Author Topic: 1650 Gothic earth limit  (Read 11638 times)

Budly

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2013, 01:39:22 PM »
That would be pretty damn interesting to make a monk (Cleric) who believe God took him to the Core and now given him powers to heal the wounds of the dying. A bit like Jesus, a new prophet in a new world in need of help.

But you can't. Monk's can't cross class with anything unless its an prestige class. And even then most of the prestige classes aren't really useful for monks rp wise or combat wise unless perhaps you are making a shadow dancer or assassin I imagine. It would be nice to see a modified form of harper one day, but any type of altered prestige class or any new class in general would require a ton of effort and new haks.

I don't think that's what Budly wants. He's talking about a monk as a monastic cleric (-> friar), rather than the actual D&D monk class.

[/quote]

Yes! Im talking about the monastery system which anyone can/could enter :)

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2013, 08:54:06 AM »
That would be pretty damn interesting to make a monk (Cleric) who believe God took him to the Core and now given him powers to heal the wounds of the dying. A bit like Jesus, a new prophet in a new world in need of help.

But you can't. Monk's can't cross class with anything unless its an prestige class. And even then most of the prestige classes aren't really useful for monks rp wise or combat wise unless perhaps you are making a shadow dancer or assassin I imagine. It would be nice to see a modified form of harper one day, but any type of altered prestige class or any new class in general would require a ton of effort and new haks.

I don't think that's what Budly wants. He's talking about a monk as a monastic cleric (-> friar), rather than the actual D&D monk class.


Yes! Im talking about the monastery system which anyone can/could enter :)
[/quote]

Isn't that pretty much the ml faction though?

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2013, 11:45:03 AM »
Quote from: Budly
That would be pretty damn interesting to make a monk (Cleric) who believe God took him to the Core and now given him powers to heal the wounds of the dying. A bit like Jesus, a new prophet in a new world in need of help.

But you can't. Monk's can't cross class with anything unless its an prestige class. And even then most of the prestige classes aren't really useful for monks rp wise or combat wise unless perhaps you are making a shadow dancer or assassin I imagine. It would be nice to see a modified form of harper one day, but any type of altered prestige class or any new class in general would require a ton of effort and new haks.

I don't think that's what Budly wants. He's talking about a monk as a monastic cleric (-> friar), rather than the actual D&D monk class.


Yes! Im talking about the monastery system which anyone can/could enter :)

Isn't that pretty much the ml faction though?
No. The Cult of the Morninglord is not a bunch of cloistered priests in a monastery.

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Arn

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2023, 11:54:22 AM »
Thread necromancy is best necromancy.


Monks from the Gothic Earth would be Buddhists from India, China, Japan, and other parts of eastern Asia.

I agree. I also believe that Buddhist monks from India would be far less likely to have the kind of kung-fu martial arts training that characterize D&D monks. I can only assume that D&D monk mechanics are the way they are because of the kung-fu fad of the 1970s and 1980s.

It's worth noting that early Buddhist teachings had no martial roots, even though the Buddha is said to have come from India's Kshatriya military caste. Under the Patimokkha (their code of conduct), Buddhist monks who knowingly deprive a human being of life commit a "parajika" offense and are not considered monks anymore. Ṭhānissaro, The Buddhist Monastic Code Volume I, pages 102-120. It's also an offense to strike someone out of anger (though it's not an expulsion offense). Ṭhānissaro, The Buddhist Monastic Code Volume I, page 158.

As far as I can tell, it was only in later centuries, after Buddhism migrated to China and Japan, that Buddhist monks picked up any martial practices.

Good thing PotM has subdual damage!  :lol:
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JustMonika

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2023, 11:58:13 AM »
... Ten years?

Why?

Arn

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2023, 02:08:12 PM »
... Ten years?

Why?

