The Drain - Long Anticipated Updates?

[edarsenik]

It's not just caliban who frequent the Drain, it's essentially the underworld of Vallaki as a whole. Just to clarify that one again.
The Drain would realistically have a storage area for both coin and goods, since it's where a lot of the shady deals are made?

Sorry I mean the Drain (not just caliban..) shouldnt have a bank, storage or crafting.... If youre not a caliban then go to the other crafting stations.... Why do you even need to store items IC? An outcast merchant? (Not trying to be a dick.... just curious....)

[edarsenik]

I think the drain wouldnt realistically have a bank or storage because its to much of a liability, there would constantly be all kinds of scum trying to figure out how to rob the place blind and steal all the stored items... not to mention who IC would trust any of the freaks down there with their money or possessions? The Calibans should have little possesions, and would the other outcasts be willing to give their hard earned coin/items up IC? (I know I wouldnt..)  The crafting I could see... Though its not really needed as Caliban would probably not craft IC (most of them, though maybe a few of the smarter ones might...).... and there are crafting stations that can be used outside of the drain.... for the other outcasts who would craft IC...

[Feronius]

You can't use the bank, storage system or crafting stations within Vallaki (or Midway, etc.) if you're an outcast.
(An outcast being someone with an OCR rating above a certain point, the NPCs deny them service or attack on sight.)

And why does any player require those things? You do realise the only difference between outcasts and everyone else is a number on their OCR?
We all play the exact same game, except that there are more obstacles if you're an outcast. Which is fine, but I'd prefer it if the challenges are IC.
All these OoC hinderances are only detrimental to the RP experience and incredibly time consuming, taking away from the fun aspects of the game.


And your explanation there matches the definition of any bank or storage area in existance, that's why you typically have guards in place. And vaults.
I still fail to see why a caliban would have any smaller pockets than the dirt poor civilisation of Barovia. We don't even have to cough up any taxes.

[Miuo]

A drain bank is not much different from a village bank which would also be a target. And likely a much easier one as they would be protected by human men who are likely ill trained. While those of the drain fight tooth and claw/hoof/nail/hook hand/etc to survive. Honestly i dont think anyone of the drain would tempt to rob the "bank",

1) Guards
2) Residence
3) Drain Boss

Not exactly intelligent to piss all three groups off for some coin that will likely cost your life.

[Feronius]

Meet Gol, the Doorkeeper. Not to mention the presence of Big Bronkus and Hoth.

[Legion XXI]

Everyone keeps claiming all this is OOC, and you guys are using the word way too freely and incorrectly, in my opinion.

OOC stands for Out Of Character, and is commonly used to refer to actions that your character would NEVER do no matter what, and it is completely wrong for that character to do these actions.  Example - A paladin walks into a church, pulls out two flintlocks, and says "ding-dong" as he blows the congregation away without any prior RP leading to actions like that.

Having citizens deny service to a horned, twisted, obviously evil character?  Not ooc.  No fix needed.  Sorry, but Barovians just don't like calibans.
Having to use the only friendly cleric faction in all of barovia to raise your caliban buddies?  Not ooc.  Maybe annoying, maybe very risky, maybe not ideal and you are not expected to ENJOY  it, but if your character wants that body to be alive again, he's going to suck it up and use that ML cleric.  It's not Out Of Character for him to go to extreme measures to get that body alive.

HOWEVER - If what you are trying to say is that your character actually would never use that cleric no matter what the circumstances are....then YOU as a player are being untrue to your concept and are in fact acting oocly.  That's something you should look at yourself and take steps to fix, as it's not ok to engage in that kind of behavior.


I don't think it's fair for people to go on the forums and be all "Every twist who uses the ML faction is being OOC and Cheesing", then secretly do it themselves but "feel bad about it".  I've seen caliban walk into the temple and type  "//Not really here, just doing a raise"   Which is just a pathetic attempt all around.  It's not "OOC challenges" that you are facing, its totally IC, reasonable challenges that can quite easily be overcome if you are willing to put effort into what you do.  Is it harder?  Yeah.  But that's what you are asking for by basing your outcast in the drain.



