Author Topic: Lizuca and Horatiu.  (Read 4754 times)

DM Anecdote

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2013, 08:34:49 AM »
At least that would encourage partying...
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Mcskinns

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2013, 08:45:37 AM »
While I can honestly say I cannot recall the last time I drank a morninglord potion I can remember that they were significantly better than the common cure Light potion.  And since herbalism requires 2 herbs to produce something of similar potency(roughly on average I believe, correct me if I'm wrong)  and while 1 of the herbs grows 3/4 of the year in decent quantity finding a second in any season other than spring requires farming a crypt.  It stands to reason players will seek a crypt that can be pushed through quickly and that yeilds more than 1-4 grave herbs of the desired type.  The fact they can get free potions on top of that simply means more return on their invested time and efforts.

Perhaps the NPC can be altered to accept the knuckles in return for services instead something along the lines of...
Cure Light - 5 knuckles
Cure Moderate - 10 knuckles
Cure Serious - 15 knuckles
Cure Critical - 20 knuckles

Have her perform 1 free cure light for anyone per cycle of time, and charge for second/third etc cures with knuckles.  


Or simply include a place outside Barovia that yields some form of healing potion supply, or better yet a minor regeneration potion that does healing over time as opposed to immediate healing.  Just something that would give those higher levels a source other than the ML temple for such things.


As for their Over-Powered baddassery, a tweak to AI putting priority on self-buffs over offensive spells would give players a few more rounds to escape once earning their ire.  Hell, would be nice if they were scripted to encourage players to fight by buffing them instead of themselves.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 08:50:08 AM by Mcskinns »



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Aahz

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2013, 03:13:16 PM »
So what I am getting from all of this is A: first  people complain that others do not respect the setting by staying outside at night and disrupting the setting. B: Others start staying inside at night, especially in a place that is "safe" (which makes the most IC sense) and people complain that its boring because others are staying inside at night. C: People also complain that NPCs are too powerful in the safest place on the server to be at night because AMPCs/ MPCs cannot run in an cause havoc.

Conclusion A: Lots of different things have been tried in the past to change the dynamic and the result has been the outskirts and the temple there being as it exists now.

Conclusion B: People are going to complain no matter what others do or refrain from doing.
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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2013, 07:10:23 PM »
Actually, the problem lies in the fact that players are overly reliant upon the ML temple. If people stayed in the ML temple, that would be one thing, but people tended to run outside, fight whatever MPC is there, and run back inside to get healed up, and rush on out. Effectively this means the players act as though their characters are immortal because they effectively are, and they know they only need to succeed in killing an MPC once for it to be gone for good.

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2013, 07:11:40 PM »
I'd say short of a vampire there is nothing stopping an MPC from going into that temple. Beat down all the NPCs inside and be responsible.


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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2013, 07:13:29 PM »
Actually, the problem lies in the fact that players are overly reliant upon the ML temple. If people stayed in the ML temple, that would be one thing, but people tended to run outside, fight whatever MPC is there, and run back inside to get healed up, and rush on out. Effectively this means the players act as though their characters are immortal because they effectively are, and they know they only need to succeed in killing an MPC once for it to be gone for good.

Legit!  Sucks, whenever you ride into town even on evil characters to cause trouble, when you beat people down.  They just run inside before you can knock them down, then come out full healed to  do battle again.

For serious!  It isn't cool.  If you're going to play the hero, expect to face the consequences.  Vice versa, if you're evil.

Apocrypha

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2013, 07:16:04 PM »
I'd say short of a vampire there is nothing stopping an MPC from going into that temple. Beat down all the NPCs inside and be responsible.



While I don't disagree with letting the cards fall as they may and shitstomping NPCs when it is appropriate; it is considered bad form of MPCs.  In spite of the fact that some "Off Duty" time for Lizuca and Horatiu might actually be good for player invincibility.
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Lucadia

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2013, 07:17:37 PM »
Before you knock them down-
Just make the npcs ignore mpcs. Make them overcome fear instead trying kill you. Then players cant hide behide their skirts.

Paragonville

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2013, 07:18:32 PM »
I'd say short of a vampire there is nothing stopping an MPC from going into that temple. Beat down all the NPCs inside and be responsible.



While I don't disagree with letting the cards fall as they may and shitstomping NPCs when it is appropriate; it is considered bad form of MPCs.  In spite of the fact that some "Off Duty" time for Lizuca and Horatiu might actually be good for player invincibility.

