Author Topic: Jail - Alternatives (Read 9722 times)

Norture · « **Reply #50 on:** June 01, 2013, 05:00:12 PM »

Quote from: Vengeful Seraphim on June 01, 2013, 02:32:42 PM

As much as I'd like to see pillories, public cages, and other things, having it all without a DM is the god-king of bad ideas. People don't respect the NPCs enough already, and I highly suspect some high-level mage or paladin would DO THE RIGHT THING, try to free the prisoner, and murder dozens of innocent guards just doing their job in the process. Because that seems to be a common trend.

You know what would also happen? If the stocks were in the outskirts or something, jailed outskirts sitter people would just RP like normal with their BFFs like it ain't no thang. Or they'd play the martyr card to everyone who would listen to their story, and get really, really, really upset at people who verbally abused them or spat on them or anything. Or both, and they'd get upset whenever someone interrupted their totally normal nothing bad is happening RP with harassment. And that WILL happen, because being in stocks means the character is a criminal and is free game. So in all likelihood, it would either be the scenario Vengeful described, or a CC nightmare that ends up driving the faction inactive because it kills everyone's RP boner. Honestly, something like stocks might only be a good option for someone the garda can trust at an OOC level to handle it maturely.

Iconoclast · « **Reply #51 on:** June 01, 2013, 05:11:28 PM »

Like so many other props in game, could always provide the stocks and cage, and allow the garda players to use their discretion, deciding when and how to use them. There are a number of veteran players in the garda faction capable of good judgment.

Someone could argue that locking criminals up in the citadel would only invite high level characters to go crazy in attempts to set criminals free, which has happened. However, just because some players have gone overboard on occasion with the citadel, it doesn't follow that the citadel shouldn't be used.

While the concerns of potential ridiculousness have merit, and just like other things, ridiculous incidents would at times occur, there are also solid positives with providing stocks and public cages.

I'm reminded of a great scene once, in which a garda had a criminal, and knowing there were a group of "caliban" on the outskirts of the outskirts, the garda approached and flung the naked outlander towards the group of "caliban." Feeding the scum to the wolves, so to speak. Similarly, the garda could sentence one to a night in the cage or stocks, and if they survive until the morning, they must have good friends and luck both.

dutchy · « **Reply #52 on:** June 01, 2013, 05:17:14 PM »

Quote from: Iconoclast on June 01, 2013, 05:11:28 PM

Like so many other props in game, could always provide the stocks and cage, and allow the garda players to use their discretion, deciding when and how to use them. There are a number of veteran players in the garda faction capable of good judgment.

Someone could argue that locking criminals up in the citadel would only invite high level characters to go crazy in attempts to set criminals free, which has happened. However, just because some players have gone overboard on occasion with the citadel, it doesn't follow that the citadel shouldn't be used.

While the concerns of potential ridiculousness have merit, and just like other things, ridiculous incidents would at times occur, there are also solid positives with providing stocks and public cages.

I'm reminded of a great scene once, in which a garda had a criminal, and knowing there were a group of "caliban" on the outskirts of the outskirts, the garda approached and flung the naked outlander towards the group of "caliban." Feeding the scum to the wolves, so to speak. Similarly, the garda could sentence one to a night in the cage or stocks, and if they survive until the morning, they must have good friends and luck both.

you are comparing the citadel wich has pc's in it (if on) and beside that a shitload of doors and npc's to an outskirts with 2 npc's during the day and 1 during the night on a wall?

herkles · « **Reply #53 on:** June 01, 2013, 05:19:03 PM »

I have seen stocks used before, though it was ages ago. I personally think placing them in the citadel area and the market district area would be best. Both areas are relatively secure.

Iconoclast · « **Reply #54 on:** June 01, 2013, 05:20:01 PM »

The comparison only serves to point out that the potential for ridiculous role play is always present with a number of props and areas in the game, and that the potential of bad form alone is not a sufficient grounds for not having the props.

