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Author Topic: Lizuca and Horatiu.  (Read 4753 times)

Dread

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Lizuca and Horatiu.
« on: April 16, 2013, 04:26:24 AM »
So I enter the ML temple with my wereboar AMPC in hybrid form, intentionally looking to stir some people into chasing me down or going on a hunt - the plan was to leave just as quickly as I entered and to encourage players to hunt me down... and Lizuca just uses Word of Faith on me, while Horatiu just tears into me with critical after critical. So said AMPC is dead.

I'm not saying that these NPCs are stupidly powerful for a low-level area like Vallaki, but yes, that is exactly what I am saying, and it seems to be a regular thing amongst players to hide behind their skirts, get healed, run back outside, fight the monster that's there, get healed, run back outside, get healed, run back outside, and so on and so forth, and it's really rather tiresome. It seems to be an ongoing trend.

"Why are you in the Outskirts, you should leave the Outskirts, Vengeful." Believe me, I would, were people to congregate elsewhere. But using @locate over and over and over has shown me very few people every leave the Outskirts once night hits.

I'm not bitter or anything, it's an AMPC and I don't mind when they die, but I do think there are problems needing to be rectified. The power of Lizuca and Horatiu is one.

dark_majico

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2013, 05:36:51 AM »
I was thinking something similar very recently. The outskirts are too safe with Radu, Horatiu, and Lizuca giving free healing potions. That's why the outskirts are the main place to congregate. Not to mention the over farming of the crypts, I've said it before but there aught to be a level cap on who Lizuca will help, if your a mid to high level character you should have to work harder for help and use other resources to get by. If anywhere should be a safe place to hang out it should be inside the city at night in the taverns and hospices, behind city walls with an army barracks close by, I think the city should be the safe haven, with the exception of the streets. The daring or fool hardy folk venturing out of the city into the wilderness when they feel confident. Surely that makes a better story?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 05:41:42 AM by dark_majico »
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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2013, 05:51:51 AM »
"Why are you in the Outskirts, you should leave the Outskirts, Vengeful." Believe me, I would, were people to congregate elsewhere. But using @locate over and over and over has shown me very few people every leave the Outskirts once night hits.

Yep. With the changes to XP and roleplay experience MPCs pretty much have it rough for getting scenes out there. Especially since we can't really do anything in places like the Mist Camp.
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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2013, 07:54:50 AM »
So I enter the ML temple with my wereboar AMPC in hybrid form, intentionally looking to stir some people into chasing me down or going on a hunt - the plan was to leave just as quickly as I entered and to encourage players to hunt me down... and Lizuca just uses Word of Faith on me, while Horatiu just tears into me with critical after critical. So said AMPC is dead.

I'm not saying that these NPCs are stupidly powerful for a low-level area like Vallaki, but yes, that is exactly what I am saying, and it seems to be a regular thing amongst players to hide behind their skirts, get healed, run back outside, fight the monster that's there, get healed, run back outside, get healed, run back outside, and so on and so forth, and it's really rather tiresome. It seems to be an ongoing trend.

"Why are you in the Outskirts, you should leave the Outskirts, Vengeful." Believe me, I would, were people to congregate elsewhere. But using @locate over and over and over has shown me very few people every leave the Outskirts once night hits.

I'm not bitter or anything, it's an AMPC and I don't mind when they die, but I do think there are problems needing to be rectified. The power of Lizuca and Horatiu is one.

Consider also...this is AFTER Lizuca had her heal spell nerfed. The priests in the ML temple ARE pretty powerful, but the flip side is if they weren't the temple could easily get overrun on those semi-rare occasions where the tombs reach high spawn and PCs are getting chased out of the crypts by skeleton knights and hecculas. That and a large number of PCs are only kept in line with knowledge that most of the staff of the ML church could curb stomp them if they started getting uppity. Remove that and PC behavior would get even more outrageous. Frankly I quit parking my ML priest in the ML temple because I got tired of the endless dumbshit that went on in there among the player base.

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2013, 08:17:40 AM »
But I want to play my brooding death knight who openly talks about his hatred of the Morninglord while standing in the Morninglord Temple!

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2013, 12:19:53 PM »
I agree they are too powerful. It doesn't even make sense ICly becuase unlike what most people seem to think... The temple of the outskirts is not the main temple of the morninglordians. It's actually a crappy rundown temple whose only purpose is to serve as a cork for the evil underneath. The temple in vallaki with father illlie is more important and I'm not even mentioning the huge vatican-like complex they have in the village.
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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2013, 12:34:25 PM »
I have always agreed they are too powerful, but without the added steel... random players will not respect the area or the NPCs.

The poor ML church has been the subject of every "evil for the sake of being evil," attack, the only thing that comes close to things that were randomly attacked is the Orphanage.
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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2013, 01:08:13 PM »
I agree they are too powerful. It doesn't even make sense ICly becuase unlike what most people seem to think... The temple of the outskirts is not the main temple of the morninglordians. It's actually a crappy rundown temple whose only purpose is to serve as a cork for the evil underneath. The temple in vallaki with father illlie is more important and I'm not even mentioning the huge vatican-like complex they have in the village.
"Vatican-like complex"?! :roll: The Village's temple is run-down as well and really isn't much bigger than the one near Vallaki. There are numerous descriptive triggers stating the roof is nearly collapsed, most of the surrounding buildings are wrecked, and the basement is crawling with undead. The Cult of the Morninglord is a minor, poor religion in Ravenloft no matter where you find them, but their main temple is in Krezk.

I have always agreed they are too powerful, but without the added steel... random players will not respect the area or the NPCs.

The poor ML church has been the subject of every "evil for the sake of being evil," attack, the only thing that comes close to things that were randomly attacked is the Orphanage.
Yep. They wouldn't have been made that powerful if the place wasn't attacked every single day.

The Outskirts was always meant to be a low-level meet-up area and not much more. It's unfortunate that people choose to stay there beyond low levels but there's not much we can do about that (believe me, we've tried).

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2013, 01:13:09 PM »
Sounds like a good time to add Krezk!  Move the Morninglord player faction there.

I assume Krezk counts under the Wachter lands update?

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2013, 01:26:21 PM »
Yep. With the changes to XP and roleplay experience MPCs pretty much have it rough for getting scenes out there. Especially since we can't really do anything in places like the Mist Camp.

what are you talking about? the mist camp IS the perfect place for that because everyone can RP and cant hurt each other

its a perfect place for tense RP and threats and telling people 'if you want to do something about it meet me at such and such place and time'
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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2013, 01:49:07 PM »
Agreed they are too powerful, but there needs to be a hub for players to meet/greet high and low, the high levels help low levels and new players.  Thsi server is intimidating enought without that.  Also it seems you get flak if your toon stays in the night, you get flak if you hide in the temple, you get bored wandering around alone on the server looking for rp.  Just like the MPCS get flak if they hang around the busy outskirts, and bored also wandering looking for rp.
 
So the only way I see this resolved is through community and communication, like...

Something I don't see, and maybe its just me... but why doesn't anyone send a tell?  *You hear scratching on the door.*  or *Leaves a trail of...* to give an ic reason for folks to go somewhere... or heck.  I'd even be down for an ooc tell 'Hey want some rp? Head to this general area...'.  I just know when I've tried randomly wandering, I end up in sewers for real life hours alone... and lets face it, its a game.  If I'm giving up hours of my time I will not be doing it wandering alone, I'll go out and have dinner with friends before I do that every night.

Maybe a list of folks playing mpcs on forums... so we can send tells in game saying 'I'd love some interaction with an mpcs sometime'  I'd be the one to send tells, only I don't know who plays those sorts of chars that are looking for interaction.  I hate the ooc of it as much as many but really, if it means we get to be in teh same place IC and have some fun. Great?

Just some possible thoughts I'm sure have been said before, but heck... if an mpc wants some rp let me know.  I'd love some horror/conflict/rp!

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2013, 02:02:41 PM »
Honestly, I think MPCs/AMPCs should be able to do a voice emote for the next area.  I'm sure that could be coded in. 

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2013, 02:04:22 PM »
Targetting a voice command at a transition to send it through the transition would be cool, yes.
anecdote, n.
 1. a short account of a particular incident or event, especially of an interesting or amusing nature.
 2. a short, obscure historical or biographical account.

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2013, 03:25:51 PM »
As an AMPC/MPC I would advise making your player plots/events present elsewhere and broadcast this intent on the rumors/campfire sections of the forums, throw around clues and such to any would-be hunters or people interested in interacting with you. The "Rawr, I'm a monster, going to eat you!" effect is beaten to a pulp on this server and should be reserved for the NPCs. I was guilty of doing this in my beginner years so I am speaking from experience, and it never works out unless you put a lot of depth into it.

EX: Isn't Ghakis somewhat active with a few players looking to make role play more present? You can start there, and try to foster some things up there to encourage more people to head that way. Inhabit a cave, leave clues and tracks, maybe get a DM to help you set something up but as an AMPC these days it's pretty easy to do things independent of a DM.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 03:29:44 PM by Peasant »

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2013, 03:37:29 PM »
As an AMPC/MPC I would advise making your player plots/events present elsewhere and broadcast this intent on the rumors/campfire sections of the forums, throw around clues and such to any would-be hunters or people interested in interacting with you. The "Rawr, I'm a monster, going to eat you!" effect is beaten to a pulp on this server and should be reserved for the NPCs. I was guilty of doing this in my beginner years so I am speaking from experience, and it never works out unless you put\ a lot of depth into it.

I generally do try to do this whenever I can, but you tend to find that you lose something when everything is so scripted. You have to have some degree of spontaneity. Generally, the reaction to whenever I make a post on the forums along these lines is a rather mixed one. Ultimately what I had to do for the mummy I played all the way out in Har'Akir was chase down and harass would-be grinders, again with rather mixed results.

Also wereboars don't eat people, generally speaking - they're just stupidly territorial. But I get what you're trying to say.

Yep. With the changes to XP and roleplay experience MPCs pretty much have it rough for getting scenes out there. Especially since we can't really do anything in places like the Mist Camp.

what are you talking about? the mist camp IS the perfect place for that because everyone can RP and cant hurt each other

its a perfect place for tense RP and threats and telling people 'if you want to do something about it meet me at such and such place and time'

The Mist Camp I've mixed feelings about, just because people in the past have figured out they can be effectively immortal if they hide behind the Vistani NPCs, knowing full well they're completely safe there. But that's neither here nor there.

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2013, 04:19:15 PM »
The Mist Camp I've mixed feelings about, just because people in the past have figured out they can be effectively immortal if they hide behind the Vistani NPCs, knowing full well they're completely safe there. But that's neither here nor there.

Talk to your local friendly DM about that ;)
anecdote, n.
 1. a short account of a particular incident or event, especially of an interesting or amusing nature.
 2. a short, obscure historical or biographical account.

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2013, 04:31:43 PM »
As nice advice as that is, the truth is that for most of the days they will be "immune" to reprecussions in the Mist camp, since we do not allow the ignoring of NPCs, and conflict only with DMs there.

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2013, 05:28:55 PM »
Sounds like a good time to add Krezk!  Move the Morninglord player faction there.

Ooo, tickles me.


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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2013, 05:35:33 PM »
The Mist Camp I've mixed feelings about, just because people in the past have figured out they can be effectively immortal if they hide behind the Vistani NPCs, knowing full well they're completely safe there. But that's neither here nor there.

Talk to your local friendly DM about that ;)

Sure, I'll PM you a list of all the PC's whose setting smashing invincibility roleplay regularly occurs around the Vistani NPCs, including even calling the Vistani "ignorant" in their own camp.

Also, the Mists-Camp is a no battle zone, and you don't attack Vistani.  Vistani OCR settings don't respond to people fighting in Barovia, for that matter.  I trust this is by design.

