Dungeon suggestions - making the challenge more exciting

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

This topic is somewhat in extend of Geiger's topic here: http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=35364.0 and somewhat mirroring it.

All in all, I think we all agree that adding more dynamic (e.g. with random elements) and varied challenges would make dungeons more exciting. What I want you to use this topic for is propose more specific things, like what particular dungeons could need more of what. This will make it easier for us as developers to pinpoint the current weak points and improve on them.

/Update

A lot of great stuff coming already, but when I say specific, I mean the very concrete stuff mainly, and preferable something not overly involving.

Examples could be the need for traps in certain parts of a specific dungeon, obstacles, locks on doors, or adding some ambush points in specific spots. Or suggestions for new spawn types in a dungeons, or revising the amount spawned, etc.

Of course, every dungeon shouldn't feature everything (or it would make the server overall be trivial), but if you got suggestions for adding a certain things in a place that would make the dungeon a lot more interesting, that would be much welcomed.

[dutchy]

Puzzles,and levers like below the ML crypt.
That would require 2 people at least so it screams team up.

If certain places could get random spawns. That would be something else aswell.

Traps.I hate stepping into one but giving the rogues more to do being more valuable would be nice as well.

Also I remember again below in the ML crypt there is a pool of water with enough con or sex you could have crossed it, how about add a room here and there that could be accessible only of you roll the right ability score and has creatures in them that fit the ones able to go trough.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

dutchy, it would be more of a help if you tried to be specific to certain places. Sure, I know that there are many, but we have to start some place anyway. Perhaps start with the places you feel are most trivial or pushover.

[Badelaire]

Puzzles,and levers like below the ML crypt.
That would require 2 people at least so it screams team up.

If certain places could get random spawns. That would be something else aswell.

Traps.I hate stepping into one but giving the rogues more to do being more valuable would be nice as well.

Also I remember again below in the ML crypt there is a pool of water with enough con or sex you could have crossed it, how about add a room here and there that could be accessible only of you roll the right ability score and has creatures in them that fit the ones able to go trough.

Novel approach to tackling the demi-plane of dread. The Vestibule, Vaults of Attainment and the VoB Well could use some sort of jazzing up in my opinion. The Well especially. It's very long, often empty, little to no reward and quite often the pads never seem to work the doors.

[Cursed Ink]

I really like the ambush spawns in the ML crypt, the [Bones stir from the walls] or what ever it says, dynamic actions, just... unexpected moments I suppose. Would it be difficult to have every so often running into a randomised 'Treasure Hunter' spawn of living NPC enemys also delving into the tombs and crypts?

[Tyras]

I would like to see encounters where players are made to change up their tactics, spell loadouts, and roles that are used in a frontal assault type approach to dungeons.

Creatures in certain areas of a dungeon that devour magic, possibly with a dispell on hit type mechanic, and are highly resistant to magic if not immune from it.  This could cause players to cycle in the melee members of their party to get as many hits in as they can before all of their buffs are gone and run back to casters in the rear to get new buffs while somebody else steps up to hold the creatures off.  It would also have the effect of causing casters to memorize more buffs and fewer offensive spells.

In another encounter it could be the opposite.  The creatures are so hardened that blows and piercing from weapons and arrows simply bounce off.  It is a rush for the casters to kill the creatures with magic before the melee people who can only take the blows of the creatures fall.

Ranged only encounters.  A place inacessable to players while creatures are "alive" there.  Perhaps they players would have to range attack down monsters before a door will open, or a bridge will become accessable. 

Creatures that require special tactics, like rust monsters, and oozes always shake things up.  Perhaps a creature harmed by a certain damage type (physical, magic etc) would explode causing an AoE effect.  It could even cause a clone of the same monster to come into being from the remans of the exploded orignial.  It would require players to figure out what damage type is good for the encounter and which one is bad.  I don't know the guts and gears of how the game works, but maybe the dungeon or different areas of a dungeon could have creatures randomly generated with different damage types that will set them off.  Physical, magical, fire, electrical, acid, negative, sonic, etc could all be a hinderance or the key to victory in the dungeon in a random fashion.  Something to break up the standard equipment, consumable and spell load outs people use all the time.

