 I could make elixirs of life and only needed a three or higher to make it. By lvl 20 I could do it without fail. This is with me focusing lvling on said character over crafting or any sort of balance between the two. I know that some crafts are more difficult to get through, but I've also helped other players get through smithing, leather working, herbalism, alchemy and woodworking. This isn't something that was done before lvling or instead of, it was something that was done while lvling over time, and both increased together as neither was focused over the other.

Example for lvling first-same character who took 10 lvls to almost max herbalism is able to in a few weeks after starting alchemy at lvl 19 to get the craft up to where he can fairly reliably make the hardest things, and that's without grinding it out to try and max asap.

I know that people don't get as much if any rp xp from crafting. It can be difficult to get people to help, but speaking from experience with multiple players and player groups both helping and being helped I can fairly confidently say that it's possible given the right determination. It's also a lot easier if you aren't a low to mid lvl trying to craft stuff that's made from things you just can't get yourself. Like I said, crafting scales with your lvl. That's why the easiest things are made with the materials -anybody- can get and the hardest things are made with materials only the toughest people can get. Other than using the economy to make it happen, which includes the opportunity to create rp around your obtainting these resources.

Actually the thing you mention is not necessarily allways true.
A number of times In game events, information, happenings can prohibit someone from actually being able to level, or make it very hard for him or her.
Like getting RP bans to visit certain places. (eg. : you die if you come here again, from DM posessed monsters. I have been literally RP banned on 3 different characters from the vampire crypts:P)
Like learning things that make your character seriously distrustfull of certain other characters, factions, elements whatever.
In these cases depending on your class, it may quite easily be literally impossible to level, or very hard. You may actually invest in crafting this heavily to have a slight chance of getting xp, or to be able to do something once in every month or half a year.

<off-topic>
Also, basicly what you are just describing to level first, or to level while doing crafting, is basicly couraging you to grind for xp. This in my humble oppinion is a bit...meh. This should be first an RP server, and not a grindfesting MMORPG.
Also, sad to say this, but your reasoning basicly just brings up some things i allready encountered in game. "The first level, than you can back it up with rp" mentality.(=Or i first get some levels, I can thereafter start RP ing.)
Which is basicly makeing the game less RP-ish, and more powerfest style. Anyone can roll dices, and say one worded stuff. Or just plainly do a no-brainer assasination. -> I wonder how many folks actually know that with such methods, they usually limit their own RP, instead of enhancing it.
(E.g. I had a character who had in game information about how to destroy a Darklord. But he never got the chance to tell anyone, simply because he was murdered in such a lame way, I just felt disgusted. I also lost all my dedication to play him, simply because I was not able to trust the majority of the playerbase to interact with him normally ever again.)
If you try to reason with you can do it if you gain xp, level, items etc., then the problem may be that your focus is shifting more towards the "my character is this and that badass" than RP. There are other matters to obtain items, of course they may take a while, may cost gold, interaction, time whatever. However set in a wider perspective they may be quite more fitting RP-like. (I've seen hostile factions go into raids with each other simply because of the sheer xp value, or the rare item to be found there, which RP wise is hardly justifiable, however sometimes at least they do try to do so.)
</off-toppic>

And about the stuff of obvious things. You are right in that term. I know that respawnaholic knows what i told, and that it is obvious for him, but perhaps for the developers, for DMs, or for Blue it may not be so. That is why i felt that i should add that extra bit tile of information, to give a more better understanding of the problem and situation.

About the items you make and sell to NPC-s. Currently you can do that, however sadly most of these items are bought at such prices, that it can make you come out with quite a huge negative sum in the long run.
I remember that i used to do the math, counting out all items what it would cost me to make, at which different settlement. And it has occured that I bought the templates at one town, and had to venture to another to obtain the resources, simply because the templates may have cost me less, or because the resources were found more easily at the other. Allthough sadly buying items applies only to a limited number of items.
Perhaps a good or better solution would be if it would be spreaded out a bit. Giving for instance certain other residents, for whom it is more RP like fit, to buy those items. I am fairly sure that basicly in Barovia there are about three places where you could be able to sell your alchemical stuff to "locals". These also would make certain places perhaps more visited. (For instance the mage tower residents may buy from you the varnishes, allthough it is a rarity that varnishes are not sold, however perhaps the lower level ones some folks may find to have a large EXTRA number of.) The elves and Nadezdha special bows. (To support special hunts, elves/ranger.) Cure disease potions/poison/remove fear etc. or simple herbalist ingreds by certain priestly factions. (allthough to not find herbalist ingredient buyer is quite rare, however it still happens sometimes.) So forth.