If you ignored everything above, at least read this part!

You are allowed to hire topsiders to buy you stuff from stores you can't access, btw.    

Oh, or here's a crazy idea...   Someone invest in CHA and influence, and play a caliban who can disguise himself and pass off as harmless enough to use the stores/turn in bounties in barovia!  The player of that character would be utterly rich and universally loved among caliban just charging 10% of all coin that changes hands through him for his services that he would have a monopoly on.

[edarsenik]

Well in my opinion the calibans would have little use for tons of coin IC, theyd hunt for food and drink and the bad ones would steal what they wanted, again having a ton of coin would be a liability in their world... Just like if youre hanging on skid row with a ton of cash in your pocket... Its just not realistic... They should be the poorest of the poor.. Also, yeah in real life we have guards and safes and whatnot keeping money safe... But were talking medieval times here.... they dont have the level of security we have.. IC though the few guarding the bank would have to sleep at some point, people rob banks still in the 21st century, so come on... Its completly possible for some evil mage to stop time or whatever and get into the bank... its also in a location that you wouldnt have to do much to get in there, most of the patrons at hoths wouldnt even see whats happening... you only have to take care of Gol, most likely a dumbass {dont know his int, just a guess...] And the banker...  a group of outcast Scum could easily over power the two of them and get into the vault... mix in a few high level rouges and they wouldnt even know what hit them, IC of course im sure Mechanically theyre tough as nails... But still its silly to think that the drains bank is safe.... IC and OOC, its in a very vulnerable spot, realistically it should be with the boss in the back, and again saying they all fight tooth and nail ect ect for the drain is a little OOC in my mind, most of the "shady patrons' would probably love a crack at the safe and would jump on the chance.......And again IC, youre really going to hand over all your gold to the little creep drooling behind the bars? Most wouldnt trust him as far as they could throw him.. I know what it means to be an outcast...  leave Barovia.. Its supposed to be hell for outcasts... not home base... the mist camp has a few crafting stations outcasts can use.... go theyre once youre high enough level to leave...

[dutchy]

A drain bank is not much different from a village bank which would also be a target. And likely a much easier one as they would be protected by human men who are likely ill trained. While those of the drain fight tooth and claw/hoof/nail/hook hand/etc to survive. Honestly i dont think anyone of the drain would tempt to rob the "bank",

1) Guards
2) Residence
3) Drain Boss

Not exactly intelligent to piss all three groups off for some coin that will likely cost your life.

village has a vault where the burgobi.....mistress stores hertax collection, village has no bank it has no money either lol poorest folks in barovia are those in the village i think.

[ethinos]

You do realise the only difference between outcasts and everyone else is a number on their OCR?
We all play the exact same game, except that there are more obstacles if you're an outcast. Which is fine, but I'd prefer it if the challenges are IC.
All these OoC hinderances are only detrimental to the RP experience and incredibly time consuming, taking away from the fun aspects of the game.

I don't think OCR is the only difference between playing an outcast versus anyone else. Your roleplay is going to be very different and so is pretty much your whole existance. Being 'cast out' means you aren't going to have the same options available to you. All of these 'OOC hindrances' all actually have very IN CHARACTER reasons for why they exist. If you think playing an outcast is a nuisance, maybe you shouldn't be playing an outcast.

[edarsenik]

HOWEVER - If what you are trying to say is that your character actually would never use that cleric no matter what the circumstances are....then YOU as a player are being untrue to your concept and are in fact acting oocly.  That's something you should look at yourself and take steps to fix, as it's not ok to engage in that kind of behavior.

I disagree, its not the cleric thats OOC , its the setting.... Having to go to the Morninglord churches in barovia to raise your character when, IC you have never steped foot in the church and avoid it, and the 20 something adventures who constantly hang out there IS OOC..... so yeah... Theyre should be a place where outcasts and whatnot can raise the dead IC and not breaking the immersion.....