A few ideas.  I have more, but I'm not sure this is exactly the sort of feedback you're looking for.

[Squeak]

I'm not picking a dungeon . . . but enemy's that fall apart, into more weaker enemy's.  Possibly skeleton's becoming animated arms, legs, hands, and a head.

The skeleton cave where you get the Vestiblue key, offer up different style of opponents, possibly some skeleton's that on death infest those around them with poison or explode in minor fireball (it's a relatively low level dungeon so limit the damage abit) or possibly having it so behind one of the doors' there's a boss that cannot be killed until some manor of puzzle is completed first.

A number of different style of traps in various places with like a 1% chance of spawning, perhaps in Har'Akir somewhere such as a trap that fire's off the spell effect for darkness followed by spawning 1 or 2 Anubis Disciples, buffed with ultra vision and greater stone skin.

[Old Nights Caress]

Some ideas for the Mines beneath Dvergeheim -

A rework of some of the areas could go a long way, perhaps making a few pathways that can be collapsed to prevent passage or to provide openings into offshoots of the dungeon that won't always be available. A network of tunnels that can force players to take less desireable routes through areas infested by certain foes.  Perhaps even a dreaded chamber of rusties.

Large stone piles/rubble along the walls.  A trigger placed near it with a small chance of firing an event where the stone/rubble is destroyed by a tunneling umberhulk who spawns mere feet away from the hapless victim.

A few small variable caves players can 'drop' into during a quake as the floor beneath them gives way.  Aka player ports to the zone and a "hole" object is spawned in at the location.  Others can use the hole to drop in to aid the one beneath, but they will need to figure out how to escape.  The small instances could be filled with any number of random critter much like the tunnels themselves.  Perhaps the party will need to have rope/grapple to escape, and without may have to scour the remains of former victims to find them.

Patrols from the depths - Perhaps on a high Alhoon spawn, players might find themselves beset by a patrol of golems sent out by the Alhoon to gather resources of some sort.  They could possibly appear via some magical portal and wander a short time and return to the portal and vanish with it, a foolish adventurer might try to enter the portal as well, sending them into the depths of the alhoon's lair itself.

[Crimson Shuriken]

If possible, At a random interval or random waypoint, have a dungeon spawn creatures in a random location (perhaps even behind you as you have the feeling you "cleared") part of the map. I think such a thing would work well. Ex. -  in a place like Ivlis Marsh, where the creature(s) spawned by such a system could range from a very stealthy swamp predator such as a snake or crocodillian, to another patrol of moormen, to a dreadfully powerful spellcasting small or tiny fey creature.  Such a system mirrors the Random Encounter model based on terrain type in the DMG, offers just enough unknown to create different permutations and replayability, as well as creating a uniqueness feeling to a particular group's travel that day as at least part of their experience is unique to any other possible trips to that place that day. Keeps everyone on their toes.

Another idea I have had, is requiring skill checks to bypass or navigate an obstacle.  A series of checks, each unlikely to be doable by the same character, perhaps a DC 40 tumble check to get across a chasm and drop the drawbridge for others,  followed by a DC 50 search check to to locate the hard to find switch, followed by a lore check to decipher the cryptic instructions on the wall, and rounded out by a Terg/Neureni ruins style high STR check to open the bosses room and/or treasure chest. Bringing more importance to the other things that make up characters usefulness not directly related to slaying obstacles would be a welcome addition.  (Or dialogue tree npcs using Influence, Intimidate etc, I love those)

[Ellana Twiggy]