And what respawnaholic said, that quite often my guys died because i was out to set out for ingreds, it is sad but true. Quite often I was not able to overcome things even if i had a decent gear for my level, simply because the dices felt it was the time for me to fail. Like getting killed basicly 4 times in a row, while trying to reach a certain coal source.(not the one under dvergenheim.) Where a craig cat jumped me and each time managed to crit me 4 times in a row for over 30-40 hp. Even being level 10 did not help. (And animal empathy rolls failed, drinking potions got me AOO and again critted, wasting that CCW potion and so forth.) I basicly wasted more invisibility potions against craig cats than anything else! (And that with a char who had animal empathy, quite a good AB, and AC but the dice factor rolled in. Heh my animal companion died so many times along with me i did not even bother to raise him after a while, simply because i was not able to make that much money with trying to advance in smithing.)
 
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 04:56:52 AM by Ercvadasz »
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respawnaholic

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2014, 10:10:28 AM »
I could point out how easy it is for someone to craft who lvls first and learns crafts later. I know that's not for everyone because not everyone wants to lvl, they wanna craft. but if crafting is your thing, then craft. If lvling up is your thing and you happen to wanna craft a bit, it'll be easier to lvl first and craft later-but nothing is stopping you from doing crafting first, or even during! Hell I figure the crafting is set up to scale along with your lvl ability so that if you don't try to sit down and grind out either to max asap you can slowly work both up together fairly easily. The gold you have available to fund your craft will generally rise with your level-at least your ability to accumulate it will whether you take advantage of it or not. Also, your ability to get the ingredients for harder things will as well.

Example: I started herbalism at lvl 7. I worked on it some throughout each season, never sitting down and only doing that for long periods, just gathering what I could here and there and working at it. At lvl.. oh 15-16 I could make elixirs of life and only needed a three or higher to make it. By lvl 20 I could do it without fail. This is with me focusing lvling on said character over crafting or any sort of balance between the two. I know that some crafts are more difficult to get through, but I've also helped other players get through smithing, leather working, herbalism, alchemy and woodworking. This isn't something that was done before lvling or instead of, it was something that was done while lvling over time, and both increased together as neither was focused over the other.

Example for lvling first-same character who took 10 lvls to almost max herbalism is able to in a few weeks after starting alchemy at lvl 19 to get the craft up to where he can fairly reliably make the hardest things, and that's without grinding it out to try and max asap.

I know that people don't get as much if any rp xp from crafting. It can be difficult to get people to help, but speaking from experience with multiple players and player groups both helping and being helped I can fairly confidently say that it's possible given the right determination. It's also a lot easier if you aren't a low to mid lvl trying to craft stuff that's made from things you just can't get yourself. Like I said, crafting scales with your lvl. That's why the easiest things are made with the materials -anybody- can get and the hardest things are made with materials only the toughest people can get. Other than using the economy to make it happen, which includes the opportunity to create rp around your obtainting these resources.

True.  I could point out in Dukes current case hes crafting because he hit the EXP wall days ago and still has yet to receive anything other than "mentally exhausted" messages. Apparently the exp checker doesnt factor lower levels into gain rate for respawning several times. Ive done nothing but churn out copper and iron crap for three days now and my rest messages are still "dont bother".

I also dont consider herbalism crafting in the pure sense. You can max herbalism in two springs basically. Duke is already a 6th level herbalist. This is despite still being a first level leather worker which he has spent far more time actively pursuing. While alchemy is indeed harder it also levels relatively fast once you gain a level or two in it.

To an extent i think the developers are aware there is a problem with crafting since as mind numbingly tedius and boring as it is (and this statement coming from someone who actually kind of likes it) they've actually dropped the DC of most goods from when I first arrived. Even still on a server where several hundred characters are active during an average week if you can count the number of master level craftsman on one hand with a finger or two left over maybe there's a reason for it.

