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Author Topic: Enchanting Restrictions  (Read 9272 times)

Tyras

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2013, 08:13:59 PM »
Another cool aspect of item enhancement could be to have an item blessed. Say instead of a magical essence and an enchanting machine, you get some trophy from slaying some abominable undead or evil creature to bring it to an NPC priest. In return for your deeds and gods fearing nature (perhaps you have RP'd an interesting religious conversion, or you've been a devotee of the Morning Lord for a lengthy amount of time) your item is blessed by the priest. It would take the same toll on XP as enchanting, a tribute to the deity, perhaps, or giving up your soul to better serve a God. But it could be another nice way to enhance importance of enchanted weaponry and the RP that could be involved in getting one.

The idea is nice, but wouldn't that take the player crafting out of the system?  Might it lead to people doing without enchanters and simply setteling for the blessing over an enchantment because then they would no longer need a high level alchemist for the essences and an enchanter for the actual enchantment?

Personally I enjoy customization.  If the enchanting system were to offer options such as alignment, or perhaps an effect, or even having the ability to rename the item in the process rather than having to get a DM to do it would be cool.  I understand that there are also limitations that might make such things difficult or impossible to include.

From somebody who has dabbled in most crafts and mastered a few, my biggest problem with enchanting is it's difficult for me to level due to the XP hit required for attempts.  Finding victi... I mean volunteers even when I provide the essences is quite a challenge.  The other crafts are all up to the crafter.  If you put in the effort you can advance your craft.  Not so with enchanting.  The enchanter requires another to ply their trade.

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2013, 08:22:17 PM »
Another cool aspect of item enhancement could be to have an item blessed. Say instead of a magical essence and an enchanting machine, you get some trophy from slaying some abominable undead or evil creature to bring it to an NPC priest. In return for your deeds and gods fearing nature (perhaps you have RP'd an interesting religious conversion, or you've been a devotee of the Morning Lord for a lengthy amount of time) your item is blessed by the priest. It would take the same toll on XP as enchanting, a tribute to the deity, perhaps, or giving up your soul to better serve a God. But it could be another nice way to enhance importance of enchanted weaponry and the RP that could be involved in getting one.

Some DMs do give blessed items for great RP or really cool weapons for going after a big bad evil, without taking an exp hit. You can get cool stuff like this form pure RP and offering juicy story RP goodness to the DMs.
Some my be made up items for a made up DM quest like Umm Special daggers to kill a white wolf and some items will be cannon like the Holy Avenger Weapons. If the DMs think you deserve the awesome cool gear they will give it to you just as long as you have an epic story and amazing RP to go along with it. It has been done before i know of.... 2 Holy Avenger type weapons that have been given to players in game but it is a very high power item and the PLAYER needs to be very responsible with such an item.

SO i wont be seeing one anytime soon.

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High_Priestess_of_Tinsel

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2013, 08:46:38 AM »
Another cool aspect of item enhancement could be to have an item blessed. Say instead of a magical essence and an enchanting machine, you get some trophy from slaying some abominable undead or evil creature to bring it to an NPC priest. In return for your deeds and gods fearing nature (perhaps you have RP'd an interesting religious conversion, or you've been a devotee of the Morning Lord for a lengthy amount of time) your item is blessed by the priest. It would take the same toll on XP as enchanting, a tribute to the deity, perhaps, or giving up your soul to better serve a God. But it could be another nice way to enhance importance of enchanted weaponry and the RP that could be involved in getting one.

The idea is nice, but wouldn't that take the player crafting out of the system?  Might it lead to people doing without enchanters and simply setteling for the blessing over an enchantment because then they would no longer need a high level alchemist for the essences and an enchanter for the actual enchantment?



It's more of an IC option for characters with a strongly religious persuasion. There are many characters who dismiss the powers of Gods who would prefer enchanting and many who are devout and would rather choose a blessing. My character, for example, would never use that as a way to enhance an item, as it would be seen as taking the blessings of, and giving a part of her soul/devotion to a 'Ravenloft' god, which would not even be considered as a feasible possibility ICly, let alone a viable option for her, so she would enchant. She is, in fact, an enchanter already, another reason not to turn to divinity.
It's just an idea for players to rp their religious characters a little more without the need for a DM to be there to run a quest or create an item for the purpose of rewarding devotion.

