Redundant items discussion

[queenofspades]

Ok, firstly, this thread is not about items that are perceived as useless but instead items that are duplicated in all but the name and description.

Masterwork Sling
+1 Attack Bonus
Material: Leather
Quality: Masterwork

Sure Shot (I am 99% sure of the name, but I did not write it down.)
+1 Attack Bonus
Material: Leather

Essentially, the sure shot is a masterwork sling. So it would be sensible to either remove it or to simply add some minor features to make it different, somewhat like the darkness ranger's sling with its additional reflex save bonus.

Feel free to post your own suggestions or items.

[Bluebomber4evr]

I think "redundant" might be a better term, but anyway, this is a helpful topic. Please post any other examples you can find. Adjusting/tweaking loot table items is actually simple.

[Lucadia]

Scarab of protection +1
Lucky Rabbits foot. Both are +1 to universal saves.

[RedwizardD]

Scarab of protection +1
Lucky Rabbits foot. Both are +1 to universal saves.

It makes a nice difference flavor wise but they are fairly redundant. Perhaps the scarab could have some minor added effect?

[queenofspades]

Yeah, though, the rabbits foot does offer a less perceived magical bonus. Ie people like barovians or Tepestani might use one still.

[Avatar6666]

Why not have a rabbits foot give you a +1 to hit as well, suppose to be lucky.

[Bluebomber4evr]

Why not have a rabbits foot give you a +1 to hit as well, suppose to be lucky.

Because you don't attack with the rabbit's foot. AB bonuses need to be on a weapon to be of any use in the NWN engine.

[Avatar6666]

Why not have a rabbits foot give you a +1 to hit as well, suppose to be lucky.

Because you don't attack with the rabbit's foot. AB bonuses need to be on a weapon to be of any use in the NWN engine.

Ah that makes sense blue.

[Bluebomber4evr]

Why not have a rabbits foot give you a +1 to hit as well, suppose to be lucky.

Because you don't attack with the rabbit's foot. AB bonuses need to be on a weapon to be of any use in the NWN engine.

Ah that makes sense blue.

What could be done is give the property to cast a spell that raises your AB such as True Strike, but that's kind of a huge bonus.

Alternatively, I could just give the scarabs of protection an AC bonus in addition to the save bonus.

[swbf2lord]

Why not have a rabbits foot give you a +1 to hit as well, suppose to be lucky.

Because you don't attack with the rabbit's foot. AB bonuses need to be on a weapon to be of any use in the NWN engine.

Ah that makes sense blue.

What could be done is give the property to cast a spell that raises your AB such as True Strike, but that's kind of a huge bonus.

Alternatively, I could just give the scarabs of protection an AC bonus in addition to the save bonus.

+1 Deflection AC, maybe? Also the same type of AC on the Enhanced Rings of Resistance, also +1 to saves.

[Badelaire]

The ability of the scarab is as the PnP item though (well, as close as possible). Perhaps the lucky rabbit's foot should be made less inherently magical and more circumstantial? Bonus feat dodge perhaps or a specific save rather than a blanket universal?

[Bluebomber4evr]

The ability of the scarab is as the PnP item though (well, as close as possible). Perhaps the lucky rabbit's foot should be made less inherently magical and more circumstantial? Bonus feat dodge perhaps or a specific save rather than a blanket universal?

That would make it significantly less...lucky.

Maybe I'll just give one of them a slightly better bonus, by +1 or so.

[swbf2lord]

The ability of the scarab is as the PnP item though (well, as close as possible). Perhaps the lucky rabbit's foot should be made less inherently magical and more circumstantial? Bonus feat dodge perhaps or a specific save rather than a blanket universal?

That would make it significantly less...lucky.

Maybe I'll just give one of them a slightly better bonus, by +1 or so.

Assuming you mean another point to universal saves, we already have scarabs of protection +2, and, unless I'm mistaken, a scarab that gives +3.

[Norture]

Make the rabbit's foot the +1 and the scarab the +2, so we can describe what we have ICly without having to use OOC terms like how it is "plus two." The scarab would exclusively refer to the the +2.

[swbf2lord]

Make the rabbit's foot the +1 and the scarab the +2, so we can describe what we have ICly without having to use OOC terms like how it is "plus two." The scarab would exclusively refer to the the +2.

Well, you can refer to them by color. Red scarab is +2, White is supposedy +3 and, whatever the +1 is. Idr

[Feronius]

Make the rabbit's foot the +1 and the scarab the +2, so we can describe what we have ICly without having to use OOC terms like how it is "plus two." The scarab would exclusively refer to the the +2.

Well, you can refer to them by color. Red scarab is +2, White is supposedy +3 and, whatever the +1 is. Idr

I believe that scarab icon is some shade of gold. One of my characters has one of them equipped.

I would suggest staying close to the original item, the suggestion Norture makes sounds logical.
It would probably give some lucky folks a slight item upgrade for free, but nothing earth-shattering.

[Budly]

I say flavour tops being a copy statwise.

Do you people only care about stats?

[queenofspades]

For things that can have a perceived non magical copy, in the case with scarab of protection and rabbits foot, I don't really mind. Is when space in the palette is rare and things are duplicated with a description and name change that adds nothing, like the case of the mw sling and sure shot. They were effectively the same, where there is more of a difference in the foot and scarab, one is a superstitious token, the other is enchanted.

[Kendaric]

For things that can have a perceived non magical copy, in the case with scarab of protection and rabbits foot, I don't really mind. Is when space in the palette is rare and things are duplicated with a description and name change that adds nothing, like the case of the mw sling and sure shot. They were effectively the same, where there is more of a difference in the foot and scarab, one is a superstitious token, the other is enchanted.

Though the same could be said of the slings... a masterwork weapon, while "magical" in the toolset, would still be a mundane weapon, while Sure Shot is an enchanted item even though their effects are the same due to the Aurora engine.
That is one of the few things NWN 2 actually did better than NWN.

[queenofspades]

True, though I could be wrong, but the sure shot didn't explain anything about being enchantment, that's what made me bring it up. I also think people need to consider that when adding items, that it should atleast exceed the properties of a crafted or masterwork weapon before it is suggested. Otherwise you might as well have a whole separate set of items that constitute enchanted weapons as opposed to masterworks.

I once played on a server that had both mw weapons and +1 ab enchanted weapons. Thus using up precious palette space. The intent of this thread is pointing out the items that are possibly redundant and then considering changes. Thus the title discussion.

[Bluebomber4evr]

For things that can have a perceived non magical copy, in the case with scarab of protection and rabbits foot, I don't really mind. Is when space in the palette is rare and things are duplicated with a description and name change that adds nothing, like the case of the mw sling and sure shot. They were effectively the same, where there is more of a difference in the foot and scarab, one is a superstitious token, the other is enchanted.

Loot items aren't in the palette so that isn't an issue.

[queenofspades]

Really? fair enough, I thought they were.

[Bad_Bud]

You could just remove the +1 Scarab.  The other amulet chain already has flavor at each level.

Amulet of Natural Armor +1 -> Eye of Ra -> Talisman of Dodging

I think having a Lucky Rabbit's Foot as the +1 is interesting.  I don't think it needs to get any more complicated than that.

[RedwizardD]

Perhaps Amulet of Natural Armor +1 should be renamed to just Amulet of Natural Armor? Not sure if any other version appear ig

[Paragonville]

Perhaps Amulet of Natural Armor +1 should be renamed to just Amulet of Natural Armor? Not sure if any other version appear ig

+1

Or, if you want a more flavored name:

Amulet of Thick Skin
Amulet of Safety
Safeguard