Author Topic: PvP questions  (Read 4785 times)

Hlot

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
PvP questions
« on: October 01, 2014, 07:45:02 PM »
I got few questions related to PvP:

1. If my character throws a caltrops, sets a trap, uses persistent spell that targets area, etc, do I need to set people to hostile? Assuming that I do intend to use it against someone but without ability to chose who will be the victim what should I do? Leave player list intact, set hostile to person I would like to be the target, set hostile to anyone getting close, set hostile to anyone on server? Now, if my character is far away from such place and is unable to check who's getting into, is there anything that can be done? What if it's an NPC, that gets hit without my knowledge? Also, do people affected know what and who has hit them, if the character is far away from place?

2. If my character wants to use spell or trinket, lets say silence for example, for RP purposes - to make other PC stop talking for a while, then how such action should be taken, as on outright PvP and attack, similar to casting fireball on other? Is there any rule or guideline? Is it up to players to decide?

Kendric98

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1681
  • Omnipotent Overlord of the Omniverse!
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2014, 09:00:20 PM »
1. yes
2. yes

Samson/Tatyanna Costella

Hlot

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2014, 01:02:44 AM »
I need to get more detailed answer to first question.

What about playing in disguise? The checks are influence vs concentration and perform vs listen but is there any rule on this? Are people even forced to do so, or is it their own judgement? Beside, is it possible for character to wear mask? If so, which roll against which? How about trying to use wig, facial hair, makeup, modifying skin color etc?

Troukk

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1470
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2014, 08:27:54 AM »
I need to get more detailed answer to first question.

What about playing in disguise? The checks are influence vs concentration and perform vs listen but is there any rule on this? Are people even forced to do so, or is it their own judgement? Beside, is it possible for character to wear mask? If so, which roll against which? How about trying to use wig, facial hair, makeup, modifying skin color etc?

- You cannot enforce "rolls" on anyone. Only DMs can.

- That said, concentration is not a good skill to roll against influence, since it's a CON based skill. Perform is not a skill meant to fool anyone during a conversation, that is what influence is for. And the proper roll against it would be a WIS based skill. Prolly spot or listen.
Not all who wander are lost.

Hlot

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2014, 09:17:04 AM »
When I did it with DM NPC, he was using concentration against my influence and listen against my perform for voice check. I am just wondering because I saw people using many different rolls against influence, this includes discipline and lore.

Ellana Twiggy

  • Guest
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2014, 09:35:56 AM »
This is kind of how I look at things with these checks.

Influence : Trying to get some one to do something or believe something you want them to. In some cases perhaps trying to distract some one.

Opposing checks:
Discipline: To remain firm in resolve if it's something your character might do. (If it's something your character would never do then just ignore the roll, no one can force you to do anything you would inherently never do as that character, this also goes for charm spells.)
Lore: If some one is telling you a lie about history or an object that you might be familiar with. (not necessarily an individual)
Concentration: If some one is trying to distract you. (concentration is what it says it is, to keep your focus and not anything else)
Opposing influence check: If some one is telling you a rumor which is an out right lie and trying to make you believe it (if you don't know otherwise iccly)
Appraise: If some one is trying to cheat you on a sale

I think that pretty much covers influence, if there is anything a dm would like to add please do, but I would Imagine that's pretty straight forward?

HellsPanda

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 6598
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2014, 09:43:02 AM »
Rolls have no place in pc on pc interaction, that is what roleplay is.

IDreamofDaleks

  • Guest
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2014, 09:49:52 AM »
Since we do not have 'Sense Motive' scripted in, which is the natural opposed check to Diplomacy and Bluff , it's really DM digression as to which opposing roll to ask for.
With players, as stated above, you are not required to respond in any way to these rolls.