Tyras

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2013, 10:30:13 AM »
It's more of an IC option for characters with a strongly religious persuasion. There are many characters who dismiss the powers of Gods who would prefer enchanting and many who are devout and would rather choose a blessing. My character, for example, would never use that as a way to enhance an item, as it would be seen as taking the blessings of, and giving a part of her soul/devotion to a 'Ravenloft' god, which would not even be considered as a feasible possibility ICly, let alone a viable option for her, so she would enchant. She is, in fact, an enchanter already, another reason not to turn to divinity.
It's just an idea for players to rp their religious characters a little more without the need for a DM to be there to run a quest or create an item for the purpose of rewarding devotion.

That is an admirable attitude to have, but without a responsible party acting as a gate keeper to such a mechanic, like a DM, to ensure that there is an RP reason for such a blessing rather than somebody who's never been religious before or in opposition to the religion blessing the item, going for the blessing for the sake of simplicity when compared to enchanting, there are bound to be problems. There are people that are more about getting the best power build and the fastest way to path to lvl 20 than they are about making a good story or adhering to IC reasons for the actions there characters take, and they would abuse such a system for their own gain rather than any IC reason.

If it was restricted to a factions such as the Ezerite clerics, or the Morninglord clerics, or the Nerull clerics or whatever other factions are out there that use faith as a central theme then I could see that as viable.  It would restrict the access to those who are more dedicated to the religions, and be a boon to those factions.

Either way it should not be as powerful as an enchantment unless it requires the same effort to achieve... the trophy that would be turned in would have to be worthy of the blessing and should be rare enough that it is comparable (I know this is sort of nebulous but I'm sure you get it) to finding a player that's invested the time and effort into leveling alchemy to the top tier and collecting the reagents from the likes of the most challenging or rare monsters in the game... and still have a risk of failure in distilling the essence or conducting the enchantment.  Pretty much the difficulty and risk should be comparable to that required of enchanting or be appropriately lessened so as to keep enchanting a desirable service/skill.

High_Priestess_of_Tinsel

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2013, 10:45:15 AM »
I like the deity restrictions, in fact I was thinking along those lines too. I don't see how a deity from another world would have the power to bless something inside Ravenloft's plane anyway. It would really be all about regional faith and conversions. Just a bit of fun flavour for those that enjoy playing those faiths, not unfair at all to those who come through the mists following foreign deities, since that is what the player chose to do, and having a weapon or item blessed should be just as difficult and, if not more special than enchanting.
My thoughts were that the blessing thing would be exactly the same mechanics as enchanting, but just a different setting/method. Your idea of rare, comparable trophies is a good thing to think on. Perhaps a drop could be possible on bosses in difficult dungeons. This would require a party, so there is more player involvement and interaction there, and also the possibility of more than one person wanting the trophy, which while that could lead to some OOC annoyances, (hopefully not the case), it could create some interesting role play also. While that isn't quite on the same level as spending all that time harvesting re-agents, levelling alchemy and then risking it all on a dice roll, it's the best I can come up with for the moment.

Juice

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2013, 03:03:12 PM »

Yo you two

Some DMs do give blessed items for great RP or really cool weapons for going after a big bad evil, without taking an exp hit. You can get cool stuff like this form pure RP and offering juicy story RP goodness to the DMs.
Some my be made up items for a made up DM quest like Umm Special daggers to kill a white wolf and some items will be cannon like the Holy Avenger Weapons. If the DMs think you deserve the awesome cool gear they will give it to you just as long as you have an epic story and amazing RP to go along with it. It has been done before i know of.... 2 Holy Avenger type weapons that have been given to players in game but it is a very high power item and the PLAYER needs to be very responsible with such an item.

SO i wont be seeing one anytime soon.

