Author Topic: Saves: Automatic failure on a 1  (Read 32287 times)

Merry Munchkin

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Re: Saves: Automatic failure on a 1
« Reply #175 on: December 23, 2014, 06:15:07 PM »
I am not disagreeing with you that there are potentially serious ramifications to the spammy nature of some monster spell effects, but I also want to point out that the "sky is falling" sentiment is a bit overblown.  As a practical matter, most of the PC's on the server are not guaranteed to make their saves anyway, so the autofail on a 1 will be a meaningless change for many players -- I have been in groups in a bunch of places where parties are taking on monsters with fear effects or paralysis and all the PCs have higher than a chance of 1 for a fail.  That doesn't stop them from adventuring in those places, they just modify their tactics accordingly.  The only people significantly affected by this proposed change are the higher level characters that have boosted their saves high enough so as to otherwise "guaranty" the saving throw roll against lower DCs.  If you were to make this change, the only thing that would really change is that these powerful characters would still have to take the same precautions they took when they were lower level -- clarity, freedom of movement, remove paralysis, remove fear, negative energy protection, death ward, etc. 

Again, whether to make this change is a matter of choice, there is no "right" or "wrong" way to play this game.  I think that the people advocating for the change need to temper their expectations of how much it will affect player-behavior in a positive way, and similarly those who are against the idea need to temper their forecasting-disaster fears.  This will impact how players play, but similarly players will adapt just like they adapt at lower-levels.


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Syl

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Re: Saves: Automatic failure on a 1
« Reply #176 on: December 23, 2014, 06:37:19 PM »
Strictly speaking "catastrophic failure" and "automatic failure" are not the same thing.  Your DM could have simply said that a 1 is just a misfire, instead of having something blow up.  Similarly, an autofail in NWN does not have to be catastrophic, especially if you are travelling in a group (as you should be).  Someone gets paralyzed, someone else hits them up with a remove paralysis.  Someone gets feared, someone else hits them up with a remove fear.  Someone gets injured, someone else heals them.  Etc, etc.

You're really downplaying the 'mob encounter' approach to things. You (and the rest of your party at the same time) might face five mummies with overlapping fear auras, you're all rolling 5x will saves a round. You might transition into an area and have four skeleton priests cast hold person all at once. Or the casts might be distributed. If it were a DM encounter in PnP I can see this working alright, but on this platform it's messy and not fun.

The whole party should not be getting hit by the fear aura... only those going melee, there are many ways to counter act it all. you can stock up on clarity potions... or... horde dragon eyes, have a cleric cast clarity. There are many ways... and if the fighter can't stand the fear aura because the cleric wont prepare a clarity spell... [shrugs] Find a paladin or someone who might stand a better chance.

Or do some people not understand there is more to a cleric other then bulls, owls, shield, prayer, and healing spells? When I went in there on my fighter I feared the hammer of the gods spells more then ANYTHING else.... give them Spell resistence and they have a much better fighting chance.

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