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Author Topic: Disable stealth on dead characters.  (Read 3228 times)

Hlot

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Disable stealth on dead characters.
« on: April 10, 2014, 01:13:07 PM »
Not much to comment, as topic name says everything. For me it's not the smartest thing.

APorg

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2014, 01:18:31 PM »
Why?
“Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.”
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LadyDragn

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2014, 01:34:51 PM »
I think the issue is if someone is in stealth when they fall, a party member can't save them because they can't see them?

Hlot

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2014, 02:01:42 PM »
the problem exactly

Tycat

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2014, 02:08:52 PM »
uhhh, is this true? I haven't seen it. Corpses pop up unstealthed.
Or are you talking about bleeding out characters? which honestly, I don't see why you could suddenly see them now that they are laying on the ground bleeding, except that they aren't concentrating on hiding from you anymore (being unconscious takes priority)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 02:10:23 PM by Tycat »
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Hlot

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2014, 02:31:25 PM »
You've just denied yourself. Unless DnD rules state otherwise, or it is hard-coded, unconscious character shouldn't be performing active actions.

APorg

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2014, 02:38:35 PM »
I agree, actually, characters who pass out and are bleeding out or unconscious shouldn't be able to stealth.
“Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.”
― Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo

RedwizardD

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2014, 03:00:09 PM »
Unconscious sneaks SHOULD break stealth. That is actually quite sensible. Hiding takes conscious effort after all.

Feronius

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2014, 03:10:13 PM »
I think the issue is if someone is in stealth when they fall, a party member can't save them because they can't see them?

I can see how that would be problematic. Or messy even.

ManticoreRO

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2014, 03:19:36 PM »
I think the issue is if someone is in stealth when they fall, a party member can't save them because they can't see them?

I can see how that would be problematic. Or messy even.

They can see them if they look down at the body, no?
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Badelaire

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2014, 03:28:31 PM »
Is there a referable example of this occurring? Every time I've been or seen stealthed hit into the bleeding phase, it cancelled out stealth mode. The only exception was being invisible, which you remained even when bleeding.

Hlot

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2014, 03:35:12 PM »
It is happening all the time, good examples are timed effects and aoe damage but also if you are detected and then reactivate stealth mode while still being detected(and you have no idea if you are still detected or sucesfuly hidden) monsters will kill you without breaking stealth again, while you will remain unseen for your party.

Badelaire

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2014, 03:38:45 PM »
Huh, that's a new one then. It always used to break stealth mode when a character was struck into minus HP, most cases of that occurring when hit by a load of area of effect spells.

Tycat

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2014, 04:54:06 PM »
You've just denied yourself.
what do you mean? I was agreeing with you. Being unconscious takes priority.

But with the coding it might contradict stealth vs taking damage, maybe? If you take damage (should something see you) you don't pop out of stealth unless you attack back (or if it's a trap, you don't pop out of stealth at all - But wouldn't it be kind of good if you did? off topic.)

Let's be honest. If someone is dying in stealth, they probably were stalking the person, not with them so how would you know to heal them? Would you want to?

Or

If they were with you, and stealthing here's something you need to consider: When you pop out of stealth in front of people, you have to physically leave the area (or sight) and come back to be unseen to them again. I do this often, where I am reveled to a person but not others. So, if you're stealthing with your party and perform an action - they can see you even if you go back into stealth, unless you break line of sight. If you're dying, you performed an action, would you really pop back into stealth before biting the dust? the likihood that you did, for the sake of this argument, means you probably didn't have time to break line of sight.

I play a lot of rogues and stealther characters, and I have yet to see this as a problem. Let alone seen it. While unconscious, you can leave stealth mode by clicking the button, assuming they can't see you for some reason. That's all I was saying. I have never encountered this as an issue, since dying takes priority to hiding.
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Hlot

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2014, 07:01:46 PM »
We must be playing different game.

Badelaire

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2014, 07:19:25 PM »
Asking around other players who have or had high stealth PC's, it appears to be a sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't thing. I've never experienced that on my own stealth PC's as any situation where they were stealth and were knocked into bleeding they were immediately pushed out of stealth mode. Also never witnessed this on the various shadow dancers, assassins, rogues and bards associated with my other PC's over the years so maybe there's some sort of condition or damage type/spell that doesn't break your stealth when you're dropped.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 07:22:11 PM by Badelaire »

Gideon

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2014, 08:09:55 PM »
Yeah. It would be interesting (if difficult and potentially very annoying!) to try and isolate the cause.

Dumas

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2014, 08:42:57 PM »
On my rogue, I've only rarely had this problem. When it does happen, it seems to be when my character is both in stealth mode, and under the affects of invisibility. It had never caused an issue that's resulted in him not being able to be healed. Usually it seems like the invisibility wears off, or someone that is trying to find my character stumbles about enough so that they bump into him. Often bumping into someone will break the invisibility enough for you to be healed. I think it's related to how npcs can see you if you bump into them while under invisibility. At least, more often than not they seem to see you

Legion XXI

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Re: Disable stealth on dead characters.
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2014, 10:43:24 PM »
I've had this happen across a few of my sneaks.  Most often it seems to be when I'm MOVING while stealthed (with the WASD keys in particular, though not sure it matters) and get knocked into bleeding phase.  My party will see me, but if they happen to break line of sight (as per normal stealth behavior) the bleeding PC vanishes , so you can only revive the downed sneak with AoE heals like Healing Circle because you can't target them directly.

Of course, if you're rolling around with people who have high spot/listen (or your hide/MS are not very high) you obviously won't experience this problem because detect rolls are made as normal.


I think what might be easiest is just have bleeding phase apply a -50 hide/MS penalty to the bleeding PC, in the same way it applies the blindness effect.  It would wear off once you stood back up, no problem.