DMs DO give out high power weapons armour and items, some are religious some are not, some are faction orientated some are not. The items that fit with cannon like say the amulet of ravenkind are not restricted to religion or alignment or anything how ever it is an item the DMs can give out. If you have awesome RP and great story DMs can reward you with many things like EXP, Items, DP's, Quests, ect the possibilities are endless. Just RP well and Create amazing player driven stories and you may be rewarded with some cool stuff.

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2013, 03:56:12 PM »
I feel I should point out that items such as the Holy Symbol of Ravenkind are unique relics that are not meant to be permanently kept by players. Also that particular holy symbol's use is limited to Lawful Good characters. :P

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Juice

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2013, 04:05:18 PM »
I feel I should point out that items such as the Holy Symbol of Ravenkind are unique relics that are not meant to be permanently kept by players. Also that particular holy symbol's use is limited to Lawful Good characters. :P

Indeed I was using as an example (Having never actually seen the item :P). Im sure there are many items cannon or not that DMs can hand out to players be it for a short period of time or a long period. Trust me being able to have your character hold one of these items or just get to have one in you inventory is worth the 34 hour long quests or the months of planing an RP event just because you think its cool and the DMs love your idea. It all pays off and the DM Team are watching and do take note of your amazing Role Play.

Not kidding about those 34 hour quests. DM MACABRE COME BACK TO ME!!!!!!
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 04:11:07 PM by Juice »

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Tyras

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2013, 04:15:03 PM »
Was more brain storming on system stuff than DM rewards.  But yeah I know DMs can reward players if they feel it would make sense.  I just haven't received one yet because there is the fear that with how awe inspiring my characters and RP are that giving them any further items may cause the server to implode and kittens rain down from the sky in Denmark.

On topic I would much rather see the existing enchanting system worked on rather than add alternatives if for nothing else due to the investment some have made in learning the craft and the supporting craft of alchemy.  If an alternative system were to be implemented that would do away with the player crafter aspect then it should be very restrictive and or weaker than enchanting or it may risk making the craft and the investment made by players into that craft obsolete.

I like ideas that would give more options to the effect and enchantment gives to an item, perhaps giving different types of enchantments based on the essences used in the enchantment... I'm new to the craft myself, and have not had the opportunity to experiment much due to finding few people that will put up XP to allow me to do so, but are other essences able to be used besides radiant or glowing?  

Maybe a way to experiment on items with essences to practice the skill without the XP loss, but for minor effects.  An example, boots enchanted with the two glowing essences and an XP hit gives +9 discipline.  Maybe with the glowing essences and no XP hit it could give a +2 or +3 discipline and would allow for an enchanter to get some crafting XP.  Allow for them to test different essences for different effects but at a greatly reduced level (twenty or thirty percent) if no XP loss is involved.

Just some Ideas  :D
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 01:13:44 PM by Tyras »

High_Priestess_of_Tinsel

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2013, 01:08:22 PM »
Yup, just brainstorming. I think playing around with the enchanting script and applying its potential to different things would have some fun results.
More ideas the better, imo.  :D

dutchy

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2013, 04:49:10 PM »
Yup, just brainstorming. I think playing around with the enchanting script and applying its potential to different things would have some fun results.
More ideas the better, imo.  :D

yea what i would like is other dmg types added to it, for example atm i want a warhammer  but all i would get and can get is devine dmg, dont want that..well maybe i do but maybe i want electrical instead or something.

or would that be getting to over powered?   i mean a dmg type is a dmg type no?
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Juice

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2013, 06:57:57 PM »
Yup, just brainstorming. I think playing around with the enchanting script and applying its potential to different things would have some fun results.
More ideas the better, imo.  :D

yea what i would like is other dmg types added to it, for example atm i want a warhammer  but all i would get and can get is devine dmg, dont want that..well maybe i do but maybe i want electrical instead or something.

or would that be getting to over powered?   i mean a dmg type is a dmg type no?

2 war hammers with electrical dam on them Solomon has the Miljnorson which is +1ab +1d4 electrical from memory and there is the thunderstruck hammer dunno what that does

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Bad_Bud

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2013, 07:14:38 PM »
The damage type on the enchanted weapons is what it is because there's nothing in the game that blocks positive energy damage.