I remember seeing cage traps before, wonderful cage traps which surround you and put you in a bag situation. Loved them. Puzzles like from hordes of the under dark are also quite amazing, having to use your head as much as your fighting prowess to get through an elaborate dungeon would be thrilling. I'm surprised the alhoon doesn't have some tricks going on in his lair to keep out weary adventurers. which reminds me, the info check things in the alhoon don't work anymore it seems.
The alhoon was suppose to be raising an army to steal the dark crystal, where is his army out side of his lair, why aren't they building more out side his lair and setting up camp or something in preparation for a siege of dervishiem after all these years?
The vestibule, its mostly just a large empty space with a few zombies, not even the skeletons are there any more and there's only a few chests for loot which is usually junk. The tricks in the vestibule are outstanding though, having to pull chains to open doors and other things so that you can get around. but it still feels empty and lacking in a large way.
Why not add a nile type river in har'akir with crocs.
Why not have a turning statue puzzle in order to get a door open?
walls of force which require a spell craft check to dispel and get by?
riddle doors?
putrid water in swamps that requires a disease/poison check?
swamp gass! Acid fog traps?
There are a number of ways to spruce up dungeons to make them more exciting and interesting.

[Little Lotte]

I'd love to see Wild Magic.

A wizard runs in, says the appropriate incantation for firebrand and instead of lighting all the enemies on fire...turns into a chicken. Something along those lines.

[dutchy]

Can do but this will be said in parts as my mind can be chaotic.

Below the orphans maybe a gas trap.
Text.  The poisonous gas of a pit of dead bodies penetrate your nose.   Etc etc.

Where wolf caves, that little touch with the boat is awesome but it could use some secret places or a puzzle I mean marooned pirates are sneaky folks.

Vamp crypts.
Add anything that creates more team work that place is Farmville for certain lvls.

[Juice]

I'd love to see Wild Magic.

A wizard runs in, says the appropriate incantation for firebrand and instead of lighting all the enemies on fire...turns into a chicken. Something along those lines.

I like this places like the mist or where magic would be out of balance by something more powerful would cause PC arcane spells to go on the fritz.

"Dont worry let me give you mage armor [casts] yesh..... didnt mean to fireball you there buddy."

Also I remember again below in the ML crypt there is a pool of water with enough con or sex you could have crossed it,

lol wut?

More random loot monster spawners, like the grave scarabs and carrion stalkers, except they live in harder dungeons and are in harder chests or what have you. Might even cut downon ninja looting if when they bust open a chest they have to fight what ever comes out. Adds a bit of a jack in the box surprise element too.

[Maric Arnand]

More random loot monster spawners, like the grave scarabs and carrion stalkers, except they live in harder dungeons and are in harder chests or what have you. Might even cut down on ninja looting if when they bust open a chest they have to fight what ever comes out. Adds a bit of a jack in the box surprise element too.

Mimics, both lesser, normal and greater yes! Also wild magic would be a great addition, as well as dead magic zones maybe. Maybe lowering the ridiculousness of the ML crypts a tad because it is a tad over powered currently in my opinion.

Maybe something in Retazet, or how ever its spelled forest, there is so much potential there. Watcher Province from what I have seen good, not really much to do though especially now that IC the Zeklos crypts are a no go.

VoB, never realy did it except ivlis marsh once or twice and that ridiculously long cave dungeon once. It was quite intresting when I went, but felt a bit inflated.

Dementilieu is fine if you can handle it, but would love some lowbie friendly and  accessible places to adventure there.

Hazlan I cant realy say never ventured much there, Blaustein is good, but wish there were something other than reavers.

Har'Akir is awsome!

Perfidus...only been twice, and of those trips only one was by choice, so cant realy say did look amazing and got a great feel to it.

[Old Nights Caress]

I'm not entirely certain where this one might fit best, however...

A Treasure Vault with a complex locking mechanism tied to 3-4 guard golems.  Each golem would have a specific strength and weakness to it, however they have to be killed in a specific order to unlock the vault.  The order could be random each time it resets.  after defeating the golems they pull a lever to open the door, if they did not kill them in the proper order(or perhaps within a specific trigger spot?) the golems are reanimated.   Tie the XP gain to the actual opening of the vault rather than the golems themselves to prevent farming.



Bandit Crypts under the Old Svalich Road -

This could be an ideal place to add some of the "stat-roll" type events.  By removing sections of the walkways between the platforms it could require a player to attempt to leap over the gap and fix rope to the far side for others to cross, failure on the leap would send them into the depths where they would have to climb back out at some location or another.  There could be a narrow ledge in a similar fashion somewhere that requires a dexterous person to shimmy along the wall to the other side, again requiring rope to set up means for less dexterous to cross.  Toss in a few range wielding foes on the platforms to hinder advancement, perhaps even have some platforms players cannot access, but with a door that can open via triggers to allow more archers to rush out to fire upon the invading PC's even after they believe them to be cleared.



Morninglord Crypts - A section of the crypts down deep that is still sanctified,  A hidden door preventing access to any that does not hold an amulet of the morninglord(the cheap ones without magical properties)  Players can enter to rest and recoup, however.... the dark forces at work can sense them entering and begin to arrive near the hidden entrance in numbers to ambush them when they leave.  The chamber could have some small boon to players within, perhaps a priest who would offer a few enchantments in exchange for some supplies(bandages/food/coin etc).  He refuses to leave while the area is yet protected so he may continue to recharge the wards and look for a way to end the threat.




Sullen Woods - Shadows killed near a Shadowood tree could empower the tree, awakening a Dark Ent who possesses some of the properties of the Shadows themselves.  It could require a certain number of CR levels to actually happen.



Reavers Lair Beneath Blaustein - Have a few ghostly NPC's, victims of the Hag, Initially non-hostile, give them a conversation(random) where PC's can seek to recover an item they treasured in life likely still on their corpse.  Returning the item to the ghost puts it at res(and grants a small xp reward)t, however some ghosts merely become enraged and attack when approached, possibly wailing and drawing attention of more Reavers from the nearby waters.

[Stygian Messiah]

I wouldn't mind seeing puzzles with a horror flair, like these:

Spoiler: show

Hangmen:

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea7k94oBRFw[/youtube]

Confession (I don't even remember what this actually did, but it was pretty creepy):

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYQVL8eTa7U[/youtube]

I'm also a fan of surprise encounters and chambers (maybe something to randomize in certain dungeons), and getting chased by some over the top monsters. Sort of like Nemesis or the Red Pyramid. The sort of thing where escape is just as much a victory as slaying the beast.

[BahamutZ3RO]

Blaustein is a tiny, tiny place with a lot of promise. Just expanding the place into more areas would be nice. Or adding other dungeons to the domain! I don't know.

[dutchy]

I'm not entirely certain where this one might fit best, however...

A Treasure Vault with a complex locking mechanism tied to 3-4 guard golems.  Each golem would have a specific strength and weakness to it, however they have to be killed in a specific order to unlock the vault.  The order could be random each time it resets.  after defeating the golems they pull a lever to open the door, if they did not kill them in the proper order(or perhaps within a specific trigger spot?) the golems are reanimated.   Tie the XP gain to the actual opening of the vault rather than the golems themselves to prevent farming.



Bandit Crypts under the Old Svalich Road -

This could be an ideal place to add some of the "stat-roll" type events.  By removing sections of the walkways between the platforms it could require a player to attempt to leap over the gap and fix rope to the far side for others to cross, failure on the leap would send them into the depths where they would have to climb back out at some location or another.  There could be a narrow ledge in a similar fashion somewhere that requires a dexterous person to shimmy along the wall to the other side, again requiring rope to set up means for less dexterous to cross.  Toss in a few range wielding foes on the platforms to hinder advancement, perhaps even have some platforms players cannot access, but with a door that can open via triggers to allow more archers to rush out to fire upon the invading PC's even after they believe them to be cleared.



Morninglord Crypts - A section of the crypts down deep that is still sanctified,  A hidden door preventing access to any that does not hold an amulet of the morninglord(the cheap ones without magical properties)  Players can enter to rest and recoup, however.... the dark forces at work can sense them entering and begin to arrive near the hidden entrance in numbers to ambush them when they leave.  The chamber could have some small boon to players within, perhaps a priest who would offer a few enchantments in exchange for some supplies(bandages/food/coin etc).  He refuses to leave while the area is yet protected so he may continue to recharge the wards and look for a way to end the threat.




Sullen Woods - Shadows killed near a Shadowood tree could empower the tree, awakening a Dark Ent who possesses some of the properties of the Shadows themselves.  It could require a certain number of CR levels to actually happen.