Rather, provide the props, if they fit the setting, as stocks and cages do, and allow players in the garda faction to decide how and when to use them.

herkles · « **Reply #55 on:** June 01, 2013, 05:50:37 PM »

To not try because you will over-react is silly. At that point we might as well not try anything. Because "HIGH LEVEL MAGEs!!!!!!!!" Why do anything as a barovian garda, if you will just be beaten down by "HIGH LEVEL MAGES!!!!!!!!"

oh, I forgot, not everyone over-reacts and good rp can come of even the most minor things. Sometimes we damn ourselves by not wanting to try anything instead of seeing what can come of it.

dutchy · « **Reply #56 on:** June 01, 2013, 05:58:58 PM »

well thats migthy optemistic then, especially from those of you that knows how the vallaki area is and works.

i suppose the dm's and the CC dont have enough to do, so new complaints can fill the gap.

again i like the idea but i have 0 faith that the people can handle this as it should be handled.

you see how it goes at executions even then some are willing to step in and thats with several pc's and npc's present now remove that and just have your prisoner dangling there well i think the makers of prison break can get new material from observing these new "tools" for 2 months and they would have 4 new seasons to create

Iconoclast · « **Reply #57 on:** June 01, 2013, 06:01:10 PM »

If this is something that garda faction would like to try out, why not? I'm confident that it won't RUIN POTM FOREVER.

dutchy · « **Reply #58 on:** June 01, 2013, 06:08:37 PM »

no doubt that only oozes can ruin it forever or if ppl KEEP LOGGING ON WITH THE WRONG HAK

...soren did say spread the word.

well seems we are on a difrant side of this lil coin.

Amon-Si · « **Reply #59 on:** June 01, 2013, 06:57:16 PM »

I suspect that the offences that would result in only being put in stocks or a crow cage overnight are the ones people never perpetrate anyway (in a way that gets reported to us, anyway).
Theft
Fraud
Taking candy from strangers

If someone expects to be put in the stocks, put in a cage, or otherwise allowed out of the citadel after assaulting guarda with anything from daggers to huge balls of magical fire you will be dissapointed.

Pretty much the only offence I see that occurs frequently enough and is of low enough hostility is badmouthing the guarda or count.
Doesn't happen so often that we'd need all this additional dev or Dm interaction.
I also lay good money that people who bust out during the night will cry like little girls when their outcast rating shoots up to 2 million/we put a bounty on you/we execute you for escaping justice.

So, fun idea, probably much higher priorities atm.

Norture · « **Reply #60 on:** June 02, 2013, 12:28:09 AM »

I'm not saying don't try it, personally I think stocks would be pretty cool. I'm just being pessimistic and putting my bet down for worst-case-scenario ahead of time!

Dread · « **Reply #61 on:** June 02, 2013, 12:53:14 AM »

Quote from: Norture on June 02, 2013, 12:28:09 AM

I'm not saying don't try it, personally I think stocks would be pretty cool. I'm just being pessimistic and putting my bet down for worst-case-scenario ahead of time!

We have been on this server a while. We know what people are capable of. Also, let me know when someone (rebels don't count) is actually arrested for thievery and not just saying how the Garda are meany-poopyfaces. I'd be happy to reverse my position, whenever that happens to be, and they can have whatever sort of cool punishment they can think of.

dutchy · « **Reply #62 on:** June 02, 2013, 01:19:41 AM »

seems there are some of us thinking alike and some of us not.

Iconoclast · « **Reply #63 on:** June 02, 2013, 01:28:34 AM »

Nobody doubts that there will be some headaches. The difference between some of us might be how we handle our skepticism.

