Custom rule on instant death spells

[Theorem Of Neutrality]

Voted no, because the full rule won't be implemented from 3.5.

[Bad_Bud]

Voted no, because the full rule won't be implemented from 3.5.

What full rule?

[Theorem Of Neutrality]

Voted no, because the full rule won't be implemented from 3.5.

What full rule?

Unless we're going to be adding True Resurrection, then it'll just function as per standard NwN. Same with Disintegrate, and other spells which destroy the body.

[A normal snake]

Sounds great, while we're at it let's make raise dead work like it does in PnP too. You can't raise things that have been dead for more than 1 day per caster level, and you can't raise things that have been killed with death effects. 

[Theorem Of Neutrality]

Sounds great, while we're at it let's make raise dead work like it does in PnP too. You can't raise things that have been dead for more than 1 day per caster level, and you can't raise things that have been killed with death effects. 

I fully support this.

[IDreamofDaleks]

Sounds great, while we're at it let's make raise dead work like it does in PnP too. You can't raise things that have been dead for more than 1 day per caster level, and you can't raise things that have been killed with death effects.  

[Yes]
Also: Am fine with it costing a level

[APorg]

Also, by the book, Raise Dead and Resurrection cost a level...

[Dread]

Also, by the book, Raise Dead and Resurrection cost a level...

Honestly, I wouldn't mind that at all. But then again, I'm a massive hardass, so my opinion obviously doesn't reflect what others on the team think.

[A normal snake]

Here I was making a slippery slope argument, and y'all agreeing with it.

[Bad_Bud]

Here I was making a slippery slope argument, and y'all agreeing with it.

I think you already can't use raise dead on a body that's been dead for more than two weeks (real days, not game days), and not being able to raise from a death spell would be kinda cool. Sorry bub.

Also, by the book, Raise Dead and Resurrection cost a level...

Honestly, I wouldn't mind that at all. But then again, I'm a massive hardass, so my opinion obviously doesn't reflect what others on the team think.

Level loss is crazy talk. It's not about hardness. It's about having a spar and forgetting to turn on subdual - level loss. Crashing while bleeding out - level loss. Losing connection in a dungeon - level loss. No one wants to deal with that stuff.

[A normal snake]

I'm not complaining, I'm just surprised to see people hop on board so readily.

[Dread]

It's about having a spar and forgetting to turn on subdual - level loss. Crashing while bleeding out - level loss. Losing connection in a dungeon - level loss. No one wants to deal with that stuff.

Good point, that would mean a lot of work for us DM-side incidentally. There's also those people who kill someone, and raise them later in the hopes of creating a scene (though I really think we should have a "blackout" system for that). It's unfair to group those people in with people who died due to their own hubris.

[Dumas]

Limiting a raise to corpses that have been dead for a day per caster level or less? That seems rather unfair, considering this is an online game, and many people can't play all the time due to real life obligations

Also, side note, these instadeath spells.. They are necromancy spells mostly, right? Evil magic? Do they carry dark power checks?

[Dread]

Most death spells do carry DP checks, but a DM can't be around all the time. Of course, if someone who was good-aligned instagibbed someone with those sorts of spells, then chances are we'll find out about it.

[Bad_Bud]

Limiting a raise to corpses that have been dead for a day per caster level or less? That seems rather unfair, considering this is an online game, and many people can't play all the time due to real life obligations

Also, side note, these instadeath spells.. They are necromancy spells mostly, right? Evil magic? Do they carry dark power checks?

Limiting raise, as in the spell Raise Dead. After that time, Resurrection still works.

While most instadeath spells are evil and necromancy, not all of them are. Most notably, the level 9 cleric spell Implosion is not evil or necromancy. Phantasmal Killer and Weird are two others.

[Syl]

Voted against... I just can't help but shake the feeling that this doesn't really add the sort of fear that the sever setting is looking for. We are RP heavy here, and these spells should still be working ICly as killing you, or very very very nearly killing you without some aid. That should be terrifying from an RP perspective already. I do like the courtesy that the current system gives us, instead of relying on something as mechanically cold as saving rolls.

Fear should come from our creativity, imagination and story telling that we bring to the server and is present there already, rather than through a technical thing like this, I think.

While I'm fine with the insta death spells being.. you know.. insta death. And at higher levels and enchanted gear upping your saves true, but i cannot help but get the feeling that I can see people abusing this in some cases just as a easy solution to get rid of someone. it would be like just turning someone into a statue. THey can't do anything about that so they are basicly dead as well. But this is about insta death spells. and people keep bring up, "Bring the fear"... and well quite frankly while instea death does come with the fear of.. Oh F*** i just got oneshooted by a highlevel mage, if it was someone new to the server and the evil cult wants a sacrifice.... well they can easily just be invis.. and next thing the player knows... Poof... they are dead on the ground and they have no clue WTF just happened and or why wiht little to no RP behind such a thing. Or.. it could be as simple as... Oh I don't like you.. FInger of death....can be rather abused in a few senarios.

