Author Topic: Languages & PoTM  (Read 25330 times)

Bluebomber4evr

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2013, 07:02:52 PM »
Well the entire Shadow Lands just seem silly, if you ask me.  :roll:
Are you talking about the Shadow Rift or the Nightmare Lands? There's no such place as "the Shadow Lands"

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Elfric

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2013, 07:11:03 PM »
Well the entire Shadow Lands just seem silly, if you ask me.  :roll:
Are you talking about the Shadow Rift or the Nightmare Lands? There's no such place as "the Shadow Lands"
>_< Mind stuck on Star Wars, sorry! Shadow Rift.

"You left the campfire back in the field. The entire grass field is on fire. Smokey the Bear is on the edge of the field, on his knees, sobbing into his hands."

Bluebomber4evr

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2013, 07:24:53 PM »
Well the entire Shadow Lands just seem silly, if you ask me.  :roll:
Are you talking about the Shadow Rift or the Nightmare Lands? There's no such place as "the Shadow Lands"
>_< Mind stuck on Star Wars, sorry! Shadow Rift.
Well, that doesn't have anything to do with the Abber Nomads, they live in the Nightmare Lands :P

The Shadow Rift is based on the Celtic Otherworld myths, particularly those of the Irish such as Tνr na nΣg, and thus full of faerie creatures which are a very large part of Gaelic mythology and also the inspiration for Halloween. But this is very off-topic.

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Elfric

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2013, 07:29:40 PM »
Deeeeeeerp.... I meant the Nightmare lands, I'm out of it from being gone for so long.  :oops:

"You left the campfire back in the field. The entire grass field is on fire. Smokey the Bear is on the edge of the field, on his knees, sobbing into his hands."

Paragonville

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #54 on: May 13, 2013, 10:21:55 PM »
Deeeeeeerp.... I meant the Nightmare lands, I'm out of it from being gone for so long.  :oops:

The Nightmare Lands is awesome!  Whatsamattawidyou

Dire Corby

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #55 on: May 14, 2013, 10:58:02 AM »
The important part is to avoid cheesing.

I believe the principle for languages is:

 :arrow: Starting languages = Common + one racial language + bonus languages (additional number of languages is equal to your starting Intelligence modifier. Make this one believable as it is rare for a level 2 to know Abyssal/Draconic/more obscure languages)
 :arrow: Capacity for learning additional languages = Intelligence modifier - already learned bonus languages

One should roleplay learning a language land make the process believable.
Ravenloft characters get their domain's primary language(s) for free as well.

So, a native of Dementlieu would get both High and Low Mordentish for free?  Based on what I was reading I got the impression that people of that land speak a blend of the two languages.

Elfric

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #56 on: May 14, 2013, 11:01:33 AM »
Dementlieu's primary language is High Mordentish, even the commoners speak high. Low Mordentish is the primary of Mordent.

"You left the campfire back in the field. The entire grass field is on fire. Smokey the Bear is on the edge of the field, on his knees, sobbing into his hands."

Exordium

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #57 on: May 14, 2013, 12:07:17 PM »
It is? If I recall right, Gazetteer just says "Mordentish" and notes that while the nobles distinct themselves from the commoners by using some words of their own, the words are fully intelligeble to commoners too. Hence I had thought that it's a mix of Low and High that they speak.

Bluebomber4evr

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #58 on: May 14, 2013, 12:20:01 PM »
The people of Mordent speak Low and High Mordentish equally.

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Exordium

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #59 on: May 14, 2013, 12:24:32 PM »
The people of Mordent speak Low and High Mordentish equally.

Would marking the language as [Mordentish] then be the most accurate choice, if assuming that the speaker is not a noble who wanted to distinguish in which case it might be [High Mordentish] instead?

dark_majico

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #60 on: May 14, 2013, 12:45:18 PM »
Pretty much comes down to Players needing to seek teachers for the various languages, Balok, Elven, Hin, Dwarven, or gnomish.
Id rather not see a player that rps his character as only holding conversation with his hin friends, or his elven friends, blah blah blah, you get the picture, and then say they know and speak Balok or some other language. I think its very cheesy and it breaks immersion of the setting, racial basis, and nationality.