I wouldn't mind if people were able to choose a different "element" for their bonus damage, because all of the alternatives are less effective than positive energy.

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2013, 07:32:59 PM »
The damage type on the enchanted weapons is what it is because there's nothing in the game that blocks positive energy damage.

I wouldn't mind if people were able to choose a different "element" for their bonus damage, because all of the alternatives are less effective than positive energy.

Actually there's a ring that dropped at one point.... it's why bleeding damage got changed from Positive to Magical.
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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2013, 09:04:45 PM »
I haven't seen that ring in a long time, and I assume its existence was just an oversight in the first place.  There still are no monsters with positive energy resistance.

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2013, 09:44:35 PM »
Yes, I think they removed it from the loot tables.
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dutchy

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2013, 03:12:39 AM »
well i still would like to change the dmg type, i would prefer electrical over devine, but thats just me.

no doubt some would like negative to suit their chars so on so on.
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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2013, 10:12:08 AM »
I would like to see a blessing system. However, the question is how to implement it. Protect it from abuse, ect... One way I can see this is having some sort of piety point system along with xp system as well. Someone would need x amount of piety on top of x amount xp. However, question is how a piety system would work without being abuse. Like some ravenloft deities maybe rare, elusive, or not common. Some people try to follow such religions For instance how many people follow the Hala? If you rely on DMs to give piety points, then the people who live in parts of the world like Asia get screwed over in that regard do to the fact that times matching up with DMs can be difficult. These are the problems I can see. Like I would like to see blessing work different than enchanting, like its more focus toward the deity's enemy. Like Morninglords would get some bonus against undead, Erizites maybe against Shapechangers, Hala against monstrous humanoids, etc.. This would had some variety and depth to blessing instead of just cookie cutting it. But how would such a system would work with out having to have a DM or Admin constantly present.

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2013, 10:49:30 AM »
I always thought that the magical essences would only do the enhancement when enchanting first came out, and that the other essences would determine the type of dmg that went on a weapon or any type of resistance for armor/shield, or saves for boots. Sadly I  discovered that wasn't the case. If enchanting were going to be changed why not change it that way? If it's not too much trouble.
Then there would be the option for acid, fire, neg, and cold dmgs.  If you wanted something like a blessed weapon you would obviously need holy water and a priest, which however I would think would be similar to enchanting but vastly different, and most likely limited to clergy of established churches with in the core that are accessible. So in order for a char to access the blessing system they would either have to be a member of that church faction or some how blessed off on to use such divine favors. The only if I could see for the blessing is possibly finding a blessing alter in some old ruined church, ie the catacombs under the ml church in barovia village or hidden in the monastery of the silver threads, if you could figure out how to get in past the odd symbols and such.

dutchy

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Re: Enchanting Restrictions
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2013, 07:56:17 PM »
I always thought that the magical essences would only do the enhancement when enchanting first came out, and that the other essences would determine the type of dmg that went on a weapon or any type of resistance for armor/shield, or saves for boots. Sadly I  discovered that wasn't the case. If enchanting were going to be changed why not change it that way? If it's not too much trouble.
Then there would be the option for acid, fire, neg, and cold dmgs.  If you wanted something like a blessed weapon you would obviously need holy water and a priest, which however I would think would be similar to enchanting but vastly different, and most likely limited to clergy of established churches with in the core that are accessible. So in order for a char to access the blessing system they would either have to be a member of that church faction or some how blessed off on to use such divine favors. The only if I could see for the blessing is possibly finding a blessing alter in some old ruined church, ie the catacombs under the ml church in barovia village or hidden in the monastery of the silver threads, if you could figure out how to get in past the odd symbols and such.


great idea.
but it might not be dooable as the essences and the whole alchemy table is flagged as alchemy if you flag it for another thing it might not work, you have to remember we are dealing with an old game that does not have the sophisitacted scripts  other games of this day and age have, so might not be dooable.
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