Incoming balance change: Parry AC bonus capping at +5

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

Having devised the system, it's of course hard to not be subjective about this, but I dare say that the parry system we implemented has been a great success and truly increased the diversity in the characters you see.

All in all, very are satisfied with how the system works now, but we've noticed that at very high levels and using certain combinations, it's possible to use the system to gain exceptionally high ACs to the point where we feel it's unbalanced. As such, by next update, we've tried with a cap of +5 on the maximum bonus the system gives.

I hope you'll help experiment with this change with an open mind, but please use this topic to share your experiences.

[Phantasia]

I would agree the AC that I could probably peak at, without the skills that give bonuses or equipment, was pretty ridiculous with just dexterity and level alone. I don't mind the change, I actually think this is very accurate. But I have one question: with Two Weapon Defense and Improved -- is the max possible with dual wielding now +7 AC assuming those feats count over the limit?

[Tycat]

Does this still stack with Tumble? and correct me if I am wrong, but +5 Parry Ac, is it like 1 Ac per 5 points in Parry, or was it 1 AC per 2? I forget <_<

That would make Parry stop being valuable for AC after 25 ranks right?

[Phantasia]

Does this still stack with Tumble? and correct me if I am wrong, but +5 Parry Ac, is it like 1 Ac per 5 points in Parry, or was it 1 AC per 2? I forget <_<

That would make Parry stop being valuable for AC after 25 ranks right?

You only get half the parry amount rounded up (I think) when using parry with a two hander. And, yes, more parry would be useless for AC after 25 ranks, unless you wish to use 'parry mode' to which would still be useful in one on one, seldom one on two combat.

[ladylena]

Pretty sure it is +1ac every 5 points.

[Avatar6666]

Will you be letting us rebuilld, since some of the people who wear light armor have spent a lot of points on parry?

[Tycat]

Yeah this seems reasonable. Also,


Soren, the heads up has gone a long way. Seriously.

[ladylena]

Yes! Thank you!

The cap seems logical and reasonable.

[Arael]

I wrote it was overpowered system about one year ago, even if I wished it had a different change it is still something.

You need improved parry to have 1 AC every 5 points if you are wearing weapons like Maul, GreatSword and some more.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

It's only the parry bonus that caps at +5, so with TWD and ITWD you can get +7.

You can still use parry above 25 to compensate for armor check penalty and if you are using a two handed weapon and don't have improved parry. In reality, this change should have only marginal impact and only on very high leveled during certain circumstances.

[Avatar6666]

Oh ok, when is this official?

[FinalHeaven]

Sounds good, assuming you can still make use of the TWD and ITWD feats.  I'd rather not be stuck in a position where I'm simply using Parry to negate armor check penalties, that's the only reason I would want a rebuild personally.  Essentially if I had excess points I'd want to get rid of them, but it doesn't sound like that's the case.

[Syl]

Yes Tycat Parry is 1 ac per 5 points. How ever.. it does not act like tumble in the manor of you need to put the 5 points in... THe AC added in is also effected by gear so you can have 2 points into it but put on the wrist guards which are +3 parry and get 1 ac as long as your skill after adding in any negative factors is +5.

Syl had more parry AC in robes then she has in fullplate since fullplate reduces the parry.

so to simplify it i guess. every 5 points total to include gear gives you 1 ac with parry..

Not sure if that was what you ment to ask.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

The server is up again and done with maintenance, the parry changes are in.

[Elfric]

Might I ask what were these  levels of ac obtained from parry not having a limit on ac gain? Like... how much ac we're talking here. Highest i've seen is +7.

[Telkar]

I can already think of a druid with maximum parry and shapechanging into a death slaad. Let's say he's lvl 20. He has 23 base parry, 7 for feats, 13 for dexterity bonus, that's 43 all in all, so +8. Add aura of vitality to that and you have 45, so +9 bonus. Maybe there are other minor tricks and extra buffs to get to +10. All of that combined with with the dexterity modifier AC is pretty sick.

[IDreamofDaleks]

I for one am happy to see this change. Too many people have told me that in Ravenloft Parry makes it mostly pointless to try and play a 'sword and board' (or anything + shield) front liner, because its more beneficial to take the parry feats. I hope having this changed adds more variety.

[DM Cataclysm]

This seems fair. I don't seeing being able to reach anything past +9 at level 20, if you went all in trying to accumulate parry through skill, stats, feats, spells, and items - so losing 2 to 4 AC probably won't have a huge impact on those characters. Plus - more skill points to spend on other things!

Appreciate the head's up!

[Avatar6666]

With my char cord he was on the edge of getting +10 from parry.

[EO]

With my char cord he was on the edge of getting +10 from parry.

How? I can't manage to figure out how someone could have 50 parry total unless you cast a bunch of buffs, but even then it seems hard to obtain.

[Avatar6666]

Parry items, all the two weapon feats he can stand, high parry skill and skill focus in parry.

[Badelaire]

Was able to get +8 on a bard with ranks, buffs, feats and +7 on a dex monk with ranks and feats but those PC's wouldn't even notice a -3AC drop. +4 and +5AC from parry is about what you would realistically get top end on a heavy armour parry build anyway so the differences are pretty minor in comparison.

[Avatar6666]

Only thing I have seen is this hurt my Monk by droping his ac by two and the practice baton has no affect on AC now. Is this true with all the parry items?

[Arael]

Only thing I have seen is this hurt my Monk by droping his ac by two and the practice baton has no affect on AC now. Is this true with all the parry items?

With your Dex and your level, your parry could be enough to reach the cap without the baton, if not, there could be some problems to update your stats, try wearing a weapon.

[McNastea]

Warded at level 19 Dante gets +8 from parry with a parry item or two in use as well. At 20 that would have been +8 without the items in use and +9 with.

Anyway the wording of this makes it sound like it's just being tested at the moment. Is there any idea how long this will be tried out before being ruled on officially-and as someone else has asked, would rebuilds be allowed? This leaves me with quite a few skill points and two feats that would be wasted if these changes are implemented permanently