Am I wasting my time?

[Teladorian]

Greetings.                                   

I have made this topic (don't normally use forums so sorry if this is the wrong section) because of some rather troubling OOC information I was given after my character's story started to take a dramatic turn. Having been in Barovia a while now, my character Ti'rala Varen-having once thought her kind extinct and now finds many Elves around her in Barovia-has caught word of Sithicus and of a Tyrant who rules over the Elves there. A slightly chaotic 'good character' her first instinct is to strike out at this Tyrant. She has been convinced to sit back and prepare in various ways and so on but OOC I now have massive concerns that by simply following where the roleplay takes me I may be walking into a one-sided fight.

I've been told that-on the larger scale-things don't really change much. Now I'm not much concerned if the Elves win or not, or if they win and then there are consequences like-for example-Degannwy having to be evacuated because the Elven uprising hightens Barovian paranoia and dislike of Elves, but what I do care about is a world that seemingly can evolve around player actions suddenly turning static because a story lead to an IC attempt to change something big.

What I really want to know is this: Will I be going into a deep, long lasting story? or will I simply get trampled on without any hope?

[Geiger]

Things to find out, pretty much.

There are some.. nasty things to find out about Sithican elves, for instance. lol.

[DM Tarokka]

Plus it seems Sithicus has been for long in the plans of the Developers Teams...

... however long lasting changes to the setting are not really impossible, though they are highly unlikely especially because for its own nature a permanent world must have some "steady" lines among which moving. IC attempts, even in the past, have been done, for instance, to overthrow Strahd: any attempt of the same kind is destined to move to a very tragic ending, so it's really up to you if keeping on that direction, in my view.

[Teladorian]

Well if such is the case then I suppose the answer to the topic name is "Yes". I'll wait for DM confirmation of course but looks like i'll either be joining the winning team or moving on then. RPing in a world that stays the same no matter what just isn't that appealing for me i'm afraid. Thanks for the input.

[Shadowthrone]

Development of Sithicus is on hold for the foreseeable future.

There are IC factors to take into account though. The Elves of Sithicus already have their own method of dealing with the tyrant - they basically ignore him because he has a short attention span and ultimately they wait for him to die. They probably wouldn't appreciate an outsider coming in and acting as if they know best so support from them would be unlikely, especially since Sithican elves are consumed by melancholy and apathy.

On an OOC level, you would have to wait for Sithicus to be implemented. You would also require a DM to be willing to play the part of Azrael and his minions, and ultimately you would have to accept that you probably wouldn't win.

[Teladorian]

That last part is what bothers me the most, after all, why RP something if the result is predictable based on a desire by the controling DMs to not change anything? If as an example the Elves were rallied against him and eventuly had him cornered with only his bodyguards left to defend him while the Elves stand as a decent army.....well, having him suddenly unleash some ultimate doom spell to keep things the same wouldn't be very condusive to further roleplay for any involved would it? Hence the topic question of am I wasting my time, because if I am then its not really roleplay for me its just.....nothing really, staying in the same place doing the same stuff over and over. Thanks again for input.

[Kendaric]

You can accomplish a lot of things IC already, but some goals are just too big and world changing events, while not necessarily impossible, are problematic at best in a PW environment. Also you need to bear in mind the very nature of the setting, it's by the very nature of Ravenloft and the nature of gothic horror far less "epic" than your average D&D/high fantasy setting.

[HellsPanda]

Also the fact remains the Elves of Sithcius are very apathetic, so your never going to form them into a united army. They just don't care

[Teladorian]

On the matter of the nature of the setting one must consider that a war like this in so dark a realm would be even longer and more bloody than a war in another world and win or lose the consequences would certainly be just as bloody. To go by my previous example, should the Elves win it could increase the paranoia in places like Barovia, force the Elves of Degannwy to flee or even cause a baptism of fire for the newly independent Elven realm by having another country go to war to try and seize on the chance for expansion and so on. The possibilities for this to be done without breaking the setting are quite numerous but in the end, it comes down to what the DMs are willing to do on this. This could create a story that could go on for years. Or it could produce nothing more than a minor diversion for folks on the forums.

This could even end up faltering based on the naure of the Elves of Sithicus, turning into more of a Robin Hood style story.

But in the end I guess the fate of this story rests purely in the hands of fellow Ravenloft RPers and the DMs up top now.

[Troukk]

Waste of time is a harsh word though.

I chased Strahd with my last character, died trying, wouldn't do anything different if I could turn back time.

It's about telling and living a good story. Winning is irrelevant.

[Teladorian]

Troukk, please see above. Like I said, I don't care about winning, I care about the outcome being based on what happens, not what DMs want of it OOCly.

[Troukk]

I'm not talking about killing the Tyrant. Even changing how elves react to their tyrant would be considered a "win" for a chaotic character.

