More help for a confused noob

[HoshaZilo]

It's not letting me quote this directly for some reason
Custom Feat Progression

To allow more focus on shaping a character by story elements rather than pure power considerations, and not make people have to choose between the two, we have revised the amount of feats gained. The list of feats gained is as follows:

For fighters and weapon masters:

Code:

Level:    1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20

Feats:    1   1   2   1   1   2   1   1   2   1   1   2   1   1   2   1   1   2   1   1

All others:

Code:

Level:    1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20

Feats:    1   1   1   0   1   1   0   1   1   0   1   1   0   1   1   0   1   1   0   1


Note that when multiclassing, you gain one less feat at first level of the new class compared to the above chart. This is because the chart also adds to the list the first feat you always get when starting out a new character.

Alright so, I created a Bard/Fighter (going for AA eventually (hopefully)) And I took the first two levels as bard then went 2 Fighter, and then back to Bard

Level:    (bard) 1   2  (Fighter) 3  4   (Bard)  5

Feats:             1   1                0  1             1


Am I wrong in this, do you really loose a feat every time you switch classes?            

[Ellana Twiggy]

The code is based on class level not over all level.

Technically you should be looking at:

Level:
Over all-     1   2     3    4    5    
Bard -        1   2                3
Fighter-                 1    2    
Feat-         1   1     0    1    1

Given that classes taken on the first level usually only get one feat, and that your combined level factors in bonus feats. . .well. . .I think something might be missing in the way you are factoring in feats some how. If you are missing a feat, as demonstrated by said chart:  Such as Z's statement : Note that when multiclassing, you gain one less feat at first level of the new class compared to the above chart. This is because the chart also adds to the list the first feat you always get when starting out a new character.

It's not letting me quote this directly for some reason
Custom Feat Progression

To allow more focus on shaping a character by story elements rather than pure power considerations, and not make people have to choose between the two, we have revised the amount of feats gained. The list of feats gained is as follows:

For fighters and weapon masters:

Code:

Level:    1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20

Feats:    1   1   2   1   1   2   1   1   2   1   1   2   1   1   2   1   1   2   1   1

All others:

Code:

Level:    1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20

Feats:    1   1   1   0   1   1   0   1   1   0   1   1   0   1   1   0   1   1   0   1


Note that when multiclassing, you gain one less feat at first level of the new class compared to the above chart. This is because the chart also adds to the list the first feat you always get when starting out a new character.

So, when taking your first level of fighter at lvl 3 you would receive no feats.  Fighter would have been a better first choice in class, as you would have had more feats upon creation, well, if human.

[queenofspades]

And that list does count the feat you get at first level.

[Amon-Si]

You always receive a feat at 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18.
Always.

[HoshaZilo]

But the problem is I didn't get a feat at level 5 (when I retook bard again) Not sure why I didn't include that in the post

[Indigocell]

I noticed that the way the system is set up, it does allow for weird distortions in feat progression if you're a multiclassed character.

For example I have a Fighter/Rogue.  I believe my first 2 levels were fighter, and my third was rogue.  I honestly don't recall.

I noticed that if I were to take more Rogue levels at 4 and 7, I would not receive a feat with them.

However, if I were patient enough and took them at say 5 and 8 instead.  I would get two feats from those Rogue levels, even if the end result of my level split is the same.

I'm not advocating for a change or anything, just good to be aware that if you're not careful about when and where you take those multiclass levels, you could miss out on a lot of feats.

Based on what you are saying though, I don't know why you wouldn't have gotten a feat at level 5.

Note: I could be entirely wrong about this, but it did seem to match up with the feat progression on that list.  Perhaps a coincidence.

[Indigocell]

Sorry, I realized I should explain why I think feat progression is tied to character level and not class level.

At character level 7 for my Fighter/Rogue, I took my 3rd Rogue level and did not receive a feat.

Based on that list, I should have received a feat for the 3rd Rogue level since it is level 4 Rogues that do not get a feat.  However, lvl 7 Rogues also do not get a feat and that is what my character level happened to be.  Coincidence, bug, or working as intended?

[Telkar]

Working as intended. The list above takes into account all feats, including those acquired normally on character level (core feature of the game), and bonus feats acquired on class level (PotM specific feature).

It is better to think of the core feats and the PotM feats separately since one set follows character level, and the other class level.

If you take away the core nwn feats, acquired by character level on level 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15 and 18, you are left with the following progression for each class level:

For fighters and weapon masters:

Code:

Level:    1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20

Feats:    0   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1

All others:

Code:

Level:    1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20

Feats:    0   1   0   0   1   0   0   1   0   0   1   0   0   1   0   0   1   0   0   1

The reason you didn't get a feat on that rogue level is because in the above, rogues don't get a feat on level 3. But you certainly got a feat on your 3rd character level.

[Indigocell]

I see, so in that way it avoids distortions like I thought?  I think I get it now.

[Telkar]

If your meaning of distortion is when you miss out on feats or get too many feats, then yes. If you have a multiclass character, you would have the same amount of feats in whichever order you take your levels.

[Bad_Bud]

It matters when you take levels for certain classes, only in respect to feats the feats gained at 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18.  I think Divine Might and Divine Shield are only available on these levels, so if you were a muticlass cleric and you only took fighter levels at those points, you'd never be able to select Divine Might or Divine Shield.

[Norture]

The easiest way to plan out character feat progression is to do this. Get the custom list of feats open, and know that all feats at levels multiple of 3 are tied to that total level number and not the class itself. Then open wordpad and list levels 2-20. Then just go through each level and add feats to the build based on those two things. And on some levels you might get 2 feats per level, because it will be a bonus feat level as well as a multiple of 3 level.

For example let's take cleric 12 rogue 8, with the first 2 levels being cleric. Now normally when you crossclass you won't get a feat on the first level of your crossclass, but if you take rogue 1 at level 3 you will get the level 3 feat. But on level 4, if you make it cleric 3, you will not get a feat. If you make it rogue 2, you will get a feat. This is because if you check the character progression chart, cleric 3 only gets a feat because it's level 3 and not a bonus feat. So if you take the level outside of a bonus feat level, you won't get it. And rogue 2 would get a feat because level 2 is a bonus feat level for rogues.

[Bad_Bud]

Class level is the number of levels you have in a particular class.

Character level is the sum of all your class levels.

For most classes, at class level 2 and every 3 class levels after, you get a bonus feat.  Another way to describe it: you get a bonus feat every class level before multiples of 3: meaning 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 20.

For fighters, bonus feats arrive at every class level except 1.

For wizards, bonus feats arrive every class level that's not a multiple of 3 (excluding level 1).

Everyone gets a general feat at every character level that's a multiple three, and at level 1.  These feats are in addition to bonus feats, and generally offer a larger selection of feats to choose from.