Barovians, and You: A short message on the truth of the Barovian people

[Paragonville]

So, you want to play a Barovian.  Awesome, Barovia's the focal point of the Ravenloft universe (technically).  But what do you want to play?  How do you want to play this character?  You've heard a lot from your friends and other roleplayers on how you should play them.  But are they really how you think they are?  Maybe not.  Close, but from what I've seen from many roleplayers of Barovians, no cigar.

Education:  It is an absolute fact that the vast majority of Barovians are, in fact, uneducated.  But that is not the case for all Barovians.  I've seen people criticize others for not playing a Barovian who isn't a turnip farmer.  Even worse, if you play them with an education.

Fortunate Barovians to be born in the right family (namely, wealthy families) are normally educated.  Who do you want counting your coin?  The guy who can't do math, or the guy who can?  Who do you want speaking for you in a meeting with some Borcan merchant?  A pig slopper, or an educated man?  The truth is, Strahd cares only about getting his coin, and trade is a good way of getting it.  It is perfectly acceptable to get an education, but it is not the norm.  Barovian player characters in PnP Ravenloft are -exceptional- people.  Turnip farmers don't adventure.  Their bubbles are their families and meager farms.

Magic:  The stickler issue.  I keep hearing about people lusting in private over how Barovians used to eat babies if they caught a whiff of magic.  "Barovians fear and distrust magic."  Correct!  You are absolutely correct.  But they are not psychotic murderhobos who hunt down magicians like no tomorrow.  

Did you know that Vallaki is a hotbed for the occult?  It is!  Did you know that most of the big name families in Vallaki harbor witches and seers?  Yes, it's true.  And most people know it in Vallaki.  Yet, you do not see the entire city burning to the ground.

Barovians are known to collect baubles, amulets, and jewelry which they believe to have power to protect them from evil.  Whether they work is unlikely, but they believe it.  Thus, if they found something that actually protected them, they wouldn't say no.  Offensive magic, on the other hand, is something that truly scares them.  It's like playing with fire.  Expect to be burnt at the stake if you're a wizard running around throwing spells about like nobody's business.

Barovians often visit seers, herbalists, and on fewer occasions cultists.  There is no healthcare in Barovia.  Potions are not feared (healing potions, or things that don't do visual changes).

If you have issue with this, please post. I'd like to hear peoples thoughts, especially from Blue and those who are more loresavvy.  But from what I've read, Barovians are not how many are portraying them in game.

[EO]

Expect to be burnt at the stake

Mostly correct except this; Barovians do not burn people at the stake. That's more Tepest. In Barovia, they're more likely to form a lynch mob and hang/stone/drown you or something. There's no ceremonial aspect about it and the guards wouldn't really be involved since magic is not illegal.

By the way, here's a good topic covering Barovian/Gundarakite roleplay:

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=6563.0

[Paragonville]

Expect to be burnt at the stake

Mostly correct except this; Barovians do not burn people at the stake. That's more Tepest. In Barovia, they're more likely to form a lynch mob and hang/stone/drown you or something. There's no ceremonial aspect about it and the guards wouldn't really be involved since magic is not illegal.

By the way, here's a good topic covering Barovian/Gundarakite roleplay:

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=6563.0

That was a more tongue and cheek statement, honestly.

[Chronox]

Actually, I've always wondered something. Most of us seem to have a general consensus on how Barovians treat magic-types, whether it's right or not fairly debateable. But here's one thing I've always wondered:  How does this culture treat WARRIORS?

I mean, it is obvious that they seem to respect the Guards of the lands, the ethnic Barovians at least. But from locals, I've always gotten a wide range of reactions when my stabby characters tell the locals that they're here to work the stabby stick. A lot of discussion and writing is always on how the natives treat magic-types, for obvious reasons, and not to draw away from that, but through my fair bit of reading and discussing, I've never found a real statement that describes how the culture feels about the :soldier/warrior/mercenary/ whatever they call themselves nowadays" lifestyle.

