Author Topic: Jail - Alternatives  (Read 9668 times)

Head Trauma

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2013, 06:02:57 PM »
Yes, Norture, there was someone we gave hard labor to.  :twisted:

Norture

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2013, 06:10:57 PM »
While I'm thinking back on all this, I think a major thing with corporal punishment and the like is that the prisoner needs to realize OOC that the role of their character is to "put on a show" of sorts. At that point it's not about your satisfaction, but to better the story for those around you. I'm sure all of us have seen Hardass McBadass get beaten down in the outskirts as a punishment, and just emote how they grunt and bear it or something. Totally boring. Yeah it doesn't look manly at all to scream in pain as you're publicly tortured, but it certainly makes for a better scene.

The reason I'm bringing this up is if there are stocks or cages put in place for prisoners, I'd hope they'd play along with the role they were put into.

Crimson Shuriken

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2013, 06:12:48 PM »
Norture you make me wish I still had my screenies from being imprisoned. I am sure I have them somewhere....
But yeah, pretty much, its always fun to interact with the Garda.


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dutchy

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2013, 07:25:54 PM »
those who are saying  dont bitch if you go to jail dont get what is said.

your online lets say 5 hours      and you get 15 mins of interaction           thats the problem    not the being there but the time being there with no interaction.


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Misted_Horror

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2013, 08:06:48 PM »
The way I saw it when in jail was stay online and idle, check every 5 minutes if you've had any IC interaction, otherwise watch a movie or two, get something to eat, etc.

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2013, 08:07:36 PM »
Yes.  Being jailed is a time to be flexible and let the onus fall on other players to move things along.


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dutchy

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2013, 08:18:22 PM »
pretty much so, used to check forums,eat play browser games or play xbox   so on so on.

as for the suggested additions.
nice idea truly is but makes 0 sense from a safety point of view.

why would the guards place a cage somewhere they do not have acces to at all times? especially in a land as barovia where there are vamps lycans outlanders witches and what not.
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Hatsune

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2013, 09:55:56 PM »
I sort of like the suggestions.

It'd be nice to see more interaction with criminals, beyond 'arrested' and 'executed'.

Obviously the Barovians use Crows cages, they have one on the Vallaki walls. It'd be neat to make it interactive.

The only thing i disagree on is the 'locks' issue. They should be made unbashable/pickable ONLY because there is basically always an NPC garda at the gate, or on the wall, so would require a DM for any sort of escape/rescue attempt.
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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2013, 10:08:31 PM »
I sort of like the suggestions.

It'd be nice to see more interaction with criminals, beyond 'arrested' and 'executed'.

Obviously the Barovians use Crows cages, they have one on the Vallaki walls. It'd be neat to make it interactive.

The only thing i disagree on is the 'locks' issue. They should be made unbashable/pickable ONLY because there is basically always an NPC garda at the gate, or on the wall, so would require a DM for any sort of escape/rescue attempt.

+1

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2013, 10:46:53 PM »
Stockades where fairly common place (historically) and used more as a deterrent for many would be criminals, of course most were left to rot there so it was more of a death sentence then a punishment however I like the idea for thieves, robbers and all round troublesome folk.
 A few days in a stockade, in the blazing sun without water... at worst would leave you mentally broken if not long dead.

APorg

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2013, 10:54:19 PM »
I think there's an excluded middle here.

The point being made is that by and large, all garda PCs resort to jailing criminal PCs because that's what they actually have the tools to do in a relatively secure way. Sure, other forms of punishment do occur, but those tend to be the exception rather than the rule. Even then, it tends to be a relatively limited audience: it's an exclusive audience that gets access to the Citadel RP -- or any of the extra-curricular punishments that Garda PCs come up with. Putting punishment facilities in the Outskirts opens up the roleplay to a much wider audience.