Ellana Twiggy

  • Guest
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2014, 10:27:03 AM »
Alright, now I'm slightly confused by the response. If this is the official ruling, then we can from here on out ignore what ever another person rolls, and it doesn't mean anything unless it's a dm called for roll.
The reasoning that rolls have no effect on pc vs pc interaction would mean some one in a disguise can automatically be know to others, which has happened on several occasions by this reasoning.
A person can edit their description, they can change clothes, they can hide their face, but more often than not quite a few people ignore the little details like that which is why some do rolls to help re enforce the idea that they are indeed in disguise. A person can't exactly ask a dm every time for an appearance and name change, it would get really redundant, and most likely wouldn't happen. Unless there is something like a disguise kit in the works? Which would be really nice and lots of fun.

EO

  • Assistant Head DM/Developer
  • Head DMs
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 22404
  • The one and only, the one everyone wants to be!
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2014, 10:32:53 AM »
We do not enforce anything when it comes to rolls between players; what this means is that you are free to choose how you want to roleplay. If you and the other party agree to rolls, then go ahead. Some times a roll can be useful sometimes not; if you roll Antagonize but make no effort to roleplay your character being scary then your roll can easily be ignored. However, if the roll just supports the roleplay then it could have more effect.

When it comes to disguises, it's a matter of metagaming then. If the person is realistically disguised then you shouldn't assume it's the same character just because their name is written above their head.

emptyanima

  • Making & Breaking Characters Since May 2013
  • Church of Ezra - Refuge of Fifth Light
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3785
  • She Who Slays Dragons
    • Emptyanima Portrait Pack
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2014, 11:12:41 AM »
However, if the roll just supports the roleplay then it could have more effect.

When it comes to disguises, it's a matter of metagaming then. If the person is realistically disguised then you shouldn't assume it's the same character just because their name is written above their head.

Big yes to both of these! It's why I like it when bards who put a lot of effort into emotes roll really well on a supporting Perform checks. Shows they can talk the talk and walk the walk!

A normal snake

  • SsSSSSsssss
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3749
  • Ssss
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2014, 11:54:35 AM »
There really isn't a blanket rule for disguises, it boils down to the RP involved. I've seen players put a lot of effort into alternate identities and disguises (The Port magician player who has a name I can't remember comes to mind), and likewise I've seen people who dye their clothing another colour or toss on a robe and call it a day. When doing a disguise, an important factor is to act differently than before. If you hang out in the same places and socialize with all of the same people, people are going to figure out who you are. There's a reason why information traders tell people they hire to find out who a target is friends with. If you want a disguise to be convincing, there's more to it than just changing your clothes.

Gideon

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 431
  • Keepin' it native.
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2014, 01:21:15 PM »
Alright, now I'm slightly confused by the response. If this is the official ruling, then we can from here on out ignore what ever another person rolls, and it doesn't mean anything unless it's a dm called for roll.

Slight quibble: it isn't 'from here on out,' this is and has always remained the rule in force. If two players agree to use a roll to sort things out, it's always based on mutual consent, not enforcement. If someone just rolls Influence at me, however, rather than roleplaying, I'm going to ignore it every time. Those rolls are for use on DM NPCs, and that's all.

BahamutZ3RO

  • Master of Many Alts
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2615
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2014, 01:43:36 PM »
Alright, now I'm slightly confused by the response. If this is the official ruling, then we can from here on out ignore what ever another person rolls, and it doesn't mean anything unless it's a dm called for roll.

Slight quibble: it isn't 'from here on out,' this is and has always remained the rule in force. If two players agree to use a roll to sort things out, it's always based on mutual consent, not enforcement. If someone just rolls Influence at me, however, rather than roleplaying, I'm going to ignore it every time. Those rolls are for use on DM NPCs, and that's all.

[influence] 60: You're not going to ignore it every time.
: )




Syl

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2592
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2014, 01:45:26 PM »
But your not goingto believe a 60 influence all the time either LOL

cause lets just face it.... cuase lets face it... if you knew you could roll a influence so high that you could always lie and make everyone believe you... I doubt people will always believe you. cause that just seems more abusing that skill [shrugs]
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 01:51:06 PM by Syl »

Monica O'Sullivan: Master explorer
Tsubaki Yamamoto: Shadow Thief
Roesor Cryso: A slave for the Masters.
Sokol: An Unlikely Hero

A normal snake

  • SsSSSSsssss
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3749
  • Ssss
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2014, 02:18:52 PM »
Alright, now I'm slightly confused by the response. If this is the official ruling, then we can from here on out ignore what ever another person rolls, and it doesn't mean anything unless it's a dm called for roll.