I will point out again, that it is highly unlikely that Barovians wont teach their language or anything else to a nonbarovian, unless they absolutely like the person, which is again unlikely, youd need to find a teacher that is willing, with a few years of practice, or youre just a stupidly insane smart person, but then itd pretty much take almost the same amount of time and a Teacher.

That's a double negative, what you should have said was... 'I will point out again, that it is highly unlikely that Barovians would teach their language or anything else to a none barovian...'. It's also very generalising, just as generalising as saying all Germans are obsessed with punctuality. I can see plenty of the average commoner in Barovia talking to a foreigner.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 12:48:16 PM by dark_majico »

Bluebomber4evr

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #61 on: May 14, 2013, 12:52:18 PM »
The people of Mordent speak Low and High Mordentish equally.

Would marking the language as [Mordentish] then be the most accurate choice, if assuming that the speaker is not a noble who wanted to distinguish in which case it might be [High Mordentish] instead?
Even the nobles of Mordent speak both languages, and they are actually 2 separate languages mechanically

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Badelaire

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #62 on: May 14, 2013, 01:28:40 PM »
Noticed the gumpf on Invidia up there, place always reminded me of the way the Corsicans were portrayed in the Asterix books with their never-ending family vendettas:



The word invidia itself alludes to jealousy and hostility.

Elfric

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #63 on: May 14, 2013, 02:11:17 PM »
Bloody Invidians.

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Sorrow00

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #64 on: May 14, 2013, 02:33:16 PM »
Pretty much comes down to Players needing to seek teachers for the various languages, Balok, Elven, Hin, Dwarven, or gnomish.
Id rather not see a player that rps his character as only holding conversation with his hin friends, or his elven friends, blah blah blah, you get the picture, and then say they know and speak Balok or some other language. I think its very cheesy and it breaks immersion of the setting, racial basis, and nationality.

I will point out again, that it is highly unlikely that Barovians wont teach their language or anything else to a nonbarovian, unless they absolutely like the person, which is again unlikely, youd need to find a teacher that is willing, with a few years of practice, or youre just a stupidly insane smart person, but then itd pretty much take almost the same amount of time and a Teacher.

That's a double negative, what you should have said was... 'I will point out again, that it is highly unlikely that Barovians would teach their language or anything else to a none barovian...'. It's also very generalising, just as generalising as saying all Germans are obsessed with punctuality. I can see plenty of the average commoner in Barovia talking to a foreigner.
If this is the case, i dont think they be speaking Balok to a foreigner, instead, using the common tongue/trade language, which i will point out , youre probably wrong, but the thing i dont see is DMs, CC and or Soren/Blue calling me out on this, do any of you? This isnt just about Barovians/Balok, were talking of each language, and avoiding Cheesing, but as some people have previously stated in the first few posts of this thread, i should just worry about myself and have fun, its kinda hard to when theres people out there that like to cheese and be assholes, anyhow.

HellsPanda

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #65 on: May 14, 2013, 02:35:14 PM »
Balok is one of the most widely known languages of the Core

Bluebomber4evr

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #66 on: May 14, 2013, 05:03:38 PM »
Noticed the gumpf on Invidia up there, place always reminded me of the way the Corsicans were portrayed in the Asterix books with their never-ending family vendettas:



The word invidia itself alludes to jealousy and hostility.
I don't believe the Ravenloft authors were specifically using Asterix as their inspiration for the domain, but I bet they used the same folktales as a base.