After all, part of how a society as brutal as Barovia maintains order is through frequent public exercises of vivid examples of punishment, as a means to cow the population. Sure, everyone knows bad stuff happens to you if a garda with a particularly sadistic intent or with the desire to make a point gets his hands on you, but there's a difference between knowing and seeing.
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dutchy

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2013, 02:02:47 AM »
the problem is why i dont see the reason for these new lockable places is the following.

i simply do not think the playerbase can behave enough to not kill the one in the cage or try to bust them out with a dm present using an acid flask or what not, its to easy.

the guards used to do difrant punishments aswell such as collect X amount of Y    but the current guards arnt the type for it so thats atm not used.

so if you have a stokade which is indeed a very common thing in that era its needs to be secure which simply isnt possible in the game.

i know you all are yapping oooooh would look nice on the wall.
yes it would look damn nice on the wall but do you think your allowed near it once they place prisoners near it? you think the pc guards will say sureeeeeee have a long convo with the prisoner go ahead while we stand here on guard duty???   you would be asked to leave depending on the guard that differs from nice to a hail of arrows following you as you run to safety.

thats the realistic train of thought regarding potm.  not saying i dislike the idea i think its a great idea, i just dont see it being practical or possible
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EberronBruce

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2013, 02:39:55 AM »
Dutchy hits lot of the concerns.

The issue is if you something where others can access it, they will either kill the PC or bust him out. There is a lot of resentment toward the garda from the players side and lots of players that would do things like that. So, that is one of those issues.

A crow cage would be nice. In ic terms it would be far more scarier than locked in a prison because it exposes you to the elements and to the creatures of the night. The idea of Madmordigon on Willow being in a crow cage, but in Barovia. Ya, you cant really defend yourself. So essentially you are like packaged hanging around for some werewolf to figure out how hes going to get to you.

However, someone would come along and cut you loose. Same with any stockade or public detainment.

What could be done is publicly detain someone or detain them in jail, but put up a bound. If someone pays the bound then the person can be released to that person in custody. However, this can be abused by both PCs and Garda characters alike.

Daboomer

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2013, 03:05:30 AM »
What about not using them as all time containers but simply a place to bring prisoners to in day time to make sure they get there fair share of "boooooooooooo!" and rotten eggs and what not?

Miuo

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2013, 03:07:46 AM »
Because the garda are not there for the transfer XD Unless it can be set up as a sort of auto script. That between X and Y hours you get portaled to a specific location with some NPC guards and have a force emote used in the script to lock you into the stock or cage.

Blight

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2013, 04:48:55 AM »
Sounds to me, Muio, that you need another character.

I've been jailed plenty of times on plenty of different characters. I can say your issue lies not with the Garda's inability to provide you with the roleplau you desire, byt with your complete dependency on the Garda to satisfy your need to play Muio. Accept that as is in real life, Jail is boring. Some things simply can't be changed, even if you translate it over to a video game.

if you don't want to be jailed, stay on the Garda's good side. IF you are still jailed, and don't want to wait around, play another character. That's what I do when there's no roleplay to be had on my character. During imprisonment i consider him temporarily shelved at the convenience of the Garda PCs. I got caught, my IC punishment is to be bored. From there on in, i am providing roleplay to the Garda, not the other way around.
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FullMoon

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2013, 07:33:41 AM »
Im not complaining about being in trouble? Im complaining about being dumped in a cell, and having rp yanked because there is no one active enough to rp. Specially when the one who arrested you did so the day before they knew they weren't going to be on for the next 2-3 days.

If you know your not going to be on, seems unfair to toss someone in a cell with "We will try to get someone for you to rp with. But im not gonna be here for the next few days". In such a case, rather then leaving the person to sit there unable to rp, play it out. torture, question, execute them before you have to leave. There is even the option to lock them up behind the ML temple, at least things can progress. Rather then being left to wait days for the person who locked you up to return ig.

There was even the commander there, and it was day when they finished questioning my char. Was entirely possible to march her out to the gallows and execute her in which ever way they had up their sleeves.