[Miuo]

Just because it is meant to be "hard" does not mean a group or civilization does not advance -ever-. There have been various factions who have come and gone. Leaving behind who knows what. And leather working isnt that far fetched. Because how else to the people cloth them selves other then the stitching the few bits of clothing they do get with the skinned rats and such they catch.

Leather working is -entirely- plausible, even a bit more then herbalism. Since it takes some measure of intelligence to create such concoctions when leather working and sewing was something practiced even by early civilizations.

There are plenty of things to make life difficult, but using "your a outcast, so tough luck" is not a fair answer. This would be quite similar to the drain offering goods ans services only obtained there and telling everyone else tough luck your not a outcast so you cant have it. If we did someone would surely make a post about it and people would be demanding it be made available to everyone as well. The things asked for are minor, plausable and with in reason. They would also offer more use for the drain and more reason for people togather there. I fail to see how these things are not reason enough to allow such. Other then the presented reason "Your outcasts, sucks to be you".

[ethinos]

I disagree, its not the cleric thats OOC , its the setting.... Having to go to the Morninglord churches in barovia to raise your character when, IC you have never steped foot in the church and avoid it, and the 20 something adventures who constantly hang out there IS OOC..... so yeah... Theyre should be a place where outcasts and whatnot can raise the dead IC and not breaking the immersion.....

Go to Dvergeheim then. I think there are other NPC priests in the module that raise too. Or better yet, find a PC cleric (since they are a lot of them). Instead of a cleric in the Drain, I'd prefer to see the Mad Dok get new abilities that mimic priest powers. I've always felt him to be more interesting than your bland cleric type NPC.

[Legion XXI]

HOWEVER - If what you are trying to say is that your character actually would never use that cleric no matter what the circumstances are....then YOU as a player are being untrue to your concept and are in fact acting oocly.  That's something you should look at yourself and take steps to fix, as it's not ok to engage in that kind of behavior.

I disagree, its not the cleric thats OOC , its the setting.... Having to go to the Morninglord churches in barovia to raise your character when, IC you have never steped foot in the church and avoid it, and the 20 something adventures who constantly hang out there IS OOC..... so yeah... Theyre should be a place where outcasts and whatnot can raise the dead IC and not breaking the immersion.....

I didn't say anything about a cleric being ooc.

And look at what I'm saying.  What I'm telling you is that if you think you are being ooc, then stop it.  Find an item/PC cleric of another faction to raise you.  BUT MOST CALIBAN would want to revive their dead comrades, and it's not hard to put 2 and 2 together and go  "Hrmm, a temple!  HRMMM  PREIST GO IN AND OUT...   HRMM-MMM, perhaps can bring friend to life for gold-moneys!"  And then you hobble your way on up there as soon as it gets dark and give it a try!  If you are scared, maybe use some of the mid to higher higher level caliban to escort you.  Or just be ready to run at the first sign of danger.  Most players are not just going to auto-hostile and wtfpwn you if you explain that you just want to revive someone and then GTFO to the drain.  But no.  Instead all the caliban players want to RP being the "Biggest caliban ever" and act all tough, so it leads to them getting smacked around. 


In regards to society down there not advancing.... one of the major themes of barovia as a whole is stagnation.  And the drain is like the crap end of one of the most backwoods places.  Maybe instead of mastering every craft from the drain, you could just purchase the goods you want from people?  9/10 PC merchants are not going to turn away money from a customer.  If they do, just pay someone to make the purchase for you!  If none of that appeals to you, then feel free to run out to one of the non-barovian crafting places.  I have a lvl 4 character who has run from Vallaki to the mist camp about 4 times now and only died once (And that time was totally my own fault).  I did not use any special items, boats, potions, or anything.  It's not hard, you just go in the daytime and sprint through the ogre map while they are buffing.