Slight quibble: it isn't 'from here on out,' this is and has always remained the rule in force. If two players agree to use a roll to sort things out, it's always based on mutual consent, not enforcement. If someone just rolls Influence at me, however, rather than roleplaying, I'm going to ignore it every time. Those rolls are for use on DM NPCs, and that's all.

[influence] 60: You're not going to ignore it every time.

If someone who can't RP convincingly tries to bully my character into doing something with rolls, I certainly will ignore it. Often when I see influence being rolled, it's from someone who's tried convincing someone of something and failed, and they feel like they should have won. I also dislike influence rolls because they are disruptive to RP when people just whip it out for no reason. "Pretty please? [influence]" brings blue text spam and it just interrupts the flow of the story.

If you mean influence in terms of the disguise, again I believe it also depends on how well you RP it. A disguise is more than just slapping on a costume like it's Halloween. Like I said previously, you need to actively change who your character is. Another example is Nikolaz Maccon. His rogue group was under threat of being killed off, Nikolaz (a Darkonese guy) fled Vallaki, lived in Village for a while, and built a new persona where he pretended he was from Faerun. It was far more than just an outfit swap.

ladylena

  • Gundie Mom
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3259
  • Meow!
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2014, 02:26:18 PM »
Alright, now I'm slightly confused by the response. If this is the official ruling, then we can from here on out ignore what ever another person rolls, and it doesn't mean anything unless it's a dm called for roll.

Slight quibble: it isn't 'from here on out,' this is and has always remained the rule in force. If two players agree to use a roll to sort things out, it's always based on mutual consent, not enforcement. If someone just rolls Influence at me, however, rather than roleplaying, I'm going to ignore it every time. Those rolls are for use on DM NPCs, and that's all.

[influence] 60: You're not going to ignore it every time.

If someone who can't RP convincingly tries to bully my character into doing something with rolls, I certainly will ignore it. Often when I see influence being rolled, it's from someone who's tried convincing someone of something and failed, and they feel like they should have won. I also dislike influence rolls because they are disruptive to RP when people just whip it out for no reason. "Pretty please? [influence]" brings blue text spam and it just interrupts the flow of the story.

If you mean influence in terms of the disguise, again I believe it also depends on how well you RP it. A disguise is more than just slapping on a costume like it's Halloween. Like I said previously, you need to actively change who your character is. Another example is Nikolaz Maccon. His rogue group was under threat of being killed off, Nikolaz (a Darkonese guy) fled Vallaki, lived in Village for a while, and built a new persona where he pretended he was from Faerun. It was far more than just an outfit swap.

When it comes to a disguise in game, Ophis is right. A simple outfit change wont work. I learned that the hard way playing Tess. You need a solid cover.  I would even go so far as to IC learn how to speak with a different accent, hair change, coloured, cosmetics, etc.  I can't recall using any rolls for disguises, I've just tried to rp it, alter the description in game. Best advice I can give for that, have your pc spend time to develop a new identity
Currently playing:
                          Narcissa Bogdan

A normal snake

  • SsSSSSsssss
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3749
  • Ssss
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2014, 02:41:41 PM »
When I did it with DM NPC, he was using concentration against my influence and listen against my perform for voice check. I am just wondering because I saw people using many different rolls against influence, this includes discipline and lore.

I just caught this. Discipline has nothing to do with influence. It's a str based martial training skill. And lore I imagine is only relevant if someone is trying to convince you of a lie that knowledge would counter. Either way, if someone asks you to make a counter-roll using these skills, don't feel obligated. You're not required to counter-roll influence. If you let the roll influence how your character reacts, that's ok. But if someone tells you that you need to make a counter-roll, you don't need to. If anything I view the influence roll as an independent thing. The roll is cast, and people in the area can decide how to react to it.

