Author Topic: Drugs of Ravenloft  (Read 10765 times)

Oscar_Swindler

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Drugs of Ravenloft
« on: December 05, 2013, 05:04:28 PM »
I will venture a guess that Ravenloft, being a dark fantasy setting, allows for darker habits like substance abuse to be RPed. Can anyone clarify for me what are the rules for playing an addict on this server (assuming there are any special rules), and what drugs exist in the game world? Are there any drugs actually implemented, that an addicted character would have to actively seek out and consume, or could i just emote using drugs?

Telkar

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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2013, 05:10:13 PM »
I'm not aware of any rules for them. I know at least Opium is an actual implemented and usable item.

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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2013, 05:52:58 PM »
As are a few other things such as Glass. The Drain's got your hookup ;)

Oscar_Swindler

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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2013, 08:18:18 AM »
Thanks guys. Could anyone tell me about the mechanics of addiction? Like, does a character have to take a drug frequently over a period of time to get addicted, after which there are repercussions (like ability score damage, for example) if he doesn't get high in a few days?

Feronius

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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2013, 08:28:51 AM »
Thanks guys. Could anyone tell me about the mechanics of addiction? Like, does a character have to take a drug frequently over a period of time to get addicted, after which there are repercussions (like ability score damage, for example) if he doesn't get high in a few days?

I think it's the same as for alcohol, some drugs exist as consumeables, but the effect to your stats is only very temporary. Wears off in a few hours or by resting once.
So in the end it comes down to you as a player to portray it in a realistic manner, going by the game mechanics alone would make for a rather shallow experience.
(It would take an immense amount of scripting to implement addictions in such a way mechanically. Or a DM to personally oversee every addicted character's stats.)

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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2013, 09:35:00 AM »
Yeah. I know it actually says in Glass's description that there's an RP DC check against addiction on it. So it's up to the player to play it out responsibly.

Badelaire

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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2013, 01:16:45 PM »
Opium, laudanum and absinthe addiction are some of the most commonly occurring in Gothic Horror literature.

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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2013, 01:33:11 PM »
Laudanum is a form of opium. Absinthe is a liquor/hallucinagin
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Elfric

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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2013, 01:38:25 PM »
Laudanum is a form of opium. Absinthe is a liquor/hallucinagin
 

Absinthe isn't a hallucinogen nor a  liquor. It's simply a highly potent spirit and giving Ravenloft real world bases, the drink would be commonly  known as a Lamordian spirit.
Yet booze are an addictive substance, remember to drink responsibly!

Coffee is another addictive substance in Ravenloft. [I can quit any time I want].
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 01:46:48 PM by Elfric »

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Badelaire

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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2013, 01:48:36 PM »
Laudanum is a form of opium. Absinthe is a liquor/hallucinagin

Alcohol is also a type of drug and absinthe addiction features heavily in many many Gothic Horror works, popularized in such titles as Bram Stoker's Dracula (which also featured morphine addiction) and From Hell. They didn't have meth labs to cook up rocks back then (The Lamordians probably would, can't trust those guys to leave anything alone) and narcotic use was mainly limited to various tinctures and naturally occurring chemical and plant compounds that would have been also applied medicinally.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 01:59:54 PM by Badelaire »

Dread

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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2013, 05:32:50 PM »
From what I understand, absinthe comes from Richemulot, not Lamordia, at least that's where Nightlyre purchased his stuff from!

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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2013, 06:20:18 PM »
From what I understand, absinthe comes from Richemulot, not Lamordia, at least that's where Nightlyre purchased his stuff from!
I normally go off of real world substitutes. Absinthe from my knowledge is a Swiss product.

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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2013, 12:48:05 PM »
Dunno if anyone posted this, but Opium is sold in the shadyness of Port due to it being illegal. The only real issue with it is due to some people portaiying it similar to weed. It's not, these are the effects..

Quote
  Effects of Opium
    Euphoria
    sense of emotional detachment
    absence of pain and stress
    altered mood and mental processes
    sleepiness
    vomiting
    loss of appetite
    reduced sex drive
    itchy skin
    increased urination
    sweating
    inability to concentrate
    impaired vision
    death

...Enjoy your highly addictive substance, which you can become cripplingly depended on. The stuff is crack cocaine before crack cocaine.

