Crafting - Is it worth it?

[Dread]

Just be a wizard/sorc and go for enchanting, tbh.

[Ercvadasz]

I honestly think you ought to get a few crafting levels for free, just because it really is a pain to level certain crafting things, and I think it would be part of one's background BEFORE they become an adventurer, something like smithing or woodworking. Maybe you wouldn't be the best at it, but you'd still have some experience.

So, kind of like the background skills you get to choose when creating a new character then?
Except that you then get to choose some bonus levels to start out with in one of the crafts?

most likely everyone wood take woodworking and leatherworking.
I mastered smithing and it can be done. And it is not THAT hard as the two others. Basicly till like level ~25 of smithing you do not even need to leave a certain spot. with woodworking however you can only get this way till like level 13-5.
Thereafter though it becomes VERY time consuming, slow, even if you are a smith.

Smithing is harder than woodworking. Leatherworking is harder than both of them. Herbalism is easy, just ridiculously slow. Gilding is the worst craft in the game, do not take it up, it's stupid to get silver and you will not get your money's worth from it. I haven't tried tailoring. Alchemy I'm fairly indifferent about.

To make money as a crafter, you wait until you're the only smith or woodworker. Then, you charge whatever you want for things. People get upset that it's too expensive? Well they can go cry elsewhere, because they're not getting that thick chitin steel tower shield or that troll steel plate. If you hate crafting every single day, this is the way to do it. Charge people for your time so it's a win-win. If they pay you, you get a lot of gold. If they leave you alone, you don't have to bother with it.

Actually smithing is much easier than woodworking i would say. If you can finance it you can fly up to a decent level of smith VERY fast. (also obtaining coal is not a real handicap as before)

[Norture]

If you have money to pour, smithing is easier. Really though, I didn't find woodworking that hard. I found it far faster to level up than smithing at lower levels, where it branches off is when you can start making plate armour. But, the templates cost 1k each, you need money to powergame it.

[Tyras]

Leatherworking has been a pain.  Leatherworking itself levels up pretty quickly and regular leather and worg pelts will get ya pretty far.  I've found that tanning and boiling lag behind though.  That the craft takes three skills to be effective makes it much more difficult than herbalism or alchemy.

[Norture]

Leatherworking has been a pain.  Leatherworking itself levels up pretty quickly and regular leather and worg pelts will get ya pretty far.  I've found that tanning and boiling lag behind though.  That the craft takes three skills to be effective makes it much more difficult than herbalism or alchemy.

Yeah, and they all don't level up evenly. And with curing it's hard finding dc 20 hides, while dc25 are abundant.

[Feronius]

It would definitely help a ton if it was just one profession / crafting skill you were leveling.

[swbf2lord]

Assuming I'm not misunderstanding Ferounius' post, I have to agree. Some people try to level multiple crafts at once, which can be a huge pain.

The easiest way to do it, is to take it slow, and not try to power through to a high crafting level at once. For herbalism, I gather the occasional herb, and make the occasional potion.
While this may take a while to get to a higher level, the PC's needs aren't abundant, and it works well enough. I don't spend huge amounts of gold in one go, nor do I have tons of herbs in my bags.

[Feronius]

Assuming I'm not misunderstanding Ferounius' post, I have to agree. Some people try to level multiple crafts at once, which can be a huge pain.

Sorry, you did misunderstand my post. I was talking about Norture and Tyras their comments on leatherworking.
How certain crafts require you to level three different crafts, instead of just one, to be able to produce any items.

For example, if you want to create woodworking products, you need to level up both woodworking and carpentry.
Leatherworking is extreme in that it asks you to level both the hide curing, leather boiling and leatherworking skills.
While those crafts could just as well be bundled into one crafting skill, like just leatherworking or woodworking.

[Norture]

Yeah, I just recommended it in the systems wishlist thread. It would help make crafts level more evenly, it's frustrating being well beyond one particular wood/ore type in the main crafting skill but not yet able to refine the next step up.

[swbf2lord]

Assuming I'm not misunderstanding Ferounius' post, I have to agree. Some people try to level multiple crafts at once, which can be a huge pain.

Sorry, you did misunderstand my post. I was talking about Norture and Tyras their comments on leatherworking.
How certain crafts require you to level three different crafts, instead of just one, to be able to produce any items.

For example, if you want to create woodworking products, you need to level up both woodworking and carpentry.
Leatherworking is extreme in that it asks you to level both the hide curing, leather boiling and leatherworking skills.
While those crafts could just as well be bundled into one crafting skill, like just leatherworking or woodworking.