The blessing pool already works for only day time.  The Temple should be like the Temple of Osiris, in my opinion.  Have Lizuca go to sleep at night, leave the squishier lightcarriers stick around.  That means no healing for players unless there is a player healer.

Sidhel

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2013, 07:21:00 PM »
I'd say short of a vampire there is nothing stopping an MPC from going into that temple. Beat down all the NPCs inside and be responsible.



They don't let us vampires cause we'd totally kick their butt. :(
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Dread

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2013, 07:47:56 PM »
I mean, at the very least, remove WoF from the host of spells she knows. Anyone who has played a cleric knows that's an instant "I win" button.

Aahz

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2013, 08:00:45 PM »
Actually, the problem lies in the fact that players are overly reliant upon the ML temple. If people stayed in the ML temple, that would be one thing, but people tended to run outside, fight whatever MPC is there, and run back inside to get healed up, and rush on out. Effectively this means the players act as though their characters are immortal because they effectively are, and they know they only need to succeed in killing an MPC once for it to be gone for good.

Legit!  Sucks, whenever you ride into town even on evil characters to cause trouble, when you beat people down.  They just run inside before you can knock them down, then come out full healed to  do battle again.

For serious!  It isn't cool.  If you're going to play the hero, expect to face the consequences.  Vice versa, if you're evil.

The Outskirts was always meant to be a low-level meet-up area and not much more. It's unfortunate that people choose to stay there beyond low levels but there's not much we can do about that (believe me, we've tried).


Anyone else remember that week where some kind of 'evil' killed all the NPCs in the temple and set up shop? Remember how well that worked out?  (HINT:  instead of everyone running into the temple to get healed they ran into the inn, dropped their 10gp and rested to full health and ran back out to join the fight) 

Some problems just do not have any solutions and you have to make the best of what you have. As Blue Said, its not like they have not tried numerous time already. Argue on.
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eyeofpestilence

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2013, 08:16:20 PM »
Easy solution. As an MPC's don't enter the church.

I'm sorry your AMPC came to a quick demise, but IMHO don't nerf the NPC's. Horatiu and Lizuca have been attacked many times, and killed OOC'ly without DM present, or badly wounded IC'ly with DM present. They were upped in power to stop MPC's or high lvl evil PC's from creating havoc in what is meant to be a 'Sanctuary' for lower lvl chars during the night. They are still able to be beaten, but with difficulty.

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2013, 08:38:45 PM »
I wouldn't have a problem with the Sanctuary being its namesake for low-level players, if it were just that - a safe place for rest one's head. Instead it functions more as a place where people attack AMPCs lurking there, can open the doors, skitter back inside, stick their tongues out, and go 'Neener neener neener'.

Honestly, it seems the players will not respect any sort of AMPC/MPC presence in the Outskirts, so you might as well just populate the place with some type of spawns at night. They'll at least respect those.

eyeofpestilence

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2013, 08:52:57 PM »
Honestly, it seems the players will not respect any sort of AMPC/MPC presence in the Outskirts
AMPC/MPC suffer from "See Red Dead". Sadly many players treat MPC's as just another notch in the belt to boast about.

so you might as well just populate the place with some type of spawns at night. They'll at least respect those.
Good suggestion. I think there are some wolf spawns there at night during certain times of the year when Outskirts gets time to reset, but as a hub that's not often and even less frequently do they get a chance to grow.

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Aahz

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2013, 08:57:34 PM »
There are werewolf spawns in a far corner of the outskirts map. I think they only spawn in certain conditions though.
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Mcskinns

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2013, 09:49:32 PM »
Some time back whilst inside the Ladies Rest 'Mother' was hazing and generating a considerable amount of IC fear through the emote command that produces the server message text.  I can only assume to do such she had to be in mist form/invisible/or highly stealthed at the time to pull it off.  Her emotes of noises at the windows, drafts from fireplace etc. really left one feeling cornered and vulnerable should she burst in and openly begin slaughtering the people within.

Something like this, for other MPC types would be helpful, while they cannot normally go unseen into the temple/inns etc, if they could somehow be given a means to send such messages into the attached area, wether via a command used outside and in close proximity to the door (like the [knock] emote) which produces said text to those inside.  It would greatly enhance the MPC's ability to taunt and lure people into the open without needing to enter said zones directly.  Heck, it believe it should  be possibele to use a power/item and target a door, call on the Waypoint it leads to and there generate a temporary "voice" object that can broadcast their emotes.