And good catch on the name's meaning in Latin

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Badelaire

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #67 on: May 15, 2013, 12:42:05 AM »
And not forgetting DEMENTlieu. Hurr, puns.

dark_majico

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #68 on: May 15, 2013, 04:20:44 AM »
Pretty much comes down to Players needing to seek teachers for the various languages, Balok, Elven, Hin, Dwarven, or gnomish.
Id rather not see a player that rps his character as only holding conversation with his hin friends, or his elven friends, blah blah blah, you get the picture, and then say they know and speak Balok or some other language. I think its very cheesy and it breaks immersion of the setting, racial basis, and nationality.

I will point out again, that it is highly unlikely that Barovians wont teach their language or anything else to a nonbarovian, unless they absolutely like the person, which is again unlikely, youd need to find a teacher that is willing, with a few years of practice, or youre just a stupidly insane smart person, but then itd pretty much take almost the same amount of time and a Teacher.

That's a double negative, what you should have said was... 'I will point out again, that it is highly unlikely that Barovians would teach their language or anything else to a none barovian...'. It's also very generalising, just as generalising as saying all Germans are obsessed with punctuality. I can see plenty of the average commoner in Barovia talking to a foreigner.
If this is the case, i dont think they be speaking Balok to a foreigner, instead, using the common tongue/trade language, which i will point out , youre probably wrong, but the thing i dont see is DMs, CC and or Soren/Blue calling me out on this, do any of you? This isnt just about Barovians/Balok, were talking of each language, and avoiding Cheesing, but as some people have previously stated in the first few posts of this thread, i should just worry about myself and have fun, its kinda hard to when theres people out there that like to cheese and be assholes, anyhow.

A response to this would be great from the staff.

Exordium

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #69 on: May 15, 2013, 04:49:06 AM »
Pretty much comes down to Players needing to seek teachers for the various languages, Balok, Elven, Hin, Dwarven, or gnomish.
Id rather not see a player that rps his character as only holding conversation with his hin friends, or his elven friends, blah blah blah, you get the picture, and then say they know and speak Balok or some other language. I think its very cheesy and it breaks immersion of the setting, racial basis, and nationality.

I will point out again, that it is highly unlikely that Barovians wont teach their language or anything else to a nonbarovian, unless they absolutely like the person, which is again unlikely, youd need to find a teacher that is willing, with a few years of practice, or youre just a stupidly insane smart person, but then itd pretty much take almost the same amount of time and a Teacher.

That's a double negative, what you should have said was... 'I will point out again, that it is highly unlikely that Barovians would teach their language or anything else to a none barovian...'. It's also very generalising, just as generalising as saying all Germans are obsessed with punctuality. I can see plenty of the average commoner in Barovia talking to a foreigner.
If this is the case, i dont think they be speaking Balok to a foreigner, instead, using the common tongue/trade language, which i will point out , youre probably wrong, but the thing i dont see is DMs, CC and or Soren/Blue calling me out on this, do any of you? This isnt just about Barovians/Balok, were talking of each language, and avoiding Cheesing, but as some people have previously stated in the first few posts of this thread, i should just worry about myself and have fun, its kinda hard to when theres people out there that like to cheese and be assholes, anyhow.

A response to this would be great from the staff.

Response to what? There's no official ruling on learning languages, but as usual, players are expected to contribute positively to the common stories and to respect each other's RP. I feel that in order to do so, one wouldn't want to magically know every language there is.

To underline the canon stuff:

Balok is quite possibly the most wide-spread language in the Core. It's the main language of several domains and secondary in many more. Someone arriving to Barovia from somewhere else of the Core with moderately good intelligence isn't all so unlikely to speak Balok.

In most settings, including FR, yes, it would be very uncommon (pun intended!) for an elf or a dwarf to teach their native language to an outsider. It's not, though, impossible that say, a human did know one or two of those languages at the time of being created as a character.

There is an alternative way to learn languages in Ravenloft that doesn't require a teacher. Can't quite remember how it went, but something akin to when one's immersed to a society with a language he doesn't know, he gets a Intelligence check every half a year at DC 25 - 1/every half year he has spent in the domain to learn the language.. Or something, I have terrible memory. :P In any case, it still requires a "free" intelligence modifier slot.