Reavers Lair Beneath Blaustein - Have a few ghostly NPC's, victims of the Hag, Initially non-hostile, give them a conversation(random) where PC's can seek to recover an item they treasured in life likely still on their corpse.  Returning the item to the ghost puts it at res(and grants a small xp reward)t, however some ghosts merely become enraged and attack when approached, possibly wailing and drawing attention of more Reavers from the nearby waters.

You sir keep posting

[Juice]

I'm not entirely certain where this one might fit best, however...

A Treasure Vault with a complex locking mechanism tied to 3-4 guard golems.  Each golem would have a specific strength and weakness to it, however they have to be killed in a specific order to unlock the vault.  The order could be random each time it resets.  after defeating the golems they pull a lever to open the door, if they did not kill them in the proper order(or perhaps within a specific trigger spot?) the golems are reanimated.   Tie the XP gain to the actual opening of the vault rather than the golems themselves to prevent farming.

Bandit Crypts under the Old Svalich Road -

This could be an ideal place to add some of the "stat-roll" type events.  By removing sections of the walkways between the platforms it could require a player to attempt to leap over the gap and fix rope to the far side for others to cross, failure on the leap would send them into the depths where they would have to climb back out at some location or another.  There could be a narrow ledge in a similar fashion somewhere that requires a dexterous person to shimmy along the wall to the other side, again requiring rope to set up means for less dexterous to cross.  Toss in a few range wielding foes on the platforms to hinder advancement, perhaps even have some platforms players cannot access, but with a door that can open via triggers to allow more archers to rush out to fire upon the invading PC's even after they believe them to be cleared.

Morninglord Crypts - A section of the crypts down deep that is still sanctified,  A hidden door preventing access to any that does not hold an amulet of the morninglord(the cheap ones without magical properties)  Players can enter to rest and recoup, however.... the dark forces at work can sense them entering and begin to arrive near the hidden entrance in numbers to ambush them when they leave.  The chamber could have some small boon to players within, perhaps a priest who would offer a few enchantments in exchange for some supplies(bandages/food/coin etc).  He refuses to leave while the area is yet protected so he may continue to recharge the wards and look for a way to end the threat.

Sullen Woods - Shadows killed near a Shadowood tree could empower the tree, awakening a Dark Ent who possesses some of the properties of the Shadows themselves.  It could require a certain number of CR levels to actually happen.

Reavers Lair Beneath Blaustein - Have a few ghostly NPC's, victims of the Hag, Initially non-hostile, give them a conversation(random) where PC's can seek to recover an item they treasured in life likely still on their corpse.  Returning the item to the ghost puts it at res(and grants a small xp reward)t, however some ghosts merely become enraged and attack when approached, possibly wailing and drawing attention of more Reavers from the nearby waters.

This guys has it nailed down.

Complex problem solving vaults/locks are far superior to any sort of magic/roll based/picking/crowbaring lock. I would love more of this so i can but out the indiana jones theme while i play.

Stat rolling events are always great like in devergehiem when the rocks fall but implementing them for crossing to an area or getting further in the dungeon and consequences for failure are amazing.

Hidden door in the ML crypts. love it but instead of a priest could it be the spirit of a fallen morninglordian PC. Like Soren Nexus (but not actully soren nexus he has his own special thing) There is a gravestone out back for a fallen ML paladin but i cant quite recall his name at this point in time.

Haunted places with mini quest spirits is great maybe not for blaustien but for the haunted tavern on old slavich road to let the lower level PC's get some more atmospheric based quests.

[BahamutZ3RO]

I'd like to see much higher DCs on all locks outside of Vallaki. Rogues should become a necessity again, and those Rogues should have to maintain a kit of lockpicking equipment to stay viable.

[Old Nights Caress]

Blood Sacrifice -

This could be in any of numerous places around the server, though would be fitting the Terg Crypts if nothing else...

