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Author Topic: Stealth-based Enchanting Suggestion  (Read 9610 times)

Misted_Horror

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Re: Stealth-based Enchanting Suggestion
« Reply #50 on: June 19, 2013, 01:29:33 PM »
it's simple maths lol, a dedicated sneak should not be able to be caught by someone -just- off item buffs. The same way someone shouldn't be able to sneak past a dedicated spot/listen build in pure bonuses from stealth gear.

Metal_ash

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Re: Stealth-based Enchanting Suggestion
« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2013, 04:41:23 PM »
We all know it, spot and listen is way more easy and also you are able to get scores far higher then move silent or hide. That's a fact.

With right gear, the right build and a true sight spell on you you can hit actually well over 80+ spot on the server.

Listen the same, even though it is harder... but it is easy to hit around 50-55 listen...you should also remember that stand still gives you a bonus of +5 listen.

That means you need gear and spells that not exist today on the server to actually even be close to remain hidden at least for some time, even if you face a good spotter..as it is today he see you as soon you enter screen.

It have been tested, I do have one of the best sneaks on the server... tested against 3 good spotters, ALL saw me before 3 seconds had past. Yes, they are really good spotters, but so is my sneak.

camouflage is the best spell around to give hide bonus, but the spells that add on spot beat camouflage by far... Fact.


Better sneak gear or not, that be DM and developers choice...
But even to argue here about who "win" betwin the detectors or the sneak is sure not needed again.
Them that play sneaks and also them that have build characters made for detections knows exactly what i am talking about.

If you ever get to have around 65 move silent and hide you are actually lucky cause that means you have more or less the best gear on the server + all feats + max skillpoint backed up with a good Dex.
Something a good listener or spotter beats actually rather easy if they have placed some focus on be able to.

To give the sneak a fair chance he would need 10-15 more hide or move silent then the detectors to at least be able to remain hidden for some time.

What the biggest problem is as i see it is...for an example, i have a character, he have not skillpoints in spot, he have no good WIS to back it up with, with gear and a simple spell he hit 40 spot, that means there need to be a rather high level sneak with good gear to get past him, and yes...the spell he boost his spot with he can have on him permanent as the duration is far longer then his rest time, or just recast it when it goes out.
I do have a pure level 13 rogue, he have some really good sneak gear but not the best there is. He have placed three feats and maxed out both hide and MS with skillpoints, he would be detected within 15 seconds by my character with no skill points what so ever in spot or listen...sure not fair against the sneak as i see it.

If you never played a sneak here on PoTM, roll one up and you soon understand how hard it is here, negatives when you pick something up, open a lock, disable a trap, trigger a trap, true seeing monsters in many areas and what not.
But most disheartened when your midlevel sneak is spotted or heard by a noob character just falling out of the mists at the vistani ( not really true but close to  :) ).

Last, something to keep in mind... many sneaks i build to use that as their main strength, cancel that for them and many of the sneaks loose their main "power".

Over and out!

// cheers!
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 05:42:35 PM by Metal_ash »

eyeofpestilence

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Re: Stealth-based Enchanting Suggestion
« Reply #52 on: June 19, 2013, 07:24:42 PM »

If you ever get to have around 65 move silent and hide you are actually lucky cause that means you have more or less the best gear on the server + all feats + max skillpoint backed up with a good Dex.
Something a good listener or spotter beats actually rather easy if they have placed some focus on be able to.

To give the sneak a fair chance he would need 10-15 more hide or move silent then the detectors to at least be able to remain hidden for some time.

I'm not a mathematician but I recall the numbers being something like a pc with 10 ranks higher will be auto detect within 1-60 seconds. 15 ranks higher will auto detect within 1-180 seconds. Who hasn't had someone stand behind them without noticing them for some time.

Last, something to keep in mind... many sneaks i build to use that as their main strength, cancel that for them and many of the sneaks loose their main "power".
+1

Thanks DW!

Lucadia

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Re: Stealth-based Enchanting Suggestion
« Reply #53 on: June 19, 2013, 10:48:03 PM »
Quote
i have plans to enchant an ebon tiger armor at some point just to see what it adds
enchanted armor adds +6 hide

Avatar6666

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Re: Stealth-based Enchanting Suggestion
« Reply #54 on: June 19, 2013, 11:08:21 PM »
Quote
i have plans to enchant an ebon tiger armor at some point just to see what it adds
enchanted armor adds +6 hide
No move silent bonus though?