Ah yes, that can be difficult, and one reason I try to avoid said crafts.

[Draxiss]

Even with herbalism (which my character is currently struggling with, having done a total of probably more than 36 RL hours and am level 3), improving is incredibly slow because of the -5 penalty on unlearned recipes and the fact that, even on successes, you get an extremely low increase in CXP.

[manchupechu]

Upset over learning woodworking/leatherworking etc? Try gilding. I have a master smith level 50+. Tried gilding .... DC 20 for a dagger. With a roll of 20, -5 for the recipe, that is a 15. If your stats do not give you +5 ..... you will never be a gilder. Not unless I accept to fail 2,000 times (gaining 1 CXP each time). Which is around 700K gp and 2,000 ingots of silver. And that was tough for me to accept. That my character spent all that time, effort, and gp .... to be a second-rate smith. Yes, I can make beautiful steel weapons, that most do not want in favor of silver-gilded weapons, and steel armour, that most do not want in favor of the lighter chitin.

So, if you have issues with crafting and the time and effort spent ... take up gilding.

[Tycat]

Upset over learning woodworking/leatherworking etc? Try gilding. I have a master smith level 50+. Tried gilding .... DC 20 for a dagger. With a roll of 20, -5 for the recipe, that is a 15. If your stats do not give you +5 ..... you will never be a gilder. Not unless I accept to fail 2,000 times (gaining 1 CXP each time). Which is around 700K gp and 2,000 ingots of silver. And that was tough for me to accept. That my character spent all that time, effort, and gp .... to be a second-rate smith. Yes, I can make beautiful steel weapons, that most do not want in favor of silver-gilded weapons, and steel armour, that most do not want in favor of the lighter chitin.

So, if you have issues with crafting and the time and effort spent ... take up gilding.

While that's said, here's a thing:

Enchanting Silver gilded weapons costs more xp than Steel weapons. The only difference between the two, is that the silver gilded has the dmg to Werewolf - which, after being enchanted, is null and moot anyway. So there really is no point in having a silver gilded weapon if you plan to enchant it, and thus, should enchant a steel one anyway - because it costs less, and who really is fighting were creatures after level 14?

That's hardly second rate in my opinion.

[Syl]

Clearly never fought those werewolf lords lol dem buggers are mighty firece and worth so little.

And for price and difficulty yes I will say guilding is probably one of the more expencive skills other then Armor smithing.

How ever the most time consuming in my opinion is hide curing...

Since the forumal for crafting exp is based off how much it all costs.. ( basically the more expencive it is the more points you get  on a successful make) But for hide curing you only get like 5-10 points on a success since the starting hides are worth like only 1 gold a pop.

I know guilding really is a time consuming and gold drainer of a craft since A: you need 30 smithing to even start it ( to my knowledge) and B: you need ot get the silver... so you either go down into the hellspawn wild magic silvermine.... or hope you get lucky and find that ONE rare silver rock... I've done most crafts now... i've learned guilding just by luck of the dice and guilded a copper greatsword... i've mastered smithing... almost alchemy.. and potionmaking. and sorta dabble in wood working... all crafts in the end are worth it to make some nice things or for RP reasons. just depends on how you want to approch it. hehe either way I wish the new crafters out there luck in their indevers. I do not miss having to mine every day or gather material for making varnishes or arrows or weapons.

[Tycat]

Clearly never fought those werewolf lords lol dem buggers are mighty firece and worth so little.

And for price and difficulty yes I will say guilding is probably one of the more expencive skills other then Armor smithing.

How ever the most time consuming in my opinion is hide curing...

Since the forumal for crafting exp is based off how much it all costs.. ( basically the more expencive it is the more points you get  on a successful make) But for hide curing you only get like 5-10 points on a success since the starting hides are worth like only 1 gold a pop.

I know guilding really is a time consuming and gold drainer of a craft since A: you need 30 smithing to even start it ( to my knowledge) and B: you need ot get the silver... so you either go down into the hellspawn wild magic silvermine.... or hope you get lucky and find that ONE rare silver rock... I've done most crafts now... i've learned guilding just by luck of the dice and guilded a copper greatsword... i've mastered smithing... almost alchemy.. and potionmaking. and sorta dabble in wood working... all crafts in the end are worth it to make some nice things or for RP reasons. just depends on how you want to approch it. hehe either way I wish the new crafters out there luck in their indevers. I do not miss having to mine every day or gather material for making varnishes or arrows or weapons.

