Author Topic: Sorcs and Influence Skill  (Read 11196 times)

Tycat

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2014, 04:06:43 PM »
No they get bluff.

And charisma do not mean you are good at influencing people.

Isn't that exactly what Charisma means? Charisma isn't necessarily good looks and only good looks. Hitler was charismatic. He was good at influencing people. He was not a looker. This is what charisma means - interpersonal skills.
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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2014, 04:06:49 PM »
No they get bluff.

And charisma do not mean you are good at influencing people.

Uhm Buddly the defination of Chrisma is influncing people.

From dictionary.com: a spiritual power or personal quality that gives an individual influence or authority over large numbers of people.
from freedictionary.com: a. A rare personal quality attributed to leaders who arouse fervent popular devotion and enthusiasm; or b. Personal magnetism or charm
from Oxforddictionaries.com: Compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others
from dictionary.cambridge.org: the ability to attract the attention and admiration of others, and to be seen as a leader:



Lucadia

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2014, 04:09:22 PM »
If its any consolation , just put what cross class points you can into the skill and theres a few items out there that help. Two rings, boots, belt, equals +22 to skill on influence. For roleplay , thats more then enough to get the point across your trying be influential .

Also, crafted cloths of silk have both perform and influence on them. Up to +6 when enchanted.

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2014, 04:11:16 PM »
If its any consolation , just put what cross class points you can into the skill and theres a few items out there that help. Two rings, boots, belt, equals +22 to skill on influence. For roleplay , thats more then enough to get the point across your trying be influential .

Also, crafted cloths of silk have both perform and influence on them. Up to +6 when enchanted.
up to +9 :D

But yes, that is the plan for my sorc anyway. Still, the op was about why isn't it a class skill. and in response to definitions, the d&d definition of cha:

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2014, 05:17:01 PM »
All I am saying is  that charisma is not only a fast mouth. Sorcs are emotional and probably very irrational. Not always the best people to be a strong influence on people and a leader. But hey! We see where it goes.

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2014, 05:39:14 PM »
All I am saying is  that charisma is not only a fast mouth. Sorcs are emotional and probably very irrational. Not always the best people to be a strong influence on people and a leader. But hey! We see where it goes.

Nor is influence always positive. Based on that alone, let's say you have an irrational, emotional sorc that is influential because he is good at getting his way. Who wants to oppose a pretty face that can blow you up? that's influence.
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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2014, 11:47:35 PM »
All I am saying is  that charisma is not only a fast mouth. Sorcs are emotional and probably very irrational. Not always the best people to be a strong influence on people and a leader. But hey! We see where it goes.

From the d20srd:

Quote
Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness.

Sorcerers are supposed to be natural-born leaders. It doesn't mean that they're the leader in every situation, but... yeah.

Budly

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2014, 06:16:47 AM »
Well yes, they have high charisma. Which is already enough to give them a wooping 4-5 bonus to charisma based skills.

Aren't most classes in DnD made to be leaders? Paladins for anything who fights evil,  Clerics for the religious, druids for the nature oriented. Wizards can be it too (leading a magetower, Luskans for example). Most of them are extraordinary and beyond the commoner classes. They are adventurers and super humans.

And where does it say the irrational and emotional sorcerer is meant to lead?

Oh also the ranger can be the leader of a ragtagband of defenders in some forest and the rogue can have his own  ring of thieves. Fighters can have mercenary bands or some unit of warriors. Bards are smug bastards.

Can we add influence to all the classes then?

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2014, 06:35:44 AM »
So your argument against all sorcerers having Influence as a class skill is that some sorcerers can behave emotionally or irrationally? Because I believe there is an easy solution for that -- if you're playing that sort of sorcerer, don't put points in the skill.

Paladins get Influence as a class skill, as do bards obviously. Rogues don't have to cross-class points into Influence. Clerics don't have to cross-class into influence. You can put as many points into Influence as you might like... If you're playing those classes. With sorcerers, you inexplicably need to make that a cross-class skill.

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2014, 07:55:26 AM »
I like the idea of having influence for all classes!

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2014, 08:01:49 AM »
I like the idea of having influence for all classes!

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Budly

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2014, 08:12:34 AM »
So your argument against all sorcerers having Influence as a class skill is that some sorcerers can behave emotionally or irrationally? Because I believe there is an easy solution for that -- if you're playing that sort of sorcerer, don't put points in the skill.

Paladins get Influence as a class skill, as do bards obviously. Rogues don't have to cross-class points into Influence. Clerics don't have to cross-class into influence. You can put as many points into Influence as you might like... If you're playing those classes. With sorcerers, you inexplicably need to make that a cross-class skill.

Well, I morely point that almost everyone can be good with words. Sorcerer do not come with training of the speech. Which a cleric or bard would probably get, since they maybe preach or are all about being quick tongued. Screaming draconian words and raining hellfire on people is not really training your rhetorical tongue.