So, to sum it up: There's no hard-and-fast rule on learning languages. But I'd certainly consider it respectful toward's other's RP to think a moment about what languages one's character can realistically know, set constraints on him, and try to find teachers if he does want to learn some language. And of course, going obviously too far might be called out by DMs.

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #70 on: May 15, 2013, 05:04:22 AM »
If this is the case, i dont think they be speaking Balok to a foreigner, instead, using the common tongue/trade language, which i will point out , youre probably wrong, but the thing i dont see is DMs, CC and or Soren/Blue calling me out on this, do any of you? This isnt just about Barovians/Balok, were talking of each language, and avoiding Cheesing, but as some people have previously stated in the first few posts of this thread, i should just worry about myself and have fun, its kinda hard to when theres people out there that like to cheese and be assholes, anyhow.

One thing I want to point out which I haven't seen come up in this thread.... Unless I'm -vastly- mistaken... The land of mists has no common tongue that would be used for trade. The server probably only has that for two reason, to make playing an outlander simpler to RP, and to stop confusing people who just assumed one would exist. But it is not actually rooted in the books. So citing that as an argument against Balok being known is rather irrelevant

Balok, Mordentish, and Vaasi (not too sure about Vaasi) are the trade tongues of the core. I really don't understand why people get THAT uptight about Balok being known.

dark_majico

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #71 on: May 15, 2013, 05:05:35 AM »
Pretty much comes down to Players needing to seek teachers for the various languages, Balok, Elven, Hin, Dwarven, or gnomish.
Id rather not see a player that rps his character as only holding conversation with his hin friends, or his elven friends, blah blah blah, you get the picture, and then say they know and speak Balok or some other language. I think its very cheesy and it breaks immersion of the setting, racial basis, and nationality.

I will point out again, that it is highly unlikely that Barovians wont teach their language or anything else to a nonbarovian, unless they absolutely like the person, which is again unlikely, youd need to find a teacher that is willing, with a few years of practice, or youre just a stupidly insane smart person, but then itd pretty much take almost the same amount of time and a Teacher.

That's a double negative, what you should have said was... 'I will point out again, that it is highly unlikely that Barovians would teach their language or anything else to a none barovian...'. It's also very generalising, just as generalising as saying all Germans are obsessed with punctuality. I can see plenty of the average commoner in Barovia talking to a foreigner.
If this is the case, i dont think they be speaking Balok to a foreigner, instead, using the common tongue/trade language, which i will point out , youre probably wrong, but the thing i dont see is DMs, CC and or Soren/Blue calling me out on this, do any of you? This isnt just about Barovians/Balok, were talking of each language, and avoiding Cheesing, but as some people have previously stated in the first few posts of this thread, i should just worry about myself and have fun, its kinda hard to when theres people out there that like to cheese and be assholes, anyhow.

A response to this would be great from the staff.

Response to what? There's no official ruling on learning languages, but as usual, players are expected to contribute positively to the common stories and to respect each other's RP. I feel that in order to do so, one wouldn't want to magically know every language there is.

To underline the canon stuff:

Balok is quite possibly the most wide-spread language in the Core. It's the main language of several domains and secondary in many more. Someone arriving to Barovia from somewhere else of the Core with moderately good intelligence isn't all so unlikely to speak Balok.

In most settings, including FR, yes, it would be very uncommon (pun intended!) for an elf or a dwarf to teach their native language to an outsider. It's not, though, impossible that say, a human did know one or two of those languages at the time of being created as a character.

There is an alternative way to learn languages in Ravenloft that doesn't require a teacher. Can't quite remember how it went, but something akin to when one's immersed to a society with a language he doesn't know, he gets a Intelligence check every half a year at DC 25 - 1/every half year he has spent in the domain to learn the language.. Or something, I have terrible memory. :P In any case, it still requires a "free" intelligence modifier slot.