I was looking up stuff about Gothic Earth (where the setting is from, the 1650 A.D. limit, etc.) and saw this old discussion about monks. And I love monk RP. :3

Also, my wizard recently hit level 17 and I want to practice Ninth Circle necromancy.  :D
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Cyber Viking

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2023, 03:29:42 PM »
It isn't just about technology, though. The old medieval social structure went away, along with nearly all of the traditional D&D character classes. Fighters and monks might still be around, but barbarians, paladins and rangers would be relics of the past. The Red Death's corruption of magic made it very dangerous to use at this point, so all magic-using classes (arcane or divine) would be extremely rare/non-existent. In their place came the more generic classes of D20 Modern.

And yet... there're still 21st century ideals in PoTM. Bring back slavery, bring back rasist barovians, bring back bigots who lynch same sex partners.

Eer mah Gerd Immersion broke long ago.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2023, 03:32:12 PM by Cyber Viking »


zDark Shadowz

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2023, 05:00:59 PM »
Dont need slavery, we have necromancy.

Cyber Viking

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2023, 05:15:33 PM »
Dont need slavery, we have necromancy.

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of clover and thistle

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2023, 08:42:26 PM »
It isn't just about technology, though. The old medieval social structure went away, along with nearly all of the traditional D&D character classes. Fighters and monks might still be around, but barbarians, paladins and rangers would be relics of the past. The Red Death's corruption of magic made it very dangerous to use at this point, so all magic-using classes (arcane or divine) would be extremely rare/non-existent. In their place came the more generic classes of D20 Modern.

And yet... there're still 21st century ideals in PoTM. Bring back slavery, bring back rasist barovians, bring back bigots who lynch same sex partners.

Eer mah Gerd Immersion broke long ago.


*Edit.

Okay. I'll be productive.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be sarcastic or not. But never the less. Ravenloft is a Fantasy setting. the bigotry and discrimination that takes place in the setting reflects the Gothic Horror setting and serves a purpose for making that Gothic Horror Element.

Hazlan already has slavery, represented by the subjugation of the Rashemi. Barovia is already extremely xenophobic and skeptical of magic. Port-a-Lucine has class struggles and marriage/love influenced by the political and social conventions.

The important distinction with bigotry and discrimination in fantasy settings is that it does not replicate/repeat patterns/behaviours/codes/signals of real life hate speech and discrimination. That's the important line that keeps fantasy social baggage fantasy and character/story focused.

Furthermore, Gothic Horror is kind of like. The best genre for exploring social issues. There's lots of papers already about how monsters in Victorian and Restoration writings emulate queer struggle. Not to mention how Gothic Horror tends to dress up different social issues in the lens of monsters and spooks as creative ways of exploring these issues without actually approaching the difficult subjects in direct case studies.

The whole 'muh immersion' broke is, idk. We're replicating literature genres and stories. Fantasy. Not real-life politics. Making these RL issues replicated IC as some kind of setting flavour would just be bringing modern social politics into a fantasy setting. Which would be more immersion breaking and pretty uncomfy for a lot of people.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2023, 08:51:00 PM by of clover and thistle »
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Cyber Viking

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2023, 11:46:02 PM »
It isn't just about technology, though. The old medieval social structure went away, along with nearly all of the traditional D&D character classes. Fighters and monks might still be around, but barbarians, paladins and rangers would be relics of the past. The Red Death's corruption of magic made it very dangerous to use at this point, so all magic-using classes (arcane or divine) would be extremely rare/non-existent. In their place came the more generic classes of D20 Modern.

And yet... there're still 21st century ideals in PoTM. Bring back slavery, bring back rasist barovians, bring back bigots who lynch same sex partners.

Eer mah Gerd Immersion broke long ago.


*Edit.

Okay. I'll be productive.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be sarcastic or not. But never the less. Ravenloft is a Fantasy setting. the bigotry and discrimination that takes place in the setting reflects the Gothic Horror setting and serves a purpose for making that Gothic Horror Element.

Hazlan already has slavery, represented by the subjugation of the Rashemi. Barovia is already extremely xenophobic and skeptical of magic. Port-a-Lucine has class struggles and marriage/love influenced by the political and social conventions.

The important distinction with bigotry and discrimination in fantasy settings is that it does not replicate/repeat patterns/behaviours/codes/signals of real life hate speech and discrimination. That's the important line that keeps fantasy social baggage fantasy and character/story focused.

Furthermore, Gothic Horror is kind of like. The best genre for exploring social issues. There's lots of papers already about how monsters in Victorian and Restoration writings emulate queer struggle. Not to mention how Gothic Horror tends to dress up different social issues in the lens of monsters and spooks as creative ways of exploring these issues without actually approaching the difficult subjects in direct case studies.

The whole 'muh immersion' broke is, idk. We're replicating literature genres and stories. Fantasy. Not real-life politics. Making these RL issues replicated IC as some kind of setting flavour would just be bringing modern social politics into a fantasy setting. Which would be more immersion breaking and pretty uncomfy for a lot of people.

Take it as sarcasim with hints of truth.
What you said was correct.
I particularly liked this:
Quote
We're replicating literature genres and stories. Fantasy. Not real-life politics. Making these RL issues replicated IC as some kind of setting flavour would just be bringing modern social politics into a fantasy setting. Which would be more immersion breaking and pretty uncomfy for a lot of people.


Cody

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2023, 12:12:47 AM »
From the FAQ section:


 :?: What is Gothic Earth

 :arrow: Gothic Earth is the name for the masque of the red death setting. It is set in the real world. One can come from any time period before the year 1650.

:?: Why 1650

I agree. It should be lowered to the best era before everything went to hell. 500 AD.

Profezzor_Darke

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2023, 06:40:21 AM »
I agree. It should be lowered to the best era before everything went to hell. 500 AD.

It's Common Era now. But even 500 CE is a mistake. Return to Monke. GE characters have to be primates.

Also can someone please lock this thread?

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Abear

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2023, 12:57:43 PM »
I think 1650 AD is a pretty good cutoff, since some of the nations in Ravenloft have similar technology and culture to that time period.
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Lion El'Jonson

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2023, 03:13:05 PM »
Agreed, 1650 AD is fine

JustMonika

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2023, 03:56:36 PM »
I wanted 1830. :(

Wilkins1952

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2023, 04:00:59 PM »
I wanted 1830. :(

Same  "Beerhouse Act 1830 liberalises regulations on the brewing and sale of beer by individuals."
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apeppertoo

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2023, 04:02:10 PM »
On the one hand I want cowboys, on the other I don't want steam power or trains.
Mariah Parsons

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2023, 04:29:32 PM »
I'd kill for 1830 cut off, all the fun stuff happens after 1700 for me.

Plus it's not like someones going to just fall into Ravenloft and invent the industrial revolution- Dementlieu is already kind of doing that anyway.

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caprea

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2023, 09:42:30 PM »
I agree. It should be lowered to the best era before everything went to hell. 500 AD.

It's Common Era now. But even 500 CE is a mistake. Return to Monke. GE characters have to be primates.

Also can someone please lock this thread?


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Redcap

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2023, 10:49:49 AM »
I read a lot of litrpg, this setting is perfect for a Modern day Isekai story. Like others have said you aren't going to recreate the industrial revolution, do many of us even know how to create the tools we would even need to get the tools we need to get to modern tech?

BraveSirRobin

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2023, 08:12:14 PM »
It isn't just about technology, though. The old medieval social structure went away, along with nearly all of the traditional D&D character classes. Fighters and monks might still be around, but barbarians, paladins and rangers would be relics of the past. The Red Death's corruption of magic made it very dangerous to use at this point, so all magic-using classes (arcane or divine) would be extremely rare/non-existent. In their place came the more generic classes of D20 Modern.

And yet... there're still 21st century ideals in PoTM. Bring back slavery, bring back rasist barovians, bring back bigots who lynch same sex partners.

Eer mah Gerd Immersion broke long ago.


*Edit.

Okay. I'll be productive.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be sarcastic or not. But never the less. Ravenloft is a Fantasy setting. the bigotry and discrimination that takes place in the setting reflects the Gothic Horror setting and serves a purpose for making that Gothic Horror Element.