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Dread

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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2013, 12:59:52 PM »
Yeah. One does not just take a hit of opium and then go on about their day. They're out for the count. This is the stuff that heroin is made from, along with morphine and codeine. It'll knock your ass out.

I've always wondered what the explanation is for opium being illegal, incidentally. Not that I'm against it being treated as an illicit substance in both Barovia and in Dementlieu as it is now, but such a viewpoint is really quite anachronistic - the U.S. didn't ban the widespread sale of opium until 1905.


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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2013, 01:03:55 PM »
I've always wondered what the explanation is for opium being illegal, incidentally. Not that I'm against it being treated as an illicit substance in both Barovia and in Dementlieu as it is now, but such a viewpoint is really quite anachronistic - the U.S. didn't ban the widespread sale of opium until 1905.



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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2013, 03:01:35 PM »
From what I understand, absinthe comes from Richemulot, not Lamordia, at least that's where Nightlyre purchased his stuff from!
I normally go off of real world substitutes. Absinthe from my knowledge is a Swiss product.

Absinthe  was first brewed Switzerland, but was mainly produced and drank in France during its heyday. So, Richemulot being a place where it's most popular and most heavily produced would make sense. It could also be a drink of fashion in Dementlieu.

Artists and nobles becoming major alcoholics from drinking too much absinthe and suffering various terrible maladies (blindness, insanity etc. etc.) from poorly distillied alcohol (just like in the good ol' days) and the like would be really neat to see on the server.
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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2013, 03:13:30 PM »
I've always wondered what the explanation is for opium being illegal, incidentally. Not that I'm against it being treated as an illicit substance in both Barovia and in Dementlieu as it is now, but such a viewpoint is really quite anachronistic - the U.S. didn't ban the widespread sale of opium until 1905.



Dark Lords don't want their peasants lying around smoking opium all day!
Right, that's the explanation we used for Barovia, anyway. Strahd demands productivity from his subjects and opium prevents that, so he banned it.

In Nova Vaasa it's a combination of the nobility demanding productivity and the Church of Bane the Lawgiver declaring it sinful.

It's perfectly legal in Hazlan...for the Mulan. Rashemi peasants are prohibited from using it because they're supposed to be productive.

I don't remember why we made it illegal in Dementlieu.

But as far as its illegality being "anachronistic", so what? This whole setting is an anachronism stew and is not even supposed to pretend to be historically accurate. As 3rd edition Ravenloft writer John Mangrum put it:

Quote from: Mangrum
Feel a need for a quick reminder that the "historical period" Ravenloft is based on is "Universal/Hammer Studios Backlot." It's an artificial world, within the context of a fictional fantasy universe, anchored in a genre noted for its apathy toward anything more than the trappings of history, written at the turn of the 21st century for a PG-13 audience of that era.

So if making opium illegal presents the right mood and atmosphere, we'll do that, historical accuracy be damned. Which Soren said about a year ago on this very topic:

I salute the intend of the original post, even if we should consider the real world history only as inspirational. Authenticity can be enriching the details and often - eye opening. There's more to this place than adhering to the official Ravenloft franchise, and we should always be open to the discussion of and reflection upon what is.

That said, we need to be on the same terms and there, canon is generally the outset. There are - as have been argued - several reasons why opium would be illegal in certain domains - but in fact I feel the overarching reasoning is due to atmospheric considerations. Opium dens in a xenophobic, narrow-minded and backward society such as Barovia should be something alien and strange - and thus, if occuring at all, shady and held in secrecy. The prohibition facilitates that and as long as there's also a concise IC reasoning, I see no persuasive reasoning for changing that aspect.

But again, I salute the intend of the topic - and it has certainly widened my view on how to understand the role of opium in these early days of it's use. For that alone (provided it has had that effect upon others than just me), it is worthwhile bringing it up.