Syl

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2014, 11:04:11 AM »
There are many Master crafters walking around Most just keep it to themselves of such knowledge because onces its well known it gets annoying doing all the orders. I've seen many people getting tired of making weapons and making arrows backed up with orders upon orders for more. Let alone to make any of the good things takes a lot of time. I personally have one master smith and one master herbalist. And you could ask any other normal crafter thats good at their craft. It gets Booooring taking orders and filling them out to a point where they just stop because its becoming redicules " Oh i want twenty orders of strong alchemical steel arrows. and then when your done with that I have a friend that wants to place a order of a rediculos amount" ...for me it got stupid to see one person wish to buy all my healing potions. WHile i didn't mind the gold it just became tiering.. let alone i had to draw the line to so many healing potions to one person, so other people can buy them. ( sorry got off topic with that last part)

The crafting exp is fine in my opinion. its based off the cost of the materials, which explains why curing hides and leather working takes the longest to build since most the hide you will work with will only be worth 1fang. where as the higher hides might be worth 4-10 fang. I will say Smithing feels like it takes forever in the begining. But once you know what costs what to buy and how many ingits your working with. add in your level and moddifiers and you can maybe start with copper helmets but then four or five levels later you can start making iron helmets whith a bit of a challenge. Helmets giving you more Crafting exp because they cost more fang to buy and only take two ingits to make. and on fails no matter the price of the item you will always gain 3 CXP. How ever once you get like 10 or 20 crafting levels of smithing under your belt ( Which does take time) you can start making the armor which is where you will get your levels faster. prices on the heavy armor ranging from 200-1000 and I know for a fact at the starting levels of making armor Fullplate with just normal deer hide, ( Lowest DC for fullplate possible) WIll give you 1000 CXP per sucessful make which is 1 level in the craft.  I have told a few people how to remove the -5 from not knowing the recipe for fullplate but i'll leave that for others to find out.

As for why CXP doesn't add to normal EXP smithing and other crafts once you good at it. You could hit level 20 in days.

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respawnaholic

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2014, 01:33:30 PM »
As for why CXP doesn't add to normal EXP smithing and other crafts once you good at it. You could hit level 20 in days.

You wont hit level 20 in days since it will take about a year to get to a minimum skill level to actually make it successfully. Were not talking about awarding exp every time you make something. Were talking about an exp bump thats maybe the equivalent of a conversation exp bump every time you gain a crafting level. I don't really see how this can be abused since you would still be gaining exp faster by simply sitting by the fire and having a normal conversation. Something which Ercvadasz pointed out is often functionally impossible given all the container spam.

I might also be seeing your dilemma with endless tells somewhat differently than you. I don't pretend to know every master level crafter on the server, but if your a known master crafter one of the reasons your receiving endless tells asking you to endlessly make things for people is because there aren't that many sources to go to. Who is there? Constantine (which admittedly I DON'T advertise his skill for exactly the reasons you mention), Sedrik, Gretchen, Sudhri, Slyvana, Legos Sylvester, Eugene, Rali? Most of these players or characters are very irregular in appearance or frankly don't play at all any more. If I'm not mistaken Silvana was also one of those rare characters who managed to form successful crafting parties with Sudhri, and Xandarah. In other words master craftsman get spammed endlessly because there is a serious shortage of skilled craftsmen due to the time and effort required. If there were an adequate source you wouldn't have the very problem you describe.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 01:43:46 PM by respawnaholic »

Syl

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2014, 02:31:44 PM »
True i guess but on a personal level. it took me I don't know. 2 weeks i guess and I got my smelting high enough that I was smelting iron with little to no difficulty before i started smithing even copper. but then if someone REALLY wanted to go at it which I have because for RP reasons one of Sylvonas's weapons became curoded via rust monster.. and you need at least a level 10 smithing level to remove the curossion. and i think I sat there for.... about 3 or 4? days of acumulated hours minning out all three copper seams... Praying to GODS that no DM was watching me and the Ox carry about one ton worth of ore over that bridge smelting it down and then hammering away getting to level 10 smithing rather quick and then moved to Iron. and then steel. which then took me about 2 months of time added ( i got lazy and was not smithing as much.) and i became level 20 smithing. add in her stats which gave her a extra +5.. I moved onto armor. started with copper chain shirts learned that recipe and then jumped to fullplate. and started leveling smithing up fast and gained 30 levels in smithing or so in about 1 days worth of time added in. So unless that bump of exp given for getting a level in a craft is 50. It could be easily exploted in my eyes since there is no cap to the crafting level.

And even now When Syl is with her student training them in their weapon. she has them go and make their own. Will she make armor for those she knows and that ask. yes but she is dragging them with to get the recources.

// off topic warining ( It's not the lack of masters in my opinion, its the lack of others wanting to do the work. I have recived many tells from others that ask me about crafting which by all means i have no problem giving advice in it and saying what works and how. But they end up just stopping the craft after so long because its so hard to get past that first ten levels and make anything that gives a WoW factor. Like i think the last person I knew that drove themselves mad making armor was the "king in chains" or whatever his name was. his group had him minning and smithing and smelting or must have since Day 1 of NCE because like half way through it they were Selling Steel weapons and armor. So It doesn't take you a year to get that high if they did it in flipping 7ish days...