MPC's basically thrive on PC interaction, but smart PC's will avoid situations that put them in an MPC's path.  Inventing methods to bring people out into the night more frequently, and preferrably farther than a few steps from safety is where we can benefit most.  Perhaps a herb node that spawns only at night in certain zones that promotes travel at night for those who desire such. I'm sure there are numerous great ideas, heck add a small dungeon somewhere a half dozen zones away from the outskirts that only has spawns in the night, making it worthless to visit by day for any form of XP or Loot.




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Endlessorrow

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2013, 09:57:51 PM »
  Perhaps make the doors to the temple and the ladies rest lockable by mpcs and bullies with
Open lock skill. The dc set at 1 this will atleast slow down the prey.
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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2013, 12:18:34 AM »
Just dont go into the Temple maybe?

It just seems silly to me that it would be a good idea to send a monster into a temple that has 3 armed guards and a priest who are there to protect people from dangerous monsters.

Its not that the NPC's are pwerfull its that you pick the wrong place to try get RP.
Ladies rest has only one dude who will hit things why not try ravage there instead?

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FullMoon

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2013, 01:21:18 AM »
Part of the problem would seem to be that every area around the outskirts has werewolves which hems in the players at night. Today myself and two companions encountered a player vampire not far from the ML Church. She presented us with the situation her carriage had broken a wheel and the driver was hurt (great rp by the way). We of course knew oocly this was probably an MPC but as characters we suspended our disbelief and two of us went to check on the driver leaving the third alone with a monster. An ideal horror situation I would say except the two of us that went to check on the imaginary driver got pushed back by werewolves and stumbled on the scene of a feeding in progress. This probably cut the scene short.

 The ML church may not be the problem, it may be the expectation that this is the only area everyone below a certain level are stuck which leads others there by association. The overuse of werewolves is self defeating. It desensitizes players to horror once they can kill them and they lock players into a small part of the server. Werewolves should be less common but much more powerful, able to give a lvl 20 a run for their money. This way people might roam a bit further away from the Temple for horror scenes but if too far away they would run the risk of a sure death encounter. This would give MPC's a little more room for their horror scenes while making Old Night more realistic and fatal.

Locking down Vallaki and the overuse of wererats there is similar. Again you are desensitized to their horror because they are so numerous as to be unrealistic, but also people not being able to walk the streets without a lot of hassels takes away an excellent setting for MPC's to hunt. Horror may be more profound if players are lured into a false sense of security rather than using monsters as movement barriers which you eventually outgrow.

I would suggest making 2 areas in every direction from the outskirts npc monster free and liimit wererats to one or two in Vallaki each night but make them uber. This would cause players too wander a little bit, maybe run to the bank, go to Murnu's or try their luck at night time herb gathering giving the MPC's a hunting ground that is not right beside the healing machine that needs to be in ML Temple.

~Full Moon
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 01:24:56 AM by FullMoon »

Valiant_Destiny

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2013, 05:35:05 AM »
Part of the problem would seem to be that every area around the outskirts has werewolves which hems in the players at night. Today myself and two companions encountered a player vampire not far from the ML Church. She presented us with the situation her carriage had broken a wheel and the driver was hurt (great rp by the way). We of course knew oocly this was probably an MPC but as characters we suspended our disbelief and two of us went to check on the driver leaving the third alone with a monster. An ideal horror situation I would say except the two of us that went to check on the imaginary driver got pushed back by werewolves and stumbled on the scene of a feeding in progress. This probably cut the scene short.

 The ML church may not be the problem, it may be the expectation that this is the only area everyone below a certain level are stuck which leads others there by association. The overuse of werewolves is self defeating. It desensitizes players to horror once they can kill them and they lock players into a small part of the server. Werewolves should be less common but much more powerful, able to give a lvl 20 a run for their money. This way people might roam a bit further away from the Temple for horror scenes but if too far away they would run the risk of a sure death encounter. This would give MPC's a little more room for their horror scenes while making Old Night more realistic and fatal.

Locking down Vallaki and the overuse of wererats there is similar. Again you are desensitized to their horror because they are so numerous as to be unrealistic, but also people not being able to walk the streets without a lot of hassels takes away an excellent setting for MPC's to hunt. Horror may be more profound if players are lured into a false sense of security rather than using monsters as movement barriers which you eventually outgrow.