TLDR: How would Vlad, as a cultural stereotype, feel about a person who makes their living as a fighter, in the "military" and not?

[Geiger]

[Paragonville]

Actually, I've always wondered something. Most of us seem to have a general consensus on how Barovians treat magic-types, whether it's right or not fairly debateable. But here's one thing I've always wondered:  How does this culture treat WARRIORS?

I mean, it is obvious that they seem to respect the Guards of the lands, the ethnic Barovians at least. But from locals, I've always gotten a wide range of reactions when my stabby characters tell the locals that they're here to work the stabby stick. A lot of discussion and writing is always on how the natives treat magic-types, for obvious reasons, and not to draw away from that, but through my fair bit of reading and discussing, I've never found a real statement that describes how the culture feels about the :soldier/warrior/mercenary/ whatever they call themselves nowadays" lifestyle.

TLDR: How would Vlad, as a cultural stereotype, feel about a person who makes their living as a fighter, in the "military" and not?

Outlanders, no matter what they are, won't be taken with open arms by Barovians.  Barovians are fond of martial ability.  Their entire history is one of war, overcoming impossible odds.  See the Terg, Neureni.  Martial characters are respected, though mercenaries are distrusted due to their association with crime.

[Dread]

Actually, I've always wondered something. Most of us seem to have a general consensus on how Barovians treat magic-types, whether it's right or not fairly debateable. But here's one thing I've always wondered:  How does this culture treat WARRIORS?

I mean, it is obvious that they seem to respect the Guards of the lands, the ethnic Barovians at least. But from locals, I've always gotten a wide range of reactions when my stabby characters tell the locals that they're here to work the stabby stick. A lot of discussion and writing is always on how the natives treat magic-types, for obvious reasons, and not to draw away from that, but through my fair bit of reading and discussing, I've never found a real statement that describes how the culture feels about the :soldier/warrior/mercenary/ whatever they call themselves nowadays" lifestyle.

TLDR: How would Vlad, as a cultural stereotype, feel about a person who makes their living as a fighter, in the "military" and not?

Warriors are actually given tremendous respect in Barovia. After all, it was Strahd I, a warrior of tremendous ability, who defeated the Tergs. Hence why Strahd's first four levels are fighter levels.

[Chronox]

Oh, quick responses. Thanks so far! (though now seeing the basic answer to my question in one of the most common books on the setting does make me feel a bit silly about asking) It's cleared up the topic for me, at least.

Actually, I've always wondered something. Most of us seem to have a general consensus on how Barovians treat magic-types, whether it's right or not fairly debateable. But here's one thing I've always wondered:  How does this culture treat WARRIORS?

I mean, it is obvious that they seem to respect the Guards of the lands, the ethnic Barovians at least. But from locals, I've always gotten a wide range of reactions when my stabby characters tell the locals that they're here to work the stabby stick. A lot of discussion and writing is always on how the natives treat magic-types, for obvious reasons, and not to draw away from that, but through my fair bit of reading and discussing, I've never found a real statement that describes how the culture feels about the :soldier/warrior/mercenary/ whatever they call themselves nowadays" lifestyle.

TLDR: How would Vlad, as a cultural stereotype, feel about a person who makes their living as a fighter, in the "military" and not?

Warriors are actually given tremendous respect in Barovia. After all, it was Strahd I, a warrior of tremendous ability, who defeated the Tergs. Hence why Strahd's first four levels are fighter levels.

I did note that, though, I'd always figured since Strahd I was so far back in the history, I was a bit curious if Barovian ideals might have changed since "his" time.

  Barovians are fond of martial ability.  Their entire history is one of war, overcoming impossible odds.  See the Terg, Neureni.  Martial characters are respected, though mercenaries are distrusted due to their association with crime.

That . . . Also makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

[Budly]

The warrior class (as in a class, not a occupation class) is probably still something favoured in Barovia at this time. Strahd might not be the most active figure out in the open but the knights of France for example, was symbolic and even until World War I and if not still that whole elan thing.