So as I said its not the lack of masters its the lack of drive.)

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respawnaholic

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2014, 03:24:39 PM »
True i guess but on a personal level. it took me I don't know. 2 weeks i guess and I got my smelting high enough that I was smelting iron with little to no difficulty before i started smithing even copper. but then if someone REALLY wanted to go at it which I have because for RP reasons one of Sylvonas's weapons became curoded via rust monster.. and you need at least a level 10 smithing level to remove the curossion. and i think I sat there for.... about 3 or 4? days of acumulated hours minning out all three copper seams... Praying to GODS that no DM was watching me and the Ox carry about one ton worth of ore over that bridge smelting it down and then hammering away getting to level 10 smithing rather quick and then moved to Iron. and then steel. which then took me about 2 months of time added ( i got lazy and was not smithing as much.) and i became level 20 smithing. add in her stats which gave her a extra +5.. I moved onto armor. started with copper chain shirts learned that recipe and then jumped to fullplate. and started leveling smithing up fast and gained 30 levels in smithing or so in about 1 days worth of time added in. So unless that bump of exp given for getting a level in a craft is 50. It could be easily exploted in my eyes since there is no cap to the crafting level.

And even now When Syl is with her student training them in their weapon. she has them go and make their own. Will she make armor for those she knows and that ask. yes but she is dragging them with to get the recources.

// off topic warining ( It's not the lack of masters in my opinion, its the lack of others wanting to do the work. I have recived many tells from others that ask me about crafting which by all means i have no problem giving advice in it and saying what works and how. But they end up just stopping the craft after so long because its so hard to get past that first ten levels and make anything that gives a WoW factor. Like i think the last person I knew that drove themselves mad making armor was the "king in chains" or whatever his name was. his group had him minning and smithing and smelting or must have since Day 1 of NCE because like half way through it they were Selling Steel weapons and armor. So It doesn't take you a year to get that high if they did it in flipping 7ish days...

So as I said its not the lack of masters its the lack of drive.)

Um...you don't need to be level 10 to remove corrosion. you can do it at level 1. Dukes new magic armor got badly corroded by a black pudding and he was 1 at the time. Maybe he just got insanely lucky on his smithing dice roll but i don't remember any DC even being rolled for. You also mention leveling iron relatively fast and before you were even doing copper. I would submit you were travelling with Sudhri and Xandaras quite a bit of the time so you were using the system as it was intended rather than how it is normally used in practice. More importantly It allowed you to reach deposits that would be off limits to a regular crafter until much higher level.

In retrospect one thing I have to admit is the Zeklos outpost crafting stations do make power leveling crafting allot easier. That and the inclusion of the charcoal. Also if I'm not mistaken there is less learning redundancy in certain crafts. I might be wrong about this or mis-remembering but now if you can make a copper battle axe you also remove the -5 penalty for trying it iron. I could swear it used to be you had to relearn it in iron at -5.

The NCW "King of Chains" character isn't exactly a good example to use because as his name entails someone made him for the express purpose of standing by a smelter and making shit non stop while other characters funneled supplies and gold into him. A normal beginning crafter wont have access to the gold or materials this character did. More importantly, and to go back a bit to the original posters position, I would be surprised if "Master of Chains" was anywhere near the same level of the characters made during the same NCW who were going out and gathering gold and supplies for him.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 03:40:09 PM by respawnaholic »

Syl

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2014, 04:15:06 PM »
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Um...you don't need to be level 10 to remove corrosion. you can do it at level 1. Dukes new magic armor got badly corroded by a black pudding and he was 1 at the time. Maybe he just got insanely lucky on his smithing dice roll but i don't remember any DC even being rolled for. You also mention leveling iron relatively fast and before you were even doing copper. I would submit you were travelling with Sudhri and Xandaras quite a bit of the time so you were using the system as it was intended rather than how it is normally used in practice. More importantly It allowed you to reach deposits that would be off limits to a regular crafter until much higher level.