The sorcerer already get their +4-5 bonus from charisma to show that their charisma will take this far (if you max out your charisma) and that's already a high bonus on low levels. When you start to meet people over level 10 you need some experience in the area since on higher level it might not be Farmer Bob commoner level 1/4. you are supposed to trick with your words but the Inquisitor of Ezra, Harsh Hardson, lvl 15.

There is classes at the university I go to that focuses on speeches, rhetorical talking. A big mouth and fancy smile might take you far with the peasants and the slumdogs, but that is already a factor thanks to your charisma. But to stroll into already influencial and powerful takes more. 

The high charisma the class have is already as said! An indictator that the person can be a bit persuasive. But unlike the paladin, bard and some clerics. They do not live off/has it as a part of their life to be preaching, acting or tricking people with words. They got their spells for such things.


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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2014, 08:31:08 AM »
More importantly, Sorcerors have Bluff in 3.5, and this server's rules have been historically influenced by 3.5.
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Budly

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2014, 08:44:00 AM »
More importantly, Sorcerors have Bluff in 3.5, and this server's rules have been historically influenced by 3.5.

Aren't spellcasters also historically  some of the more over powered classes in the hands of competent players around here too? Adding Influence is a buff.

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2014, 08:59:50 AM »
More importantly, Sorcerors have Bluff in 3.5, and this server's rules have been historically influenced by 3.5.

Aren't spellcasters also historically  some of the more over powered classes in the hands of competent players around here too? Adding Influence is a buff.

I would disagree with this. In terms of survival and game mechanics, Influence isn't going to overpower anyone. PC's, as stated, don't have to respond to the rolls either. I think this is primarily used as a supplement to those who are more RP oriented than grind-heavy and that isn't going to hurt anyone.

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2014, 09:04:58 AM »
More importantly, Sorcerors have Bluff in 3.5, and this server's rules have been historically influenced by 3.5.

Aren't spellcasters also historically  some of the more over powered classes in the hands of competent players around here too? Adding Influence is a buff.

I would disagree with this. In terms of survival and game mechanics, Influence isn't going to overpower anyone. PC's, as stated, don't have to respond to the rolls either. I think this is primarily used as a supplement to those who are more RP oriented than grind-heavy and that isn't going to hurt anyone.

But if that's the case...give everyone the skill.

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2014, 09:19:38 AM »
We pick and choose which elements of 3.5 we want to add to add to the general atmosphere. Giving Sorcerers Influence would be unbalancing in regards to the OcR checks.

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2014, 09:30:19 AM »
Also, sorcs who actually focus on influence checks, through cross-classing and their own bonus can be just as good as someone with it as a class skill.

It's like wizards when it comes to appraise, etc.

I even have a wizard who with the help of two items + crossclass has a 20, and theres a belt out there that'd make it 30. It just depends on how much you want a skill. Crossclassing may not make you super-pro in something, but if you try hard, you can get real good at it.

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2014, 09:57:35 AM »
Iam laughing at how no one has yet answered the question.
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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2014, 09:59:26 AM »
Iam laughing at how no one has yet answered the question.

We pick and choose which elements of 3.5 we want to add to add to the general atmosphere. Giving Sorcerers Influence would be unbalancing in regards to the OcR checks.

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2014, 10:01:41 AM »
We pick and choose which elements of 3.5 we want to add to add to the general atmosphere. Giving Sorcerers Influence would be unbalancing in regards to the OcR checks.

Neither of the skills that we combined into Influence have ever been class skills for sorcerers in NWN.

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2014, 11:12:04 AM »
If its any consolation , just put what cross class points you can into the skill and theres a few items out there that help. Two rings, boots, belt, equals +22 to skill on influence. For roleplay , thats more then enough to get the point across your trying be influential .

Also, crafted cloths of silk have both perform and influence on them. Up to +6 when enchanted.
Don't forget the Sword (+5?).

I have my own set of Influence items too.

Now since we are talking about this...

-What have been merged to get Influence?
-Other than RP and OCR where else it is used?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 11:22:06 AM by Arael »

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #47 on: September 08, 2014, 11:46:37 AM »
If its any consolation , just put what cross class points you can into the skill and theres a few items out there that help. Two rings, boots, belt, equals +22 to skill on influence. For roleplay , thats more then enough to get the point across your trying be influential .

Also, crafted cloths of silk have both perform and influence on them. Up to +6 when enchanted.
Don't forget the Sword (+5?).

I have my own set of Influence items too.

Now since we are talking about this...

-What have been merged to get Influence?
-Other than RP and OCR where else it is used?

There isn't any other use for it other than OCR and RP lol

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2014, 12:58:02 PM »
Iam laughing at how no one has yet answered the question.


The question has been answered by Blue and EO, there's nothing to laugh about.

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Re: Sorcs and Influence Skill
« Reply #49 on: September 08, 2014, 01:11:33 PM »
Iam laughing at how no one has yet answered the question.

We pick and choose which elements of 3.5 we want to add to add to the general atmosphere. Giving Sorcerers Influence would be unbalancing in regards to the OcR checks.
Oh I missed that. Thanks!
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