The thing is, even if Strahd is not seen as the ideal there will be others to replace it. The local garda in a village or General Ionelus for example. A warrior ideal is easily replaced by another warrior who fight for Barovia. There been several conflicts in server canon to continue this tradition of a warrior elite that is seen up upon. It is a very feudal society in that way. Strahd or not, it is still the ideal and I'm pretty sure Strahd can still be seen as the old hero who did this. Since common man do not know the current Strahd and old Strahd is the same. So to them, that old Strahd is still a hero and a powerful warrior if they learn of him from parents or similar.

There is for example still figures in the middle east that people look upon as a inspiration Umar Ibn al-Khattab (Second Caliph of Islam) is such a figurehead that is still seen as a proper man and a man to follow. And he lived in the 600's! 1400 years ago. So it can still be so that Strahd I is looked upon with great favour and as a hero that young men (and women) should aspire to be like if they take the military path instead of the peasant path of the feudal like society of Barovia. Since in the "military" of Barovia you can progress while a farmer will be a farmer for most of his life and if you do not have a head for trading you will end up a farmer or a soldier.

[MatticusCaesar]

Hi Geiger,

From what resource did that clipping come?  I have both the original boxed sets for Ravenloft: Realm of Terror and Forbidden Lore, but what I read there rings no bells at all.

Thanks!

[VeeTpl]

Since Barovia takes a lot of inspiration and influence from Romania - I can confirm as an Eastern-European that noble figures and society spheres of knight or noble background were always held in high regard - and more often than not, the knights themselves were usually exploiting on that fact.

A good example would be Polish nobility - Szlachta Sarmacka and also the Winged Hussars. The latter being also known as 'the last knights of Europe.

Barovia is an Eastern-European example of the authorities being favoured by the poorer population - but all of it comes from historical examples and backgrounds of that part of the continent.

[Bluebomber4evr]

Hi Geiger,

From what resource did that clipping come?  I have both the original boxed sets for Ravenloft: Realm of Terror and Forbidden Lore, but what I read there rings no bells at all.

Thanks!

It's from Ravenloft Gazetteer I. It's from the 3rd edition Ravenloft line, written by the people who ran Kargatane official fan site.

[Bluebomber4evr]

Since Barovia takes a lot of inspiration and influence from Romania - I can confirm as an Eastern-European that noble figures and society spheres of knight or noble background were always held in high regard - and more often than not, the knights themselves were usually exploiting on that fact.

A good example would be Polish nobility - Szlachta Sarmacka and also the Winged Hussars. The latter being also known as 'the last knights of Europe.

Barovia is an Eastern-European example of the authorities being favoured by the poorer population - but all of it comes from historical examples and backgrounds of that part of the continent.

Before you get too carried away with that line of thinking, I think this quote from 3rd edition Ravenloft writer John Mangrum is relevant:

Feel a need for a quick reminder that the "historical period" Ravenloft is based on is "Universal/Hammer Studios Backlot." It's an artificial world, within the context of a fictional fantasy universe, anchored in a genre noted for its apathy toward anything more than the trappings of history, written at the turn of the 21st century for a PG-13 audience of that era.

[Budly]

Since Barovia takes a lot of inspiration and influence from Romania - I can confirm as an Eastern-European that noble figures and society spheres of knight or noble background were always held in high regard - and more often than not, the knights themselves were usually exploiting on that fact.

A good example would be Polish nobility - Szlachta Sarmacka and also the Winged Hussars. The latter being also known as 'the last knights of Europe.

Barovia is an Eastern-European example of the authorities being favoured by the poorer population - but all of it comes from historical examples and backgrounds of that part of the continent.

Before you get too carried away with that line of thinking, I think this quote from 3rd edition Ravenloft writer John Mangrum is relevant:

Feel a need for a quick reminder that the "historical period" Ravenloft is based on is "Universal/Hammer Studios Backlot." It's an artificial world, within the context of a fictional fantasy universe, anchored in a genre noted for its apathy toward anything more than the trappings of history, written at the turn of the 21st century for a PG-13 audience of that era.