If you all want bring the fear up then AMp up your attempt to imply fear. there are many creative ways you can do this if you think outside your box. I have thought of a few great plans for evil toons that i played... they didn't happen for reasons not needing to explain. but NONE of them involved a FoD or Wail or death spell be necromancy or illusion. so i'm a bit, indiffrent about this.

Its rather sad though to see people all saying bring them back.. ONLY to up the "fear"... I'm just as scared of a FoD or anything else that can kill me... hells when I see the boss in the fire cave in hazlan cast weird i always go "Oh...Fu-" and run like a panzy in another direction. and even everytime i see a mummy cast destruction..I bite my nails going " DOn't die don't die.. PLEASE MAKE THE SAVE!!!!"... and we wont get starded on Malthor and hellball and Greater Rune...

My point is you shouldn't have to rely on a spell to up the fear for RP of the spell... and okay if you want them to not get up from being hit with those spells.. then have it so those spells drop them to a -8 or -9... thats possible right? and the chance of them coming back are dropped even more.. SO i'm unsure on how to vote either way on this one.

[Bad_Bud]

To say that people are going to go around blasting each other with finger of death is not a sound argument, because going around murdering people is against the rules anyway. Whether a person dies immediately or has to be stomped on after entering a bleeding state makes no impact on the outcome of PvP. If you haven't seen people going around saying, "I don't like you *finger of death*," chances are this wouldn't change.

[Syl]

I wasn't trying to make it sound like i was usign it as a argument. I was merely pointing out a observation about something that could happen... wether it does or not I could give two shakes of a stick less lol... though the whole.. cost a level for bringing someone back from the dead.... YEeeeah... that i might be against since its a bit of a hassle for RP and as pointed above, those incidents where you are bleeding out and the server crashes or you crash and you die...

If it isn't broke why fix it?

[emptyanima]

I would hate the costing a level business tbh, especially as my connection is often unreliable. It would also make things even harder for those playing ECL races! I suppose it would make people more careful, but I like the death system as it is. I am not mechanically savvy enough to always avoid death, but even if I was... Aforementioned connection. Death spells, yes. Level loss, no, thanks!

[Arael]

I don't think this will raise the "fear level" unless used in PvP.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

Concerning the point about sticking to the rules, we already have a large amount of custom house rules. Several of the official DnD books even encourage you to make house rules, so I've always felt the argument of sticking to the books a bit moot.

Personally, regarding instant death spells, I've never really felt they enhanced the experience, especially in PvE when it tends to come out of the blue and just frustrate more than generate fear. These death spells are frightening in their nature, but computer games are more fast paced and so you don't get any time to actually roleplay the build-up, the opponent casting the spell etc. before it's all over.

[APorg]

Concerning the point about sticking to the rules, we already have a large amount of custom house rules. Several of the official DnD books even encourage you to make house rules, so I've always felt the argument of sticking to the books a bit moot.

Oh, it's not an argument, it's an expression of personal preference

[A normal snake]

I doubt it'll change PvP. If a caster wants to off your character, and they manage to get you alone, right now they could use death spells to do it and then just cast something else to finish your character. Personally I don't use death spells when I'm playerside because they're too iffy. Have you seen the saves people get from enchanted gear? There's a lot of better spells casters get up their sleeves, and tactics that are FAR more effective than death spells like timestop/IGMS spam until dead.

[Phantasia]

I doubt it'll change PvP. If a caster wants to off your character, and they manage to get you alone, right now they could use death spells to do it and then just cast something else to finish your character. Personally I don't use death spells when I'm playerside because they're too iffy. Have you seen the saves people get from enchanted gear? There's a lot of better spells casters get up their sleeves, and tactics that are FAR more effective than death spells like timestop/IGMS spam until dead.

This pretty sums up my thoughts on the matter. You're going to be dead either way, and if you fall in combat (due to presumed death spell) and someone drops a heal on you, you're still vulnerable. You have no weapons (in your hands) or less spells, and are a sitting duck if you are dispelled/lose buffs while down. You'll just be offed again, more than likely.

[Telkar]

Didn't even know those spells don't kill instantly, just assumed that to be the case, as it should be imo.

A related topic: automatic save failure on rolling a 1. I've missed that from past servers.