Author Topic: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]  (Read 4436 times)

BahamutZ3RO

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Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« on: January 30, 2014, 07:59:15 PM »
I present to you, Blackguards:







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Paragonville

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2014, 10:43:33 AM »
Just noticed Hide is a Blackguard skill, yet isn't marked one on NWN.

That needs fixing.

LivingWasteland

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2014, 11:01:40 AM »
Especially given it's a requirement to even take the class.


Paragonville

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2014, 04:50:55 PM »
Bumping this due to recent discussions on improving classes.

Exordium

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2014, 01:38:49 AM »
When flanking an opponent without crit immunity, level 10 Blackguard does get an average +10.5 damage increase per hit from Sneak Attack, compared to having just went Fighter. Also some Saving Throw bonus, at times.

In what ways would you like Blackguard to be buffed and in comparison to what class(es)? (Paladins aren't a fair comparison -- They have ridiculously strict codes and rules and aren't lore-wise the counterparts of Blackguards and BG from Fighter enjoys Weapon Spec and in future, possibly other Fighter-only feats)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 01:40:42 AM by Exordium »

LivingWasteland

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2014, 02:55:03 AM »
Primarily I'd like to see a few of their PNP spells and abilities brought in. Such as their aura, and unholy weapon.


Bad_Bud

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2014, 04:07:56 AM »
Well, a proper fiendish ally that functions like an animal companion would be great, but I imagine that would be a lot of work to put together.


BahamutZ3RO

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2014, 11:37:50 AM »
Well, a proper fiendish ally that functions like an animal companion would be great, but I imagine that would be a lot of work to put together.

...But if it were done, it could be copy/pasta'd over to palemasters for the undead cohort! Two birds with one stone! Would it really be that hard? All you'd really need is a feat that gives a summon spell on 24 hr, and when the creature arrives have it function like faction guards/oxen.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 11:42:50 AM by BahamutZ3RO »
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Paragonville

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2014, 12:51:47 PM »
Well, a proper fiendish ally that functions like an animal companion would be great, but I imagine that would be a lot of work to put together.

...But if it were done, it could be copy/pasta'd over to palemasters for the undead cohort! Two birds with one stone! Would it really be that hard? All you'd really need is a feat that gives a summon spell on 24 hr, and when the creature arrives have it function like faction guards/oxen.

Yes.  I think that familiars/fiendish/undead allies should have a "stay until rest".  Having them disappear midway through RP is annoying as all hell.

Paragonville

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2014, 03:21:19 PM »
So, basically:

Aura: essentially the same aura given by Battletide if I recall.

Spells: Can be represented by once a day items I guess.

Stay-til-rest fiendish companion (since they serve as Dread Companions in Ravenloft.)

manchupechu

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2015, 10:44:09 AM »
Has anything been done to this PrC? Any changes implemented, or planned?

Syl

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2015, 11:05:03 AM »
Last i recall the game requiers you to take some points in hide... as for comparisson they are like the anti pally...Or an evil fighter and champion of Torm mix...

would be interesting if there were any updates to it or changes. [shrugs]

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Merry Munchkin

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2015, 11:35:02 PM »
Well, a proper fiendish ally that functions like an animal companion would be great, but I imagine that would be a lot of work to put together.

I thought Blackguards already got "create undead" and "summon fiend" feats?  Why do they need the equivalent of an animal companion on top of that?


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Olywynn

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2015, 11:42:51 PM »
All of the reasons are stated earlier in the thread.

The next Hak update will fix a few of the PrCs to make them more prestigious (aka more akin to their PnP forms.)

NightMother

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2015, 04:45:45 PM »
On a side note, in 4E the BG is classified as Anti-Paladin. http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Anti-Paladin_%283.5e_Class%29 ,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons) . Unfortunately the standard Nwn mind set of good trumps evil, had caused this class to be brutally undermined. Perhaps a simplier balance issue instead of all the changes above, is make it available at level 2? As I doubt you can hard code it to be a primary base class?

IllusoryWitch

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2015, 10:56:52 PM »
Not intending to raise a dead thread (On the other hand though, it is still on the first page).
But would a corrupt weapon be something that would be possible or desired for implementation?

 


Bad_Bud

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2015, 12:36:25 AM »


+1 Enhancement, 1d4 negative energy


BahamutZ3RO

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2015, 12:41:00 AM »
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IllusoryWitch

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2015, 06:31:57 AM »
Neat! Is this in currently or something being designed?

Question. The only official info I could find on corrupt weapon was this;
Corrupt Weapon
Blackguards have access to a special spell, corrupt weapon, which is the opposing counterpart of the paladin spell bless weapon. Instead of improving a weapon’s effectiveness against evil foes corrupt weapon makes a weapon more effective against good foes.

Any reason it should be negative and not divine like a paladin? Divine is not necessarily synonymous with good. I thought it just meant of  or from the gods. Is bless weapon also different here (1 and 1d4 positive? Or vs undead or vs good or untouched?) ?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 07:05:29 AM by IllusoryWitch »


Bad_Bud

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2015, 09:16:17 AM »
It's not in yet.

Bless Weapon only deals damage to undead. The opposite would be to deal damage only to living creatures, which would be negative energy.


IllusoryWitch

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2015, 09:55:49 AM »
Interesting. I decided to take a good and evil approach to bless and corrupt as I felt it was closer to the true intention
 But I like that you've implemented it.


BahamutZ3RO

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2015, 10:21:48 AM »
It's not in yet.

Bless Weapon only deals damage to undead. The opposite would be to deal damage only to living creatures, which would be negative energy.


...Do they get Unholy Weapon too!?

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Iridni Ren

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2019, 11:15:41 AM »
Just noticed Hide is a Blackguard skill, yet isn't marked one on NWN.

That needs fixing.

This is still true. To be a Blackguard, the PC must have 5 ranks in Hide. But then Hide isn't currently a class skill of Blackguard.

Given the class gets only 2 skill points/level and 5 ranks (alone) in Hide are virtually pointless, the rules of the class currently make the BG throw away those skill points on a prerequisite that can't be meaningfully developed once the class is obtained.

This seems incoherent to me. If to be a BG a PC must be skilled in hiding, why would BGs then be bad at it?

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2019, 08:41:16 PM »
Just noticed Hide is a Blackguard skill, yet isn't marked one on NWN.

That needs fixing.

This is still true. To be a Blackguard, the PC must have 5 ranks in Hide. But then Hide isn't currently a class skill of Blackguard.

Given the class gets only 2 skill points/level and 5 ranks (alone) in Hide are virtually pointless, the rules of the class currently make the BG throw away those skill points on a prerequisite that can't be meaningfully developed once the class is obtained.

This seems incoherent to me. If to be a BG a PC must be skilled in hiding, why would BGs then be bad at it?

This wasn't a bug since blackguards didn't get Hide as a class skill in 3E; it was added in 3.5. I don't mind adding it though since it does make sense.

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Re: Blackguards [Balance Discussion]
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2019, 08:47:10 PM »
I will go out on a limb and assume MS will be included with it, since Hide on its own is virtually useless?
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