In my opinion, Ravenloft is a particularly adecuate setting for a permanent world, because of it's oppressive nature.

Even if you have no chances whatsoever of changing things in any way, I guarantee you that you will have a lot of fun trying.

[Teladorian]

I'm afraid I don't share that last view. I may not be published but I am a writer and one thing I have learnt above all else is that you can't build a good story if you write the ending first. Thats exactly the case here, everything I do now would be simply preperation for the day my character dies. Its like when reading a book as well as writing one, would you enjoy a book as much as you might if you read the ending first and then read the rest of it?

[Mayvind]

Dark Power would not permit it anyway... in yours moment of victory .. the mist probably come for you to port you back to ever land you came from. Yours story end while others begins anew. I know yours frustration about not be able to effect the server in massive way, the DMs and Dev have not such resource to deal with it. I think during my time here i burn Vallaki several times, kill hundreds of garda, even help in killing Strahd and see someone rule the castle for 3 days before he was kiled and his corpse stuffed down in Castle Ravenloft tomb.

If i have my way i would rule Barovia by now but. This server is not about me and my story alone, but every one else. The Ravenloft setting is not about changes. Some Domain for hundreds of years nothing change the Dark Power want it that way. And if event drive to change, it will not be result that you wanted.

But this should not discourage for you to try... it is about the journey not the destination. But if you don't want to waste yours precious time play game that does not change. I suggest you create a company and become rich like Bill Gate then try to fight poverty and corruption see if that work. Real life so much different then Barovia. Or do it like me and play CiV dominating the world .. well i cheat a bit and give me unlimited resource who does not do that ?  

[Mayvind]

Oh and after reading yours post again, there was a case a druid of Malar whom lead rebellion again Strahd many years ago the story was evolving and fun and in the end. He challenge Strahd and die and the rebellion was ended but it effect many lives Aka players and The player him self was offer DM ship. I don't remember those names anymore short memories due to drinking and lack of excercise. But it was fun and that the main thing play to have fun and others have fun including DMs and Dev and maybe just maybe you can pull it off. But right now without lifting a finger to try to do anything and asking for result and confirmation you will get shoot down.

[Teladorian]

In the long run I will be considering others and i'm not here to force a change. My character can die off in some form, sure. But one thing I -cannot- do is forge a good, enjoyable story for myself or anyone who RPs with me if I already know the ending. From whats been said, if I go on then everything I do will be totaly pointless because even if things go in my favour IC it'll still get turned on it's head at the last moment. The reason I am now annoyed at this isn't because i'm angry at my character being nerfed or whatever but because all i'll be doing is leading my character and any characters who follow her into a perma death regardless of what actuly happens in the RP.

How could -anyone- get any enjoyment out of something like that?

[monsinyana]

It might help if you look at it this way.

the realm of ravenloft is a place where evil has a stacked deck against us.
Its not really about 'winning' or 'change' so much as 'surviving'

if not for us.. evil would swallow the world and the people's lives would get even worse.

At best.. we are trying to hold back evil one more night so people live to see another day through our sacrifice.


and look at the bright side-

yes you CAN form an army
yes you CAN probably find Soth or go after the Tyrant
yes you CAN try and change things


are you creating stories that involve other PCs?

are you energizing PCs to all work towards a common goal?

have you achieved the first steps that may eventually lead to a rebellion?

try and get all those things done before you worry about overthrowing the Tyrant.


Trust me if youre doing awesome things you will find plenty of support from both the player base and DMs




Massive chances have occurred on the server. huge powerful factions have been created based on players initially starting something

and there have been wars

[Kendaric]

In the long run I will be considering others and i'm not here to force a change. My character can die off in some form, sure. But one thing I -cannot- do is forge a good, enjoyable story for myself or anyone who RPs with me if I already know the ending. From whats been said, if I go on then everything I do will be totaly pointless because even if things go in my favour IC it'll still get turned on it's head at the last moment. The reason I am now annoyed at this isn't because i'm angry at my character being nerfed or whatever but because all i'll be doing is leading my character and any characters who follow her into a perma death regardless of what actuly happens in the RP.

How could -anyone- get any enjoyment out of something like that?

1) You don't know the ending. At this point, especially as Sithicus isn't added as a domain yet, you're just assuming what the ending will be. There are way too many variables to make an actual prediction. It could even happen that the DMs/Devs consider this a great idea/plot hook.

2) While permadeath is possible your plans could fail in a number of ways that don't lead to permadeath for anyone or you might even win.

In the end, it's about the journey, not the destination. Whether such plans will work out in the end or not is irrelevant, you'd probably spark a lot of RP with it and that's what counts.

[APorg]

It's not about the destination but the journey.

That being said, the overall prevalence of Doom can be overstated. Yes, good guys die; yes, they can only win relatively minor victories in the face of the great evils that the Dark Powers allow to reign supreme.