It's not that big of a deal. If the garda faction would like some more props and tools to try out, give them a chance is all. It's not as if they have to use the tools. They're simply there to be used, if desired. If we're not able to trust ourselves or anyone at all to role play with such props, then what in the heck are we doing here still?

dutchy · « **Reply #64 on:** June 02, 2013, 01:46:54 AM »

icnono i have to ask are you that optemistic?

you cannot possibly believe that this would work without others messing it up?
the citadel gate is atleast plot locked it needs a dm, these "stands" have no such thing

heey all the more kuddos to you if you trust the playerbase enough to interact with these things properly.

i just dont see the interaction being proper during mainly night time

herkles · « **Reply #65 on:** June 02, 2013, 01:54:55 AM »

LETS NEVER TRY ANYTHING. OUR PLAYBASE IS IMMATURE!!!! to not try anything because of fear "HIGH LEVEL MAGES!!!" and people being jerks is stupid. Guess what people can be jerks. oh well. It is better to try then just sit on one's ass.

The main issue though is that there are not that many who are arrested for things minor enough to be wanted a day in the stocks.

side note if you are saying the playerbase is immature, you are calling yourself immature as we collectively make up the playerbas.

Gutshank · « **Reply #66 on:** June 02, 2013, 02:21:45 AM »

More props gives us more flexibility in how we can approach things. It will be like the gallows in the outskirts. We might not use it a whole lot but the option will be there. I'd like to have an area that's more equipped to stage events like executions and public punishments. For the most part we are very DM dependent when it comes to running events like that.

dutchy · « **Reply #67 on:** June 02, 2013, 02:26:12 AM »

Quote from: Gutshank on June 02, 2013, 02:21:45 AM

More props gives us more flexibility in how we can approach things. It will be like the gallows in the outskirts. We might not use it a whole lot but the option will be there. I'd like to have an area that's more equipped to stage events like executions and public punishments. For the most part we are very DM dependent when it comes to running events like that.

no offence but as you should be

Gutshank · « **Reply #68 on:** June 02, 2013, 02:30:46 AM »

Hard to take offence when I have no idea what you're talking about but it doesn't matter. If anyone else has any general suggestions or alternative ideas feel free to share them.

dutchy · « **Reply #69 on:** June 02, 2013, 02:37:41 AM »

that such events need dm supervision that the guard faction itself cant do such things on there own

Dread · « **Reply #70 on:** June 02, 2013, 02:42:41 AM »

Some of you guys need to chill out. What is with all the angry posting lately? This is a 10-year old video-game.

Set down some stocks down in the Market District, maybe also one of those pillars like what is in the Garda's 'fun room' in the jails, if you'd like, and you think players can handle it. I'm merely casting my aspersions on whether the server can handle punishments like these without a DM present to help, aspersions which are highly justified, I might add. Most people ask for a DM when an execution happens with the gallows, anyway, because it's good to show the team proof that you did this, just in case problems come about later on down the line.

I really just don't see the need to fight over this. It's a couple placeables. If the developers think they don't got the time right now, then just ask a DM for a set of stocks and some blood splatter, and whether or not they can watch the scene and offer spice. It's not that hard, and I'm sure if one's on, then they'd be happy to help you. I certainly was, when I was DM.

dutchy · « **Reply #71 on:** June 02, 2013, 02:45:31 AM »

not angry at all if it came across that way wooooooooooopsie and sorry

Sharauvyn · « **Reply #72 on:** June 02, 2013, 06:29:19 PM »

I think having a stocks-type placeable or cage somewhere would add atmosphere even when not in use. People might be a little more respectful of the garda if they know even a minor infraction like mouthing off can land them in a low-level punishment that won't bother anyone's conscience at all for handing out. It might nip some of the lower level behaviors in the bud if there is a lesser punishment to be given short of the level of whipping if a garda just feels irritated enough to send a little message.

Blight · « **Reply #73 on:** June 03, 2013, 03:05:55 AM »

I think we're trying to make the law system far more comple in Barovia than it needs to be. A few lynchings, a couple of beheadings, and there's no need for stocks or cages or whatever.

I mean, the penalty for something as minor as theft in Barovia is dismemberment of the guilty hand. I think the above suggestions are really too low-key to even bother with. The Garda shouldn't be out to play fair. It's a inherently corrupt system that benefits the wealthy and persecutes the weak.

Please remove some more heads, instead.