I didn't know if there was a level requierment for removing currosion on items. Sudhri found out they could at 10 smithing. and so we just assumed you needed a 10 smithing to do so without fail. As for traveling with Sudhri and Xandrah. Yes i did but i did not really work smithing at that time i merely helped Sudhri smelt the iron so when i was smelting copper it was easy and by the time i got to iron I could only fail on a 1. and even still there is plenty iron to be had on the first floor of the dwarfs. and if your lucky you can find iron in the mine it self where it's safe. while yes after a certain level it became easier to get to the iron seams near alhoon and shadow cave. And okay we wont even go with Sylvonas. I will pull out Sokol a little Caliban runt who was working smelting and smithing as well. from start with no help. in two days time he was smelting iron and making iron helmets.


So yet again it is not impossible nor does it take long to become good at a craft once you know what your doing. its all about people willingly taking the time to do it themselves. If they can't find a master smith or fletcher then by all mean RP them getting frustrated and work on becoming one themselves. (and just so you know. No one was feeding Sokol gold or helping him with the recourses. it just took dedication and praying to the dice gods.)

Quote
In retrospect one thing I have to admit is the Zeklos outpost crafting stations do make power leveling crafting allot easier. That and the inclusion of the charcoal. Also if I'm not mistaken there is less learning redundancy in certain crafts. I might be wrong about this or mis-remembering but now if you can make a copper battle axe you also remove the -5 penalty for trying it iron. I could swear it used to be you had to relearn it in iron at -5.

I do recall seeing this a few times and I belive it is still a relearn the recipie for the armor. i know Sokol had to relearn iron helmets when he knew copper helmets. I'm not sure if its the same anymore been a hot moment for me to make such a thing.

Monica O'Sullivan: Master explorer
Tsubaki Yamamoto: Shadow Thief
Roesor Cryso: A slave for the Masters.
Sokol: An Unlikely Hero

respawnaholic

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2014, 09:10:04 PM »
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I do recall seeing this a few times and I belive it is still a relearn the recipie for the armor. i know Sokol had to relearn iron helmets when he knew copper helmets. I'm not sure if its the same anymore been a hot moment for me to make such a thing.

Thats just it. I did not have to relearn it, and I distinctly remember having to in the past. In addition to lowering the DC on all things crafting related they may have also changed that as well. Maybe  a developer could clarify.

Ercvadasz

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2014, 12:58:03 PM »
Well about smithing, and woodworking Zeklos Station is the way to go. The mine there that allows you to smelt bronze, or sometimes even iron, because it has all three deposits.(Or can have.)
Makes it quite easy to level up your smelting there. (Allthough smithing can be a bit messy, since the merchant tends to get buggy if someone sells him something crafted. Though not sure if this still is so. Havent played in a while.)
With having beech, oak you can basicly reach around level 14 or so relatively easy in woodworking. (Barrels FTW:D)
Also if you are getting spam tells in game about ordering this and that, you may tell them, that you prefer to be contacted In game. As I noticed it works wonders.
Not to mention asking such things to be crafted via tells is quite ...OOCish. Folks usually can wait to meet the crafter, and if they cannot and in dire need of mentioned items, well there is allways an RP solution to overcome situations and hindrances.

However, repairing corroded items is afaik not craft level affected.  I remember fixing something as a level 6 smith, a quite good magical item.
Also the penalty goes away like this if i know it well in smithing. If you make any type of weapon with one type of metal, your -5 will be removed on ALL weapons for that type of metal.
Same goes with armour and projectiles.(chain shirt anyone?:D)

And what Respawnaholic says, about folks being able to gather ingredients. It is true, not everyone has a fix crew to get all their items.
We have different style, different goals etc. Some prefer to form their own permanent band (char dies out, new char made gets into same band relatively fast, and on their level too etc.), some tend to start a new with all their new chars, some tend to think stuff as too OOCish while others dont. There are many who play differently here. But forceing folks on to play in one certain way, because all the others are just not worth, i think is the worst that can happen to this server. Because then it will only turn into one of those MMORPG-s, where beside the random DM encounters no difference is noticeable. Some folks are more RP hardcore while others are more Mechanics hardcore.
(I am not here to give a judgement, just trying to highlight some stuff.)
For a number of folks, especially the not so well established, some outcasts (be it as a char or a player), the ones with no high level powerfriends may find leveling in crafting (and normally even) quite hard.
Simply because they have very meager chance of obtaining required resources or ingredients. (Even if charcoal may have made it much easier, however for a level 10 non-caster, obtaining shadow wood for instance may still proove quite hard. Not to mention ash!)

« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 02:21:42 PM by Ercvadasz »
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respawnaholic

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2015, 12:23:02 AM »
Another change I have to fess up to noticing. The safe areas of the dwarven mines now have alot more iron veins than they used to. Back when I first started crafting they were mostly copper, but the past few times Ive paid attention they tend to be iron. Makes it a little easier to get a few more levels out of it.