But even Van Richten lived to a ripe old age before his doom finally overcame him. Sure, he'd lost many loved ones along the way and was a tormented man. But he achieved great things in his time and unearthed much great lore; his name is legendary in the Core.

The point is, if you define your fun conditions as "beating Strahd/Azalin/the Dark Powers", then that's not really an appropriate fun condition for a persistent world server where many other players have played and will play. If you manage it, then you're depriving anyone else of being able to do it. So in a sense it's not fair to let you "win" because then others can't be allowed to "win". So the fairest condition to maintain is to keep a relative status quo and keep your victories more local and personal.

[airengale]

In the long run I will be considering others and i'm not here to force a change. My character can die off in some form, sure. But one thing I -cannot- do is forge a good, enjoyable story for myself or anyone who RPs with me if I already know the ending. From whats been said, if I go on then everything I do will be totaly pointless because even if things go in my favour IC it'll still get turned on it's head at the last moment. The reason I am now annoyed at this isn't because i'm angry at my character being nerfed or whatever but because all i'll be doing is leading my character and any characters who follow her into a perma death regardless of what actuly happens in the RP.

How could -anyone- get any enjoyment out of something like that?

I know pretty much everyone here is telling you to expect an outcome that's not in your favor, and that your character will ultimately fail their goals. That's not the case. Play as though you can change the server with your character; by doing so you will be surprised with the outcome. It's not about win or lose, but if it must be, then someone on this server has already successfully escaped the mist alive and well. It was their closure, of course a permanent one for that character, but it was a victory that very few of are aware.

One of the dms here said that a good story flows freely; you'll get that experience here.

[Sharauvyn]

Waste of time is a harsh word though.

I chased Strahd with my last character, died trying, wouldn't do anything different if I could turn back time.

It's about telling and living a good story. Winning is irrelevant.

I get entirely what the OP is getting at.  I feel much the same way.   First of all, it's not about winning and losing for a person to feel as the OP has expressed.  For some, if not many, players, playing the game is about "doing" something.  For others, it's about immersing and "experiencing" something, which in theory can be done in as passive a role as watching a movie without having *any input at all* on how *anything* happens, period.  For others, it's about "acting" out a part in a story, and they don't need to affect how anything goes, if they get to act a role, they are happy.  There's probably more approaches to RP than that, but the point being, for some players "doing" is most important, and it doesn't feel like "doing" if you are beating your head on a brick wall.  It sounds to me like the OP is posted from the perspective of a "doer."

That being said, on PoTM there are still a lot of things to "do."  There are plenty of lesser evils that are defeatable, for one.  And for two, escape is, while exceedingly difficult, possible.  One can, theoretically, stir the pot by defeating evil after evil after evil, and then escape the land of mists before the evils of Ravenloft crush them.  One can also simply remain in Ravenloft defeating evil after evil and see how long one can get away with it before getting smashed for good.  None of these things is easy, and if one is going to play here, one  has to accept the odds are horribly stacked against you in doing those things.  But, if one wants to take on probably the hardest challenges in the NWN world, then there is room here for a "doer."

[Strigoi]

I will add my personal perspective on the topic,

Its important to remember that this is not a small Pen & Paper Dungeon & Dragons group, this is a a persistent multiplayer world. the word "persistent" should indicate to you that some aspects Within the world will remain consistent so the server is able to carry on. Darklords, the setting, and canon NPC's are just some examples of persistent aspects that have to be maintained in order for all of us to continue enjoying the server/setting which we have come to love mutually. of course if this was a Pen & Paper game, that wouldn't be the case.

That being said, there are players who have achieved enormous goals, who have made dynamic changes within the world. they put forth the initiative and carried the torch, catching the attention of a DM or two who included them (and the players involved with them) in their plots. anything is possible if you work at it, but like anything it requires commitment. some advice i would offer is to be self sufficient, don't rely on others to create an enjoyable experience, create that experience yourself. Players that achieved these "epic" goals with their characters were all of this same caliber.

I wouldn't set your standards and goals to high, else you will always be disappointed with the outcome. every player/character on Prisoners of the Mist has the ability to launch their own ideas, to attract other Characters and players to your story. you all have the power to mold and produce your own dynamics among the entire community. each action your characters take creates tiny ripples that have the potential of turning into monstrous waves.

Just something to keep in mind.  

[RedwizardD]

It is easy to get frustrated and find the world static if you are a relatively new arrival.

Even if you cannot take out a dark lord permanently, you can work towards it and let it be a driving motivation for your character. It will take some time to gather resources and allies for something of that magnitude and you may have fun as you go. If all goes well you may even earn the chance to have that climactic face off. Then again there's always the chance of being eaten by werewolves.

Really it only seems a waste if the character wasn't enjoyable.

[ThePwush]

It's not about the destination but the journey.

This. 

[HellsPanda]

Strahd did loose controll of Barovia temporarily in a Plot ages ago