This +

I lost my main PC in much the same way. 0 rp, no communication about an event his body was going to be displayed and finally locked in the vault and effectively closured against my will. Conflict with the Garda should be fun rp. Not " You lose, we take your character now and you go away ! "

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2013, 08:28:14 AM »
Quote
If you know your not going to be on, seems unfair to toss someone in a cell with "We will try to get someone for you to rp with. But im not gonna be here for the next few days". In such a case, rather then leaving the person to sit there unable to rp, play it out. torture, question, execute them before you have to leave. There is even the option to lock them up behind the ML temple, at least things can progress. Rather then being left to wait days for the person who locked you up to return ig.

Miuo's quoting my words. My apologies that I usually work on weekends. I'll try not to arrest someone on Fridays ever again.
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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2013, 12:26:46 PM »
Use this thread as general feedback for jailing alternatives. If you have issues with specific situations then approach a dm or cc member. If you use this thread as a soapbox to address things that should be handled by a dm or cc member then it will get derailed. Just like the past guard thread. And the one before that. We appreciate the ideas and suggestions. I wish we had more mechanical options that were available to us like stocks, public cages, etc. If we had those available we would certainly utilize them.
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Apocrypha

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2013, 12:56:33 PM »
I can't even describe what a huge fan I am, of the Garda and their institution, but I'm going to try.

With 3 of my long term characters I have seen jailing variously.  I have been fortunate that even as reckless as I play my characters - I have enjoyed much roleplay that was before you cross the line and need to be executed... really as a service to the setting and the server.

So my characters become that one prisoner that Garda aren't necessarily willing to kill, but is still a rather serious problem, you see...

The Garda have fined them, assigned them labor, tortured them gruesomely, in just about every single way.  I think we all enjoyed it because I was engaging their characters in their element; perhaps even frustrating my captors with all my religious bad juju.  In a way, we all went to town.

And yeah, lots of down time too. But if you're really out there swinging, downtime for you is noticed by others and influences their roleplay. Yes, it's flavorless for you, sure, but it can be sweet nectar in ways for other people.

Regarding the Crow Cage or Stocks suggestions:
I see escalation.  PC Garda can't personally enforce against whatever Joe 20th level mage decides his moral compass tells him about this situation.  Anyway, mass murder of PC Garda and their NPC support that would naturally ensue, and you'd need a DM there anyway for that whole brutal murder in public spectacle thing, it can be negative for your health.

Moreso than that, the above spectacle is not what I personally desire to be a part of in Ravenloft.  It's not something I'd show some players in pen and paper that were new to the game.  On paper, you could use stocks and stay true to the setting, but here?  Even if you put the stocks in the Market District with a half dozen guards around it, DMs would have the new chore of enforcing in an area that doesn't run so well without them.
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Apocrypha

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2013, 12:58:28 PM »
Keep it dark and private and give it a little more respect, because the players who are entrusted with it deserve your trust.
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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2013, 02:32:42 PM »
As much as I'd like to see pillories, public cages, and other things, having it all without a DM is the god-king of bad ideas. People don't respect the NPCs enough already, and I highly suspect some high-level mage or paladin would DO THE RIGHT THING, try to free the prisoner, and murder dozens of innocent guards just doing their job in the process. Because that seems to be a common trend.

Krosk

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2013, 02:44:33 PM »
As much as I'd like to see pillories, public cages, and other things, having it all without a DM is the god-king of bad ideas. People don't respect the NPCs enough already, and I highly suspect some high-level mage or paladin would DO THE RIGHT THING, try to free the prisoner, and murder dozens of innocent guards just doing their job in the process. Because that seems to be a common trend.

I'd almost like to see that happen, just so I could watch the ensuing 'fallen paladin' rp. Because I'm pretty sure the murder of dozens of innocents constitutes an evil act, regardless of the justification behind it.
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Apocrypha

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2013, 02:51:00 PM »
Which requires a DM to be there every time.
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herkles

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Re: Jail - Alternatives
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2013, 03:01:10 PM »
I still would like to try this as I think it can be more fun. To not try this because of what might happen is no reason for might is not will.

also killing the peasents might mean a permenat trip to the castle  :twisted: