Eyes of Charming - Heart of Ice

[dark_majico]

Ok two items that I look at and think are a little too powerful for the cost. Eyes of charming, 50 charges at level 10 for just over a thousand gold. Heart of ice, similar price +4 Will, -2 cold resist. I think they aught to be toned down a little. The price is fine but the bonuses they give at that cost seems silly.

[Shadowthrone]

+4 Will is enough to give the item a niche in combating mind-affecting spells. Any less than that and you may as well just use a generic +1 or +2 saves amulet. If anything I'd increase the price so they are less common in loot drops.

As for eyes of charming, I don't know why anyone would ever bother using that. The DC and duration are both too low to bother with.

[Hlot]

heart of ice is very powerful indeed, but making it more rare won't stop people from using it

[Troukk]

With the protection from alignment nerf, I'd say heart of ice is just fine. Helps the overall balance.

[Tycat]

Heart of ice also has drawbacks. As for the eyes of charming? Useless. DC 14 to beat.

[ThePwush]

I like the heart of ice.  It's helped me (and this coming from a monk, mind you)

[Feronius]

Like many here have said already, does anyone even use Eyes of Charming? Does Charm person even have a real use on this server?
As a rule of thumb, I pretty much sell any item that only gives on use casts as an item property, unless it is a one time per day use.

Heart of Ice might be a bit on the cheap side, I'd sworn it was a lot more expensive than a thousand gold when I last checked though.

[Tycat]

Charm person is a very low level spell. Personally, I use it! but that's because I am focused and Greater focused in Enchantment, and the DC is much much higher. As far as items go, it isn't as good as the spell with a feat investment. The cost is pretty accurate for what it does. You might be able to use it on a level 2 pc with terrible will saves (barbarian?) but you can't even use it on a bandit without a little umpth.

[dark_majico]

heart of ice is very powerful indeed, but making it more rare won't stop people from using it

This is not about stopping people from using it.

[Arael]

heart of ice is very powerful indeed, but making it more rare won't stop people from using it

This is not about stopping people from using it.

Heart of ice has no real drawback.

Considering its level it should lower 1 Fortitude saves, not 2 cold.

[Hlot]

heart of ice is very powerful indeed, but making it more rare won't stop people from using it

This is not about stopping people from using it.

All right so how about White Scarab amulet that gives +3 saves vs everything without any drawback?

[APorg]

All right so how about White Scarab amulet that gives +3 saves vs everything without any drawback?

Those are so rare it's meaningless to compare. You're better off comapring them to +2 Save amulets.

[Hlot]

It's not about rarity, it's about power level. As for what you said it's closer to +1 amulet.

[APorg]

It's not about rarity, it's about power level. As for what you said it compares to +1 amulet.

But in this case, rarity _doess_ correspond to power level... a +3 amulet is way rarer and more valuable than a Heart of Ice.

I'd say the Heart of Ice is better than a +1 amulet, though. Specialisation has distinct advantages.

[ThePwush]

It's not about rarity, it's about power level. As for what you said it compares to +1 amulet.

But in this case, rarity _doess_ correspond to power level... a +3 amulet is way rarer and more valuable than a Heart of Ice.

I'd say the Heart of Ice is better than a +1 amulet, though. Specialisation has distinct advantages.

I agree. Specialization can quickly make up for a noted deficiency, or make an already great stat even better. 

[Hlot]

All right, other example. There's a lot of +5 detection gear that is more common and cheaper than Heart of Ice. How does it compare?

[ThePwush]

All right, other example. There's a lot of +5 detection gear that is more common and cheaper than Heart of Ice. How does it compare?

I think more people put stock into the benefits of a save enchancing article than a skill boost.  For example, give someone a +2 universal bonus to saves, or a +5 to a skill of their choice, and I think most would gravitate towards the +2 save bonus.  But that's just me, so I could be completely mistaken. 

In regards to detection equipment, the fact that they are plentiful, and that many don't really specialize fully in it, could explain why they are cheaper. 

[dark_majico]

heart of ice is very powerful indeed, but making it more rare won't stop people from using it

This is not about stopping people from using it.

Heart of ice has no real drawback.

Considering its level it should lower 1 Fortitude saves, not 2 cold.

Unless there is something I do not understand about the game mechanics, you can negate the -2 to cold saves by using a spell like Protection from Elements, not to mention the more powerful versions of that spell, what happens if you combine it with Protection from spells. I should have mentioned that earlier.

[BahamutZ3RO]

heart of ice is very powerful indeed, but making it more rare won't stop people from using it

This is not about stopping people from using it.

Heart of ice has no real drawback.

Considering its level it should lower 1 Fortitude saves, not 2 cold.

Unless there is something I do not understand about the game mechanics, you can negate the -2 to cold saves by using a spell like Protection from Elements, not to mention the more powerful versions of that spell, what happens if you combine it with Protection from spells. I should have mentioned that earlier.

The -2 to cold saves could be the difference between half damage or full damage! That equates to a whole lot against those Ogre High Mages and such.