Ercvadasz

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2015, 02:24:01 PM »
Another change I have to fess up to noticing. The safe areas of the dwarven mines now have alot more iron veins than they used to. Back when I first started crafting they were mostly copper, but the past few times Ive paid attention they tend to be iron. Makes it a little easier to get a few more levels out of it.

I am unsure but i think the ores, have a spawn rate/type too. Because if you leave it alone it tends to get more and better type of ore. Like in Zeklos keep, you leave it alone you may have 2-3 iron ore veins.
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respawnaholic

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2015, 04:18:10 PM »
Quite possibly, but I don't ever remember ever seeing iron deposits in the safe part of Dvergeheim- which isn't to say you aren't right. If it is in fact so it would lend more credence that there really aren't that many people crafting any more due to the time and headache involved. I run across people starting alot, but I almost never see them again after a week or so.

So far for NCW in a little under two weeks of pretty intensive crafting (for about 3 out of every 4 hours online and due to hitting the exp wall) Duke is now....

Smelting: 9th level
Smithing: 4th level
Carpentry: 5th level
Woodworking: 4th Level
Leather Curing: 3rd Level
Leather boiling: 1st level
Leather working: 2nd Level
Herbalism: 6th Level

So far he is burning thru several hundred gold per day just making low level junk. A trip to Krofburg and Back delivering supplies, cheese, and wool will pay for about a days worth of crafting operations with enough gold left over for respawning emergencies. In a week for actual adventures not related to crafting he has been to one cave in the south woods, two trips to the upper levels of the morninglord crypts, and one trip to the werewolf den. ( and collectively a couple hours of being dead :P) The rest of the time he has done nothing but craft. He has 1500 gold in the bank, and about 1100 in his pocket. In that time he has also met ONE person also crafting during peak hours. ( Admittedly Ive seen a few people also selling crafted goods so I know there have to be more, but still...) He has also offered or asked for help in clearing the Dvergeheim mines for ore and cave herbs three or four times to multiple groups who all found inventive ways of saying "Go F@@k yourself." or " Yeah thats a nice iron dagger you made. You want to buy this +1 long sword I found?"
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 04:32:03 PM by respawnaholic »

Ercvadasz

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2015, 11:15:57 PM »
The safe zone, where you deliver the mineing equipment used to have...at best spawn i think 4 iron nodes, perhaps five not sure. Allthough i have seen it empty as well. I think about 2 hours is needed for an instance change there, and it is possible that the ore nodes will not spawn on a new instance neither. I am unsure how it is measured but i think certain maps or instances change together, like the whole of the ghakis, dvergenheim, swamp etc. And ore nodes differ from plants greatly in this matter, which have their own scrip fireing them up.

Well about that, yes i can understand, i remember selling yew and beech bows, they were perhaps the most sought upon items i was able to make.

Also magical equipment was quite common, a lot of stuff can be achieved with certain classes, and items alone, thus is why there are certain solo builds, who can handle most of the stuff thrown at them. I do not know if Perfidus still is soloable, or if anyone was able to solo Sithicus yet.(Though i have not seen neither, simply lacking any kind of decent level char to reach there.)

But yes, crafting well usually is not worth it.
I think perhaps the most useless crafting skill though is still trapmaking, since laying down traps in its own is so restricted and requires you to master three crafts, and well quite frankly the needed varnish is much more usefull if applied onto armour or weapons.
Basicly you waste a lot of gold, a lot of time and xp you could achieve on it, whereas in the end you can find allmost everything now quite commonly as a drop item, or trade in. Not to mention in the end everyone will just go for the enchanted items, which can be aquire more easily with lotteries, auctions and what not.
Making varnishes, and making potions is basicly the two crafst you will really need, for the rest you can find better ones, and in the end most folks will just send a tell or post up a forum message seeking a certain crafter for their enchanted items.
(Which of course i deem quite OOCish, since literacy is not that widespread, nor are random papers placed out anywhere where folks tend to gather so accepted or well received.)
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Dhark

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2015, 11:55:59 PM »
" Yeah thats a nice iron dagger you made. You want to buy this +1 long sword I found?"

I think the drop rates for certain items were raised during NCW many players have masterwork weapons (+1 to hit) and master work armour from what I have seen.

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Re: Crafting experience
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2015, 12:44:38 AM »
Masterwork armor and weapons have been extremely easy to find since I started playing in July, from what I've seen.