Hazlan already has slavery, represented by the subjugation of the Rashemi. Barovia is already extremely xenophobic and skeptical of magic. Port-a-Lucine has class struggles and marriage/love influenced by the political and social conventions.

The important distinction with bigotry and discrimination in fantasy settings is that it does not replicate/repeat patterns/behaviours/codes/signals of real life hate speech and discrimination. That's the important line that keeps fantasy social baggage fantasy and character/story focused.

Furthermore, Gothic Horror is kind of like. The best genre for exploring social issues. There's lots of papers already about how monsters in Victorian and Restoration writings emulate queer struggle. Not to mention how Gothic Horror tends to dress up different social issues in the lens of monsters and spooks as creative ways of exploring these issues without actually approaching the difficult subjects in direct case studies.

The whole 'muh immersion' broke is, idk. We're replicating literature genres and stories. Fantasy. Not real-life politics. Making these RL issues replicated IC as some kind of setting flavour would just be bringing modern social politics into a fantasy setting. Which would be more immersion breaking and pretty uncomfy for a lot of people.

I think it's pretty important to point out that Gothic Horror As a Genre is a very specific subset of Western literature that operates from a Judeo-Christian point of view, but uses euphemisms to avoid directly stating the unspeakable of the era. One of the books in question which does have homosexual themes to it would be A Picture of Dorian Gray, for which the explicit homoerotica saw the writer of the era imprisoned, and ruined the main character of the book (as well as his gay lover) as a cautionary tale of morality. While one could explore social issues, it's important to remember that the bedrock of the genre is distinctly geared towards creating tragedy as a result of man's vice and the unyielding social restrictions of their respective eras.

I'm not sure I'd advocate for someone who is close to the wire on the subject IRL to use Ravenloft as a platform for exploring these subjects and especially not more modernized social issues for which there are no references in Gothic Literature for, it seems an issue keyed for disaster.


That being said, I think we could safely argue that for the sake of diversity of setting and roleplay, that the technology and social structure of some of Ravenloft's domains extends beyond 1650, and I think one could safely go as far as the end of the 18th Century, as that's about where Dementlieu seems to lie in terms of the server representation of it, where old aristocratic systems and character archetypes can still exist, but haven't given away to the full industrialization and technologal overlap of the 19th Century. At the end of the 18th ( I.E., 1799) flintlocks, muskets, and literature is still entirely on par with Ravenloft's domains such as Lamordia and Dementlieu.

Leviellus

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2023, 12:22:19 AM »
Why necro an 8 month old thread dog
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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2023, 10:58:58 AM »
Why necro an 8 month old thread dog

It's still relevant?

slash

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Re: 1650 Gothic earth limit
« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2023, 01:33:44 PM »
The Forgotten Realm Monks aren't all Eastern as far as I know. For example the Lathander Monk Order isn't. I think there is a Halfling order of monks as well. I could be wrong heh.

Edit: Also, in legends like Robin Hood, which was a European legend Monks existed, though they were noted as Friars.

Most Forgotten Realms monks are of the Monk class, so yes.  They are not all eastern themed either.

See: Order of the Long Death, or that one Halfling order.
This isn't about the Forgotten Realms, so that's irrelevant. The D&D monk class is based on Buddhist ascetic monks who train their bodies with martial arts such as kung-fu. This is why all monks have a "ki" power (such as ki fist). Ki is an eastern concept ("ki" is the Japanese word for it; it is called "chi" in China and "chakra" in India) of harnessing spiritual energy into physical power. While some other D&D settings like Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms have "westernized" the class to make it more accessible, that is not true of the Gothic Earth.

Monks from the Gothic Earth would be Buddhists from India, China, Japan, and other parts of eastern Asia.

Christian monks (like Friar Tuck) have nothing in common with the D&D monk class.

Not to be pedantic and all, but chakras are are more like swirling pools of chi in the body - in India the term used is Prana.
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