Still, mister Blue. It is Romania to a degree. To base a movie off a Universal/Hammer movie! No offense is a bit flawled no? It is not from my understanding! Not the most deep material to base something on. So I still think Vee is going somewhere with this. It would be soooo awesome with more Eastern European DMs to influence their knowledge of history into Barovia to make it more living and vibrant! 

[Bluebomber4evr]

Since Barovia takes a lot of inspiration and influence from Romania - I can confirm as an Eastern-European that noble figures and society spheres of knight or noble background were always held in high regard - and more often than not, the knights themselves were usually exploiting on that fact.

A good example would be Polish nobility - Szlachta Sarmacka and also the Winged Hussars. The latter being also known as 'the last knights of Europe.

Barovia is an Eastern-European example of the authorities being favoured by the poorer population - but all of it comes from historical examples and backgrounds of that part of the continent.

Before you get too carried away with that line of thinking, I think this quote from 3rd edition Ravenloft writer John Mangrum is relevant:

Feel a need for a quick reminder that the "historical period" Ravenloft is based on is "Universal/Hammer Studios Backlot." It's an artificial world, within the context of a fictional fantasy universe, anchored in a genre noted for its apathy toward anything more than the trappings of history, written at the turn of the 21st century for a PG-13 audience of that era.

Still, mister Blue. It is Romania to a degree. To base a movie off a Universal/Hammer movie! No offense is a bit flawled no? It is not from my understanding! Not the most deep material to base something on. So I still think Vee is going somewhere with this. It would be soooo awesome with more Eastern European DMs to influence their knowledge of history into Barovia to make it more living and vibrant! 

It's very, VERY loosely based on Romania to a minor degree, and it shouldn't be any more than that.

[Budly]

Since Barovia takes a lot of inspiration and influence from Romania - I can confirm as an Eastern-European that noble figures and society spheres of knight or noble background were always held in high regard - and more often than not, the knights themselves were usually exploiting on that fact.

A good example would be Polish nobility - Szlachta Sarmacka and also the Winged Hussars. The latter being also known as 'the last knights of Europe.

Barovia is an Eastern-European example of the authorities being favoured by the poorer population - but all of it comes from historical examples and backgrounds of that part of the continent.

Before you get too carried away with that line of thinking, I think this quote from 3rd edition Ravenloft writer John Mangrum is relevant:

Feel a need for a quick reminder that the "historical period" Ravenloft is based on is "Universal/Hammer Studios Backlot." It's an artificial world, within the context of a fictional fantasy universe, anchored in a genre noted for its apathy toward anything more than the trappings of history, written at the turn of the 21st century for a PG-13 audience of that era.

Still, mister Blue. It is Romania to a degree. To base a movie off a Universal/Hammer movie! No offense is a bit flawled no? It is not from my understanding! Not the most deep material to base something on. So I still think Vee is going somewhere with this. It would be soooo awesome with more Eastern European DMs to influence their knowledge of history into Barovia to make it more living and vibrant! 

It's very, VERY loosely based on Romania to a minor degree, and it shouldn't be any more than that.

Understood but you do understand we Europeans do sit on a lot of knowledge of our nations and neighbours. It would be very fun to implement things that did happen back then. Barovia feels a lot like a feudal society! But I won't throw any arguements about it.

I also believe the region of Romania did change hands a lot back then between many diffrent empires and cultures.

[Bluebomber4evr]

Sure, it's supposed to feel feudal! But there have been many in the past who have insisted that we make Barovians behave a certain way because that is what Romanians would do, and to me that's really missing the point. Not only missing the point of what we're trying to do here, but what the Ravenloft setting trying to do. Ravenloft exists to blend D&D with classic horror tropes like the ones found in Gothic literature (Bram Stoker's Dracula, Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, Matthew Lewis's The Monk and so on), black and white Universal Studios monster movies from the 1930s-1950s, and Hammer Film Productions horror movies from 1955-1974. It is not intended as a perfect simulation of any culture or historical period. Anything taken from real-world history or a real-world culture will be to a small degree and done rather broadly.