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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2013, 06:55:41 PM »
Frankly, I find this entire topic to be so fundamentally infused with modernistic concepts that it annoys me to even broach it, but here goes. (And yes, sure, the setting is a horror-garage-pastiche. Okay. Still going to point out where it doesn't make sense.)

Would average Barovians even be able to afford opium? Opium was not an everyman's drug[1] until it was mass produced in India by the British (who then went on to wage a few wars to force China to open their markets to this cheap opium; not our most edifying moment in history). The point is that in China, where it was consumed as a narcotic and smoked, it didn't become a problem until it was cheap -- and it didn't become cheap until the British brought post-Renaissance entrepreneurialism and modern farming techniques into the picture. In short, it wasn't a major concern for the Chinese authorities because until then the average peasant simply couldn't afford the stuff. It was a pass time of bored nobles, and if a few bored nobles decided to slowly kill themselves with opium in Barovia, I think Strahd would see that as a tidy way of keeping them from plotting behind his back...

In summary, why is opium even a problem that is deemed addressing in most cases? Is the Hazlani opium trade really that aggressive?

I mean, if Strahd is that puritanical, he ought to be banning things like wine and tsuika  -- I am sure those have a far greater impact on his peasants' productivity than expensive exotic drugs.
 1. And even then, it was more of a metropolitan problem, i.e. in big cities like Shanghai or London.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 06:58:13 PM by aprogressivist »
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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2013, 09:01:03 PM »
Frankly, I find this entire topic to be so fundamentally infused with modernistic concepts that it annoys me to even broach it, but here goes. (And yes, sure, the setting is a horror-garage-pastiche. Okay. Still going to point out where it doesn't make sense.)

Would average Barovians even be able to afford opium? Opium was not an everyman's drug[1] until it was mass produced in India by the British (who then went on to wage a few wars to force China to open their markets to this cheap opium; not our most edifying moment in history). The point is that in China, where it was consumed as a narcotic and smoked, it didn't become a problem until it was cheap -- and it didn't become cheap until the British brought post-Renaissance entrepreneurialism and modern farming techniques into the picture. In short, it wasn't a major concern for the Chinese authorities because until then the average peasant simply couldn't afford the stuff. It was a pass time of bored nobles, and if a few bored nobles decided to slowly kill themselves with opium in Barovia, I think Strahd would see that as a tidy way of keeping them from plotting behind his back...

In summary, why is opium even a problem that is deemed addressing in most cases? Is the Hazlani opium trade really that aggressive?

I mean, if Strahd is that puritanical, he ought to be banning things like wine and tsuika  -- I am sure those have a far greater impact on his peasants' productivity than expensive exotic drugs.
 1. And even then, it was more of a metropolitan problem, i.e. in big cities like Shanghai or London.

Actually most of this is true, however China had opium use that started around the 15th century and before that back to the stone age it was used by a doctor. what the British did is mix it with tobacco and made it much more available and popular because you could smoke it rather then ingest it. This is what caused the masses to use it more often and become addictive to such.


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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2013, 11:10:35 PM »
Frankly, I find this entire topic to be so fundamentally infused with modernistic concepts that it annoys me to even broach it, but here goes. (And yes, sure, the setting is a horror-garage-pastiche. Okay. Still going to point out where it doesn't make sense.)

Would average Barovians even be able to afford opium? Opium was not an everyman's drug[1] until it was mass produced in India by the British (who then went on to wage a few wars to force China to open their markets to this cheap opium; not our most edifying moment in history). The point is that in China, where it was consumed as a narcotic and smoked, it didn't become a problem until it was cheap -- and it didn't become cheap until the British brought post-Renaissance entrepreneurialism and modern farming techniques into the picture. In short, it wasn't a major concern for the Chinese authorities because until then the average peasant simply couldn't afford the stuff. It was a pass time of bored nobles, and if a few bored nobles decided to slowly kill themselves with opium in Barovia, I think Strahd would see that as a tidy way of keeping them from plotting behind his back...

In summary, why is opium even a problem that is deemed addressing in most cases? Is the Hazlani opium trade really that aggressive?