A chamber that cannot be opened by conventional means, however an alter set for sacrifices, designed to pool the blood and transport it to the chamber beyond.  If a PC is 'sacrificed' (via a series of negative health drains, potentially killing the PC outright rather than dropping them into negatives where they can be saved by allies) their blood reviving an ancient vampire inside the chamber.  The Vamp would then open the door from the inside allowing PC's to confront it and gain access to its hoard if they manage to defeat it.  

There could be several of these within the crypts, each with a random 'boss' spawn inside so players have no clue what specific battle plans they should prepare for, since some might be magic wielding, while others are simply nigh unstoppable tanks




Scrag Lair/Swamps - Putrid water sources causing varied disease effects to those who enter them or pass near enough to such.  Weakening those who are infected.  Drops in stats caused by the diseases would effect damage output, hp levels, and perhaps cause some mental weakness that lowers the available spells to casters, all generating uncertainty in how well they can prepare for the journey ahead




heading out for work shortly, will consider other ideas and post later

[Juice]

Blood Sacrifice -

This could be in any of numerous places around the server, though would be fitting the Terg Crypts if nothing else...

A chamber that cannot be opened by conventional means, however an alter set for sacrifices, designed to pool the blood and transport it to the chamber beyond.  If a PC is 'sacrificed' (via a series of negative health drains, potentially killing the PC outright rather than dropping them into negatives where they can be saved by allies) their blood reviving an ancient vampire inside the chamber.  The Vamp would then open the door from the inside allowing PC's to confront it and gain access to its hoard if they manage to defeat it.  

There could be several of these within the crypts, each with a random 'boss' spawn inside so players have no clue what specific battle plans they should prepare for, since some might be magic wielding, while others are simply nigh unstoppable tanks

Scrag Lair/Swamps - Putrid water sources causing varied disease effects to those who enter them or pass near enough to such.  Weakening those who are infected.  Drops in stats caused by the diseases would effect damage output, hp levels, and perhaps cause some mental weakness that lowers the available spells to casters, all generating uncertainty in how well they can prepare for the journey ahead

heading out for work shortly, will consider other ideas and post later

Only have one problem with the top post and having a vampire open the door is a bit odd, doesnt seem right RPly. BUT if a blood sacrifice type area was on Lyssnga Hill somewhere were this an evil cult or warlocks and witches.

and the putrid water is great.


What im seeing is alot of these "mechanics" and ideas have already been put in place, its just they stop once you leave vallaki. considering vallaki is like the tutorial level it makes alot of sense that later on in the game the same things you face at the start come up again at higher levels just harder.

[Badelaire]

What's being suggested is a lot like the sort of dungeons implemented on CoA and EfU where a series of obstacles with various triggers that effect the outcome of them have to be overcome other than just mobs and mobs of monsters and class balance was key or there was an overall theme to approaching a certain problem. The revamped Elketh's Tower and the Neureni tombs were always the most interesting in this way but quite a few dungeons we have on PotM are just tough slogs through bands of monsters to get to the loot.

[Tyras]

I like the putrid water idea, and would welcome more environmental effects in dungeons.  A heat tick in the fire cave/forest in Hazlan and the Fire Snake areas at the Oasis in Har'Akir.  Cold ticks in the ice caves and silver mine in the mountains.

Some dungeons related to some of our supported factions would be cool.  Like a dungeon where the Nerull temple was before it was destroyed.  The evil lingers there and people looking to steal what treasures were buried, seeking verification of the deaths of cultist members, or curious about the cult have dug through the rubble and exposed the temple, and a series of rooms and passages beneath.

An old Ezerite inquisitor's base that has fallen from memory and into ruin, haunted by those who died by the confessioner's blade.

Gundarakite smuggler tunnels with hostile (except to the Rebel faction) smugglers with all sorts of traps and pitfalls and cave ins.

An old pottter's field where the prisoners of the Garda were buried before the charnal house was built/taken over that holds secrets many of the criminals or wrongly accused took to the grave and beyond.

Factions may be keen to keep people away, or to hide the existance of such places.

[dutchy]

more lore in most dungeons why it's there whats the story behind them would be a great supplement as well.

not saying every lore sign has to give xp, but it would be nice if there where more lore oriented things on the server.