So Barovia is certainly inspired by Romania, it isn't supposed to be Romania.

[Budly]

Sure, it's supposed to feel feudal! But there have been many in the past who have insisted that we make Barovians behave a certain way because that is what Romanians would do, and to me that's really missing the point. Not only missing the point of what we're trying to do here, but what the Ravenloft setting trying to do. Ravenloft exists to blend D&D with classic horror tropes like the ones found in Gothic literature (Bram Stoker's Dracula, Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, Matthew Lewis's The Monk and so on), black and white Universal Studios monster movies from the 1930s-1950s, and Hammer Film Productions horror movies from 1955-1974. It is not intended as a perfect simulation of any culture or historical period. Anything taken from real-world history or a real-world culture will be to a small degree and done rather broadly.

So Barovia is certainly inspired by Romania, it isn't supposed to be Romania.

I still say it would be in a view of immersion better to base it off the books of Dracula, stories of Vlad Tepes and Wallachia in the  time period rather then the Hammer Draculas. Some of them do turn very weird and end up in the modern age in the end. So I think it needs to be pretty much handled with care.

Understandable it won't be based full on Wallachia of course! But to some degree when we look at the peasants and such. Perhaps Bela Legosi and Christopher Lees dracula can be a nice indicator on Count Strahd and other dominant vampires. Or how do you think about this? 

[Badelaire]

Strahd's appearance is straight from Universal Studios and Hammer horror Dracula depictions with the cape, suit and medallion. The setting's analogous for a reason, each Domain is its own separate entity taking influences from the various literature and movies you can find listed in the Gazetteers and other source books rather than a series of nations with a shared developmental history.

[Bluebomber4evr]

Ravenloft's version of Vlad Tepes is Vlad Drakov, though. Strahd is based on Stoker's Dracula.

As for the actor inspiration for Strahd, I think that it's obvious that Tracy Hickman and Clyde Caldwell designed him based off of Bela Lugosi's signature look from the old Universal classic, but I've never pictured him sounding like Lugosi. I've always imagined Strahd's voice as that of Keith David doing the same voice he did for Goliath in the Gargoyles cartoon from the 1990s.

[Budly]

Strange, I picture his voice eastern european when he speak common. 

It matters not much anyway! Bela Lugosi was one scary man so it fits.

[Badelaire]

I always imagined Strahd like this:

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qCBCwCZJAmI[/youtube]

On the subject of Barovians, a lot of them come across as way too aggressively hostile and very seldom superstitious or suspicious. Hell, they're even suspicious of other Barovians not part of their community. The burn at the stake attitude towards magic fits a Nova Vaasan much better.

[Bluebomber4evr]

The burn at the stake attitude towards magic fits a Nova Vaasan Tepestani much better.

Fixed that for you.

[Badelaire]

I thought that was all due to the end results of the Inquistion's machinations on deciding which magicians were corrupted rather than an outright local abhorrence to magic like the Nova Vaasans have. The arcane's even banned in Nova Vaasa isn't it? Pretty sure magic was regarded as a very dangerous force of nature in Tepest, best left alone or something along those lines. The Inquisition distinguishes between wizard and sorcerer when afaik, Nova Vaasan Lawgivers persecute both.

[Bluebomber4evr]

I thought that was all due to the end results of the Inquistion's machinations on deciding which magicians were corrupted rather than an outright local abhorrence to magic like the Nova Vaasans have. The arcane's even banned in Nova Vaasa isn't it? Pretty sure magic was regarded as a very dangerous force of nature in Tepest, best left alone or something along those lines. The Inquisition distinguishes between wizard and sorcerer when afaik, Nova Vaasan Lawgivers persecute both.

No, Tepest's Inquisition will burn wizards, sorcerers, druids, and usually nonhumans like elves and dwarves at the stake. The Tepestani view all arcane magic as the corruptive influence of the fey