Outside of the half-way Mists-Camp, no one is invincible.
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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2013, 05:40:00 PM »
i personally think the Vistani should really have it out for Lycans.. what with the image portrayed in Universal monster movies and other places

just as they were seen in assisting dracula.
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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2013, 07:42:49 PM »
Any Vistani camp would be far less tolerating of the sort of stupid behaviour prevalent in the Mist Camp lately. These people are insular and mistrustful of non-Vistani due to the universal loathing they receive during their travels. I would also like to point out that they certainly wouldn't be cool with people strolling about with creatures that are known to be dangerous or evil (read familiars) in the vicinity of their children and families. It also takes less than 10 minutes to find a good PDF of Van Richten's Guide to the Vistani with any search engine. Reading enrichens the mind and can strengthen your RP. [Nod nod]
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 07:44:44 PM by Badelaire »

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2013, 08:14:13 AM »
Any Vistani camp would be far less tolerating of the sort of stupid behaviour prevalent in the Mist Camp lately. These people are insular and mistrustful of non-Vistani due to the universal loathing they receive during their travels. I would also like to point out that they certainly wouldn't be cool with people strolling about with creatures that are known to be dangerous or evil (read familiars) in the vicinity of their children and families. It also takes less than 10 minutes to find a good PDF of Van Richten's Guide to the Vistani with any search engine. Reading enrichens the mind and can strengthen your RP. [Nod nod]


Good point, they should attack familiars.
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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2013, 08:18:10 AM »
I agree they are too powerful. It doesn't even make sense ICly becuase unlike what most people seem to think... The temple of the outskirts is not the main temple of the morninglordians. It's actually a crappy rundown temple whose only purpose is to serve as a cork for the evil underneath. The temple in vallaki with father illlie is more important and I'm not even mentioning the huge vatican-like complex they have in the village.
"Vatican-like complex"?! :roll: The Village's temple is run-down as well and really isn't much bigger than the one near Vallaki. There are numerous descriptive triggers stating the roof is nearly collapsed, most of the surrounding buildings are wrecked, and the basement is crawling with undead. The Cult of the Morninglord is a minor, poor religion in Ravenloft no matter where you find them, but their main temple is in Krezk.

I have always agreed they are too powerful, but without the added steel... random players will not respect the area or the NPCs.

The poor ML church has been the subject of every "evil for the sake of being evil," attack, the only thing that comes close to things that were randomly attacked is the Orphanage.
Yep. They wouldn't have been made that powerful if the place wasn't attacked every single day.

The Outskirts was always meant to be a low-level meet-up area and not much more. It's unfortunate that people choose to stay there beyond low levels but there's not much we can do about that (believe me, we've tried).

The unlimited supply of healing potions and free heals don't help. If you changed the priestesses spell to a basic Cure Light wounds, and stopped her handing out potions to anyone above level 5 that might help. Certainly would stop the aggresive farming of the crypts by the mid to high range characters would romp through the levels at high speed and egnore the lower level plebs.
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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2013, 08:23:53 AM »
The unlimited supply of healing potions and free heals don't help. If you changed the priestesses spell to a basic Cure Light wounds, and stopped her handing out potions to anyone above level 5 that might help. Certainly would stop the aggresive farming of the crypts by the mid to high range characters would romp through the levels at high speed and egnore the lower level plebs.

Although this is a nice idea, all a high level PC needs to do to side--step this restriction is hand off his knuckles to a low level PC. It's a bit of an artificial restriction, as well, framing interaction in OOC logic.

To make it work you'd have to make high-level PCs unable to collect knuckles in the first place.
anecdote, n.
 1. a short account of a particular incident or event, especially of an interesting or amusing nature.
 2. a short, obscure historical or biographical account.

Paragonville

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Re: Lizuca and Horatiu.
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2013, 08:28:17 AM »
The unlimited supply of healing potions and free heals don't help. If you changed the priestesses spell to a basic Cure Light wounds, and stopped her handing out potions to anyone above level 5 that might help. Certainly would stop the aggresive farming of the crypts by the mid to high range characters would romp through the levels at high speed and egnore the lower level plebs.

Although this is a nice idea, all a high level PC needs to do to side--step this restriction is hand off his knuckles to a low level PC. It's a bit of an artificial restriction, as well, framing interaction in OOC logic.

To make it work you'd have to make high-level PCs unable to collect knuckles in the first place.

Then again, they can just start having a low level buddy pick them up for them.