An enchanted steel sword does not need silver to cut through werewolf lords. Even a decent gmw would cut through.

as for the price of all that hide curing stuff, pay attention to the warehouse in Vallaki, and look at the "Supplier" section in work available. He'll pay decently for crafted items that are otherwise worth 1 gp.

[Syl]

The " supplier" does not effect the crafting exp Gold to exp ratio... It's going off the vender you buy and sell to... Example You get about 1k for fullplate on a success pratically giving you 1 level per successful make because the item normally costs 1,100 gold to buy the template. 80% of all the hides sell for only 1G and buys for... about the same... the tanning solution only costs 1g also to buy which is really cheap.

Another example.. look at wood working as well. the recipie for buying the plans to make barrels and crates cost 25g to buy. and you get more exp from that then buying normal short or long bow patterns on a succesful make which only cost 7-15 gold depending on the patter.. composit bows givign more of a reqard since their prices are 75 and 115.. short composit and long composit.

SO going off the math and formula.. ( whatever the foumula actually is i know it's there but i can't do the exact math) Hide curing is the slowest skill to level because everything only costs between 1-3 gold until you hit the higher hides like aincent dire croc.

Edit: Again i am not saying no craft is worth it or not. they all are worth it in the end. ( totally wishes you could make your own greater magic bags at the cost of a lot of exp) I cannot say anything about enchanting ( don't have a mage high enough) Nor tailoring. ( haven't tried it yet)

[Tycat]

I don't think you're following what I was saying Syl. I'd be happy to explain in tells and not blowing up the forums.

[manchupechu]

An enchanted steel sword does not need silver to cut through werewolf lords. Even a decent gmw would cut through.

Also, an enchanted sword is actually one -less- to hit Shapechangers. It is +2 vs everything else, but still retains the +1 vs Shapechangers. Yeah.

[Maharella]

Just craft. You'll never be sorry that you did. Just dig in and throw some time and effort in.

[Kendric98]

When Samsons silvered steel long sword was enchanted a couple weeks ago i think it was nine thousand , the same as a non- silvered one even though it said more. I think ...don't quote me on this.

[EO]

An enchanted steel sword does not need silver to cut through werewolf lords. Even a decent gmw would cut through.

Also, an enchanted sword is actually one -less- to hit Shapechangers. It is +2 vs everything else, but still retains the +1 vs Shapechangers. Yeah.

Yeah, that's an oversight that we'll fix actually.

[de_reguer]

I honestly think you ought to get a few crafting levels for free, just because it really is a pain to level certain crafting things, and I think it would be part of one's background BEFORE they become an adventurer, something like smithing or woodworking. Maybe you wouldn't be the best at it, but you'd still have some experience.

So, kind of like the background skills you get to choose when creating a new character then?
Except that you then get to choose some bonus levels to start out with in one of the crafts?

most likely everyone wood take woodworking and leatherworking.
I mastered smithing and it can be done. And it is not THAT hard as the two others. Basicly till like level ~25 of smithing you do not even need to leave a certain spot. with woodworking however you can only get this way till like level 13-5.
Thereafter though it becomes VERY time consuming, slow, even if you are a smith.

Smithing is harder than woodworking. Leatherworking is harder than both of them. Herbalism is easy, just ridiculously slow. Gilding is the worst craft in the game, do not take it up, it's stupid to get silver and you will not get your money's worth from it. I haven't tried tailoring. Alchemy I'm fairly indifferent about.

To make money as a crafter, you wait until you're the only smith or woodworker. Then, you charge whatever you want for things. People get upset that it's too expensive? Well they can go cry elsewhere, because they're not getting that thick chitin steel tower shield or that troll steel plate. If you hate crafting every single day, this is the way to do it. Charge people for your time so it's a win-win. If they pay you, you get a lot of gold. If they leave you alone, you don't have to bother with it.

Tailoring levels fairly quickly. That said there are some weird quirks in the templates. Wool is overall slightly more useful to a greater cross section of characters since it adds decent cold resistance. Silk really only benefits bards. Moreso after adding enchantments. Both linen and cotton have the exact same 25% damage vulnerability vs fire with no benefits unenchanted. I cant tell you if they are different enchanted since Ive never seen or heard of anyone wasting the EXP to enchant linen or cotton. for trimming all of them ancient dire crocodile is really the only one worth getting since gargoyle was nerfed.