BahamutZ3RO

  • Master of Many Alts
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2615
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2014, 02:44:04 PM »
I feel that these rolls are actually incredibly cheesy, not only for the reasons mentioned above but also because the people who use them will go out of their way to stack an obscene amount of influence gear, knowing that there's no way anyone is going to beat their roll because nobody out there walks around in concentration gear 24-7.
: )




Gideon

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 431
  • Keepin' it native.
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2014, 02:45:29 PM »
I feel that these rolls are actually incredibly cheesy, not only for the reasons mentioned above but also because the people who use them will go out of their way to stack an obscene amount of influence gear, knowing that there's no way anyone is going to beat their roll because nobody out there walks around in concentration gear 24-7.

Exactly. People are free to do this hoping a DM might roll up with a persuadable NPC, but otherwise it just looks dorky.

FinalHeaven

  • Ba'al Verzi
  • The Underworld
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1796
  • dat boi
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2014, 02:51:58 PM »
If you can't convince my character through your roleplay that it would be beneficial for him to do something or think something, I don't care what you roll.  This has been my outlook on every server I've played on.



Merry Munchkin

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 934
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2014, 06:55:44 PM »
If you can't convince my character through your roleplay that it would be beneficial for him to do something or think something, I don't care what you roll.  This has been my outlook on every server I've played on.

I would tend to agree wholeheartedly, but with one caveat -- the character you have rolled up may have been built with skills that you (the real player) do not have in real life.  I may not be the most persuasive guy in real life, but if I am playing a bard with a very high influence skill, that character should be superior to me (the real player) in his or her ability to influence other PCs.  The social interaction skills should not be used as a substitute for RP, but I see no reason why such rolls cannot be used to give an idea of how effective the CHARACTER is being, even though the PLAYER behind the avatar may not have the same degree of skill in typing out his or her RP.  Similarly, if you are playing a character of a dimwitted half-orc that ought to be charisma-challenged, the mere fact that you (the player) may be a silver-tongued devil in real life should not trump the fact that your character's influence ability ought to be quite low.

RP is great, and should be first and foremost, but a responsible player should be able use a roll to augment and highlight how well (or poorly) they interact with other PCs. 


Burleigh Burrowell - RIP

A normal snake

  • SsSSSSsssss
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3749
  • Ssss
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2014, 07:07:42 PM »
But at the same time, if someone can't pull off the RP they're attempting, it's just cheap to expect rolls to make up for it. Using the bard example, it's the difference between a player actually writing their own material based on events they witness versus players who rip off IRL songs. Someone could argue that they're not a poet so therefore it's ok for them to sing the twa corbies, but when a player puts in the effort into their RP it always shows. Rolling instead of roleplaying is the same.

Hlot

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2014, 07:56:22 PM »
The big point is, I have rolled temporary character with awesome social skills(influence, antagonize, lore, appraise, perform etc), but who also supports his abilities with enchant magic - spells like charm, dominate, sleep but also blind/deaf and such. All these spells effects are meant to be roleplayed and not used as active PvP weapon. Active disguise is another important factor, as the character is antagonist, but I do wonder how such disguised character can overcome face checks?

Kendric98

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1681
  • Omnipotent Overlord of the Omniverse!
Re: PvP questions
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2014, 11:28:34 PM »
I feel that these rolls are actually incredibly cheesy, not only for the reasons mentioned above but also because the people who use them will go out of their way to stack an obscene amount of influence gear, knowing that there's no way anyone is going to beat their roll because nobody out there walks around in concentration gear 24-7.

Exactly. People are free to do this hoping a DM might roll up with a persuadable NPC, but otherwise it just looks dorky.
But couldnt the same argument be applied to spot, listen, sneak ect ect?

Samson/Tatyanna Costella