“In brightest day, in blackest night,
No evil shall escape my sight
Let those who worship evil’s might,
Beware my power… Green Lantern’s light!”

Misted_Horror

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Re: Stealth-based Enchanting Suggestion
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2013, 12:29:31 AM »
No.

Sinful_Wishes

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Re: Stealth-based Enchanting Suggestion
« Reply #56 on: June 22, 2013, 05:20:14 PM »
I don't think there should be enchanted stealth gear. One of the major problems on NWN is the mechanics and assumptions about how stealth is treated. Currently it pretty much is lawlsy-super-ninja who can stealth-talk and walk circles around crowds of people during the middle of the day. Stealth should never be undetectable, and I'm glad spells like Amplify/Clairo exist to make sure it isn't such a god tool.
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Avatar6666

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Re: Stealth-based Enchanting Suggestion
« Reply #57 on: June 22, 2013, 06:59:58 PM »
I don't think there should be enchanted stealth gear. One of the major problems on NWN is the mechanics and assumptions about how stealth is treated. Currently it pretty much is lawlsy-super-ninja who can stealth-talk and walk circles around crowds of people during the middle of the day. Stealth should never be undetectable, and I'm glad spells like Amplify/Clairo exist to make sure it isn't such a god tool.

Problem is right now is that there is no way to stealth by someone who has some decent spot gear. I am not even talking about above average gear, while on the other hand the stealther has to buy ultra rare to rare items to be seen. It is to far unbalanced for detectors VS stealthers at this point and needs to be adjusted.


“In brightest day, in blackest night,
No evil shall escape my sight
Let those who worship evil’s might,
Beware my power… Green Lantern’s light!”

Dusk

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Re: Stealth-based Enchanting Suggestion
« Reply #58 on: June 24, 2013, 08:43:38 PM »
I don't think there should be enchanted stealth gear. One of the major problems on NWN is the mechanics and assumptions about how stealth is treated. Currently it pretty much is lawlsy-super-ninja who can stealth-talk and walk circles around crowds of people during the middle of the day. Stealth should never be undetectable, and I'm glad spells like Amplify/Clairo exist to make sure it isn't such a god tool.

For intents and purposes, this is what I have in mind when I say 'enchanted stealth armor':

+1 AC
+4 or 5 Hide/Move Silently*
+Varying bonus from different backings

*Does not stack with previous bonuses from enchanting. So, Ebon Tiger-backed armor enchanted would not give more than +6 to Hide.

Say you have an Ebon Tiger-backed leather armor that is enchanted. The end result would, at best, have one more Move Silently point and two more Hide points than standard Shadowed Armor. When players can get bonuses by a couple factors of ten from items and spells, an extra +1 or +2 to stealth skills will not unbalance the system. On the flip side, those arguing here that stealth is underpowered against detection right now really shouldn't get too excited by this if it was implemented the way I wish it would be-- it won't be a game-changer at all, simply a way to acquire a stealth suit at, or just one or two points above that of Shadowed Leathers. Furthermore, you'll have to be level 14, kill a dragon, and then find a skilled alchemist and enchanter to get such an item. Consider also the XP cost of enchanting armor and the fact there's rarely ever player-enchanted armor on the market.

I do not see how arguments of stealth becoming a god mode hold any value.

Mind you, it's a very valid claim if the idea were to have enchanted gear that far surpasses anything currently available. That I would actually be against as well. I just want to reiterate one final time that my own intent with this suggestion was to offer variety. A Fighter/Rogue needs a boost to fortitude and still wishes to use stealth? Shadowed Trollskin Leathers. I've seen numerous characters, and played one myself, who had a set of clothing/armor for stealth, and then a set for combat. The idea is to combine the two without necessarily making one over-powered by the other. The best stealth clothing/armor available should still be an exceedingly rare item from the loot tables IMO, and the best armor for combat/saves should still be armor enchanted via the normal method.

My suggestion is the creation of a middle ground using existing systems.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 08:47:04 PM by Folex »