Also, connections.  Like 80% of every caliban problem can be solved by just getting a friend who does not have 16+ OCR to do your storage and stuff for you.  It's inconvenient, but that comes with the territory.

[edarsenik]

I'd prefer to see the Mad Dok get new abilities that mimic priest powers. I've always felt him to be more interesting than your bland cleric type NPC.

This would be perfect... Have him try to electrocute the body or something.. maybe even have a small failure rate to go with the pain in the ass outcasts are to play....

Again with Dvergeheim its just immersion breaking... Why the hell would a caliban that would otherwise never set foot in there go to be rezed.... its just absurd...

[Feronius]

I've actually approached and asked (in a possibly intimidating manner) people to hand in bounties for me. Even used them as currency.
But it's not exactly a solution, neither is rolling a completely cha-based caliban. Isn't that the kind of character DMs (and PCs) frown upon?
Those are all extremely inconvenient and time consuming solutions that are fun to try once, but get extremely tedious, incredibly quick.



And I know what OoC stands for. I do not think many outcasts would have their character turn to the Morninglord to raise the dead.
Thus I call it OoC. But since it is the only means accessible to most, it forces you to compromise your RP whether it is In Character or not.
Perhaps it can't be claimed as purely OoC, but it's not exactly IC either. (Assuming your definition of that term is equally strict.)

The thing is, from an IC point of view the Drain would strive to be self-sufficient, since they're cast out of society and forced to.
So ICly the Drain would most likely already have set up their own storage area, banking system, merchants, security and so on.
And while part of these things are already represented in-game, some aren't. Even though they realistically should be there.

But I'm unsure why I still bother explaining all this, when your next reply will simply tell me to go RP the storage area NPC myself. Whoo... fun?
Or to rely on another PC. Because relying on other players for everything (banking, storage, buying, selling, bounties, ressurecting, etc.) Is realistic?

[ethinos]

Again with Dvergeheim its just immersion breaking... Why the hell would a caliban that would otherwise never set foot in there go to be rezed.... its just absurd...

Why would it be immersion breaking? Dvergeheim and Degannwy are two settlements that don't shun calibans and freaks outright. My caliban actually helped save Dvergeheim and his king (during a DM quest) from terrors below. There is no reason that being outcast from Vallaki means that you can only reside in the sewers. If you choose not to ever frequent Dvergeheim, then that is simply a roleplaying option lost to you.

[Miuo]

No one said anything about the drain getting every craft there. . . .We talked about just adding leather working as it made logical sense for them to have such. .

[edarsenik]

I didn't say anything about a cleric being ooc.

And look at what I'm saying.  What I'm telling you is that if you think you are being ooc, then stop it.

I wasnt saying you said the cleric was OOC, just that for me personally its not, just the setting where it is.......

Ive never had to raise my Caliban (yet) so Im just saying that for me personally its just sad that the only place to go is the church that ive never stepped foot in yet.... IC I wouldnt  even know they could bring the dead back... so its immersion breaking and OOC to even consider it is all.... Its bound to happen eventually Im just pist there isnt an alternative... hahaha  

[Feronius]

Why would it be immersion breaking? Dvergeheim and Degannwy are two settlements that don't shun calibans and freaks outright.

Uhm, I believe they actually do shun at least caliban, etc. They just don't attack on sight. Mechanics can't take everything into account.
It seems highly unlikely that either of them would allow caliban or tieflings into their homes to craft and aid bringing them back to life.

[edarsenik]

Why would it be immersion breaking? Dvergeheim and Degannwy are two settlements that don't shun calibans and freaks outright. My caliban actually helped save Dvergeheim and his king (during a DM quest) from terrors below. There is no reason that being outcast from Vallaki means that you can only reside in the sewers. If you choose not to ever frequent Dvergeheim, then that is simply a roleplaying option lost to you.

Not as a whole, just at this point in the characters story.... Ive never even been there IC so again, same as the church how would I even know where it is, or that they can do such magic there haha