I mean, if Strahd is that puritanical, he ought to be banning things like wine and tsuika  -- I am sure those have a far greater impact on his peasants' productivity than expensive exotic drugs.
 1. And even then, it was more of a metropolitan problem, i.e. in big cities like Shanghai or London.

Actually most of this is true, however China had opium use that started around the 15th century and before that back to the stone age it was used by a doctor. what the British did is mix it with tobacco and made it much more available and popular because you could smoke it rather then ingest it. This is what caused the masses to use it more often and become addictive to such.
Avatar is right. Opium was used by the ancient Romans even as a soporific in their healing temples if you go further back, while the Islamic nations did have use for it as an anesthetic even before the 15th century.  I mean, in regards to the opium use in our medical history throughout several civilizations. The Mayans and Incans chewed several narcotic leaves for energy and to combat height sickness in the mountainous regions, just as an example.   
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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2013, 11:25:51 PM »
Hey, all that matters is, if you want it, come to the Drain, we've got it. :D

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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2013, 11:54:14 PM »
Frankly, I find this entire topic to be so fundamentally infused with modernistic concepts that it annoys me to even broach it, but here goes. (And yes, sure, the setting is a horror-garage-pastiche. Okay. Still going to point out where it doesn't make sense.)

Would average Barovians even be able to afford opium? Opium was not an everyman's drug until it was mass produced in India by the British (who then went on to wage a few wars to force China to open their markets to this cheap opium; not our most edifying moment in history). The point is that in China, where it was consumed as a narcotic and smoked, it didn't become a problem until it was cheap -- and it didn't become cheap until the British brought post-Renaissance entrepreneurialism and modern farming techniques into the picture. In short, it wasn't a major concern for the Chinese authorities because until then the average peasant simply couldn't afford the stuff. It was a pass time of bored nobles, and if a few bored nobles decided to slowly kill themselves with opium in Barovia, I think Strahd would see that as a tidy way of keeping them from plotting behind his back...

In summary, why is opium even a problem that is deemed addressing in most cases? Is the Hazlani opium trade really that aggressive?

I mean, if Strahd is that puritanical, he ought to be banning things like wine and tsuika  -- I am sure those have a far greater impact on his peasants' productivity than expensive exotic drugs.
Strahd isn't puritanical. He demands productivity from his subjects. Opium is a hell of a lot stronger than wine or brandy.

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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2013, 03:03:37 AM »
Where's the OG kush? Oh wait. I think I jumped ahead a thousand or so years.
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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2013, 04:27:55 AM »
Strahd isn't puritanical. He demands productivity from his subjects. Opium is a hell of a lot stronger than wine or brandy.

You're missing the point, which is that Strahd'd intervention is a reaction without an action. To Strahd, opium would not have been seen as a narcotic, but a rare and expensive medicine. Unless at some point there was a major push by the Hazlani to dump cheap opium in Barovia -- something which would have left a lasting and indelible mark -- his reaction is akin to banning silk wearing for peasants in case it gave them ideas above their station -- as if most peasants can even afford it!

Simply put, what would even bring Strahd to condescend to caring about the opium trade when it was only ever the pass time of those few bored nobles that could afford it?
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Re: Drugs of Ravenloft
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2013, 05:18:35 AM »
420 blaze it. Also don't forget drugs with no real-life parallel. One example I remember is the Falkovnian Abfalduz Vine and it's more refined drug, Sleepglass. Dunno if Glass is just the nickname for Sleepglass, but there's bound to be a few other interesting drugs floating around out there. I've seen a couple of other servers with a surprisingly well-developed list of drugs and their side-effects, not to mention extremely amusing or horrific RP effects. I was particularly fond of throwing pouches of mushroom dust into people's faces to escape, then a week later they're begging me for another hit. Filthy Kenku master race.

I've heard a few rumours of other drugs on Ravenloft, but besides what's been listed in the thread no others come to mind. Whether that's because they just aren't all that common, or because they're meant to be kept secret, I got no clue. So I guess the best way to find out is to immerse yourself in Ravenloft's drug culture in a totally productive way. Go nuts, sample everything! It'll end well, really.