I would suggest making 2 areas in every direction from the outskirts npc monster free and liimit wererats to one or two in Vallaki each night but make them uber. This would cause players too wander a little bit, maybe run to the bank, go to Murnu's or try their luck at night time herb gathering giving the MPC's a hunting ground that is not right beside the healing machine that needs to be in ML Temple.

~Full Moon

+1 Some good ideas for possible solutions here.

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2013, 09:29:48 AM »
What about lowering the chance rate of spawn to be much lower, giving the desired outcome with little work.

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2013, 10:02:50 AM »
Part of the problem would seem to be that every area around the outskirts has werewolves which hems in the players at night. Today myself and two companions encountered a player vampire not far from the ML Church. She presented us with the situation her carriage had broken a wheel and the driver was hurt (great rp by the way). We of course knew oocly this was probably an MPC but as characters we suspended our disbelief and two of us went to check on the driver leaving the third alone with a monster. An ideal horror situation I would say except the two of us that went to check on the imaginary driver got pushed back by werewolves and stumbled on the scene of a feeding in progress. This probably cut the scene short.

 The ML church may not be the problem, it may be the expectation that this is the only area everyone below a certain level are stuck which leads others there by association. The overuse of werewolves is self defeating. It desensitizes players to horror once they can kill them and they lock players into a small part of the server. Werewolves should be less common but much more powerful, able to give a lvl 20 a run for their money. This way people might roam a bit further away from the Temple for horror scenes but if too far away they would run the risk of a sure death encounter. This would give MPC's a little more room for their horror scenes while making Old Night more realistic and fatal.

Locking down Vallaki and the overuse of wererats there is similar. Again you are desensitized to their horror because they are so numerous as to be unrealistic, but also people not being able to walk the streets without a lot of hassels takes away an excellent setting for MPC's to hunt. Horror may be more profound if players are lured into a false sense of security rather than using monsters as movement barriers which you eventually outgrow.

I would suggest making 2 areas in every direction from the outskirts npc monster free and liimit wererats to one or two in Vallaki each night but make them uber. This would cause players too wander a little bit, maybe run to the bank, go to Murnu's or try their luck at night time herb gathering giving the MPC's a hunting ground that is not right beside the healing machine that needs to be in ML Temple.

~Full Moon

I would be inclined to agreed with you actually.. the overuse of werewolves makes them more like pests than a supernatural horror.

The ideas proposed are not unreasonable but unfortunately would also likely take the Devs a lot of work to revamp the spawns.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 10:04:43 AM by RedwizardD »

dark_majico

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2013, 03:11:35 PM »
Fudge it, why dont we just remove the three NPC's for a week and let chaos reign just to see how it turns out. If people want protection let them haul up in the city at night.
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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2013, 04:28:21 PM »
Fudge it, why dont we just remove the three NPC's for a week and let chaos reign just to see how it turns out. If people want protection let them haul up in the city at night.

I must be nice to not have to worry about finding a safe place after dark.

We're told that to be outside after dark isn't showing proper respect to the setting and that we're to seek safety indoors.  We do so, but because the players that go bump in the night find it to be too safe to those they would prey upon they complain.  Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.  There are plenty of times where people are hanging around outside, casting spells, wildshaping, summoning things and otherwise giving the finger to the setting where I wonder, "Where are the powers of the old night to put some fear and respect into these people" that you could be getting your fill, but it rarely happens.  When it does you see people scatter like roaches, and finally huddle in the church, afraid to go out.  The minor heal and the silly healing potions that do more to put a person at risk because they heal less than the damage they'd likely take with the attack of opportunity it causes are too much for MPCs?  Please, there's a cooldown timer on how often a player can get that massive twenty something point heal, and the potions are a joke unless you manage to get away and suck down a stack or more of them.  And that's for an average player ofthe appropriate level range in the area.  Yeah, if a higher level player with better healing potions is playing peekaboo with the temple I can see that as a problem, but that stems from the fact that soo many higher levels just can't keep themselves from slumming there.  It has nothing to do with the temple, or the guards.  How many people would have tossed in the towel if left to the chaos of not being able to find shelter or being penned up in a city that can barely tolerate outlanders, and is infested with were rats?  For one who plays low level characters on a regular basis I'd say no thank you, and seek other alternatives for my entertainment time.