So, to sum it up: There's no hard-and-fast rule on learning languages. But I'd certainly consider it respectful toward's other's RP to think a moment about what languages one's character can realistically know, set constraints on him, and try to find teachers if he does want to learn some language. And of course, going obviously too far might be called out by DMs.

Exactly that. As I said.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 05:13:31 AM by dark_majico »

HellsPanda

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #72 on: May 15, 2013, 05:10:20 AM »
The common tongue is really a language that only exists to allow PCs to talk with each other, and merchants in all DnD games.

But Balok is by far the most common tongue in the Core, followed by Vaasi and then the mordentish ones in the Core

Dread

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #73 on: May 15, 2013, 05:19:49 AM »
I think it has to do with a desire amongst players to be snarky in-character within the Balok tongue, and those same players get their knickers in a twist whenever Balok is spoken among those not native to Barovia, even when it would make sense for the character to know Balok for one reason or another.

An example of this that I bore witness to was a Richemuloise character knowing Balok; Richemulot is right next to Borca, and the country is more or less a melting pot, so it made sense for the character to know the language, yet in tells the players of Barovian natives pitched a fit, because there was no way that they could have known the language and they're cheesing and blah blah blah blah blah blah...

Not to say there aren't instances of players just making up the knowing of languages sometimes, but I think it's all way more overblown than most players think.

Geiger

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Re: Languages & PoTM
« Reply #74 on: May 15, 2013, 06:01:31 AM »
Quote
   * Akiri (Har’akir) – Egyptian
    * Avergnite (Staunton Bluffs) – Probably English
    * Balok – Romanian
    * Darkonese – Latin
    * Dwarven – Norse
    * Elven – Welsh
    * Falkovnian – German
    * Forfarian (Forlorn) – Gaelic (Scottish)
    * Gnomish – Greek/ Latin
    * Heldannic (Graben Island, Nocturnal Sea) – Nordic
    * Lamordian – Plautdietsch
    * Luktar – Hungarian
    * Mordentish, High – French
    * Mordentish, Low – Anglo-Saxon
    * Patterna – any and all
    * Pazarian – Arabic
    * Rajian (Sri Raji) – Hindi
    * Souragnien - Cajun
    * Tepestani (Tepest) – Gaelic (Irish)
    * Vaasi – Nowegian/ Danish
    * Vos (Vorostokov) – Russian

Closes you get to Poland is Falkovia, and Vorostokov. The dark lord of Vos is basically a Cossack.
Thought Invidia was based on the Poles of the late 1400s?
They're basically that - but they kind of have a vibe about the Spanish for some reason here.

Balok regardless of country is generic slavic/romanian romance/balkans.
Er no. Invidia is inspired by Italy (this has been stated by the people who wrote the published books), as is Borca. We gave Invidia more of a Spanish flair to differentiate it more from Borca.

Vorostokov is inspired by Russia. Falkovnia is primarily based on Germany, although the darklord/ruler is basically Vlad the Impaler.

The closest to Poland would be Nova Vaasa, although their language is nothing like Polish.

I meant this for the names, sorry, was sleepy when I wrote that. I based this on Invidian names being inspired via Polish. All of the Balok speaking countries essentially have a different Slavic language + Romanian/Sometimes Italian. Barovia's is Serbian, Invidia's is Polish/Ukrainian, and I think Borca's was Croatian.

"culturally" both invidia and borca seem to be based on Italy/Spain, but linguistically (at least namewise) it seems they're all poles/ukrainians and croats + italiano/andor romanian. lol.

I'd agree with you about Nova Vaasa being closest culturally with Poland because of all the horses and or the Rus (ie, Medieval Ukraine).

Also - Vechorite isn't included on that list but isn't it also inspired via Latin? Probably has something to do with Az and Vechor coming from the same "world".
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 06:09:04 AM by Geiger »