Dungeon System Changes?

[Ophie Kitty]

I completely understand what you are saying Rhymo. I just do not think what has been suggested in this thread would be a good idea. Some people may not have issues getting a group together but others do and I think doing this would cause that to be a problem for all of us. For instance, say I log on and would love to go to a dungeon so I get a few people together. What happens now when 2-3 of the people in my group have been to several other dungeons within the last two days? They won't get xp unless we can find a dungeon that none of us have done. I see people backing out of dungeons over the fact they won't get anything from it, therefore making it that much harder to even go to a dungeon.

Its a hypothetical situation; and you simply have to decide what you would prefer.

Would you rather have a dungeon there that you can do and 'MAYBE' have to find someone else to do it with because your friends decided to grind alot of dungeons earlier; or would you rather get together with your friends and not have any dungeons to do because they're all low spawn because they grinded them earlier?

[Mcskinns]

We have chests spawning loot based on frequency of hitting them, whats so bad about having the spawns react in a similar way?

It would promote people not farming one spot, and wether you group or solo the spawns would be tied to your groups overall frequency. The groundwork is already in place with the anti-loot-grind system, it just needs some expanding to affect the spawns as well.

[Kiess2606]

or heres an idea.

ask soren to be nice and return the spawn rates to acomodate the amount of players that are on potm, if the spawn rates are better then everyone has a dungeon crawl and the xp  system itself blocks the amount of given xp.

if im not mistaken soren did lower the spawn rates so this might be the effect of it someone cleared it and it takes to long to regrow.

The XP system has no hard cap. I know its capable, even on the current system, to grind out levels past 15+ in less then 2 weeks, even in full XP penalty.

Basically, I'm suggesting what you are, increase the spawn rates of dungeons, so they are more populated, more often, so theres better dungeoning for all. The rest of it is simply safe guards to prevent power leveling characters from repeatedly grinding dungeons for XP, given faster Respawns. Cause if they can do it in 2 weeks with slow spawns, we'd have people getting high, high levels in a week or even weekend, if dungeons were much more readily available.

Level 15 in two weeks? Been at it for 3 and a half months and yet to get a character past Effective 12. The idea slaps the majority to try and punish a select few, far as I can tell, and I've never seen anyone pump that high so quickly.

Agreed. I have two chars that are over 2 years old and are only at 15. I do not grind 24/7 though

[Ophie Kitty]

or heres an idea.

ask soren to be nice and return the spawn rates to acomodate the amount of players that are on potm, if the spawn rates are better then everyone has a dungeon crawl and the xp  system itself blocks the amount of given xp.

if im not mistaken soren did lower the spawn rates so this might be the effect of it someone cleared it and it takes to long to regrow.

The XP system has no hard cap. I know its capable, even on the current system, to grind out levels past 15+ in less then 2 weeks, even in full XP penalty.

Basically, I'm suggesting what you are, increase the spawn rates of dungeons, so they are more populated, more often, so theres better dungeoning for all. The rest of it is simply safe guards to prevent power leveling characters from repeatedly grinding dungeons for XP, given faster Respawns. Cause if they can do it in 2 weeks with slow spawns, we'd have people getting high, high levels in a week or even weekend, if dungeons were much more readily available.

Level 15 in two weeks? Been at it for 3 and a half months and yet to get a character past Effective 12. The idea slaps the majority to try and punish a select few, far as I can tell, and I've never seen anyone pump that high so quickly.

He said they can get a level (past level 15th) in two weeks, not level a character this fast. I'll shamelessly take credit for this- I attempted to prove a point by grinding for two weeks straight to determine the experience gain on the system. I pushed from the start of 16th to 17th in about a week and a half. It was very session based (but my playtimes changed depending on how the spawns were), Its not hard to do at all.

And regardless, Its boring as hell but you can hit 12th in pretty much a month.

[Kiess2606]

We have chests spawning loot based on frequency of hitting them, whats so bad about having the spawns react in a similar way?

It would promote people not farming one spot, and wether you group or solo the spawns would be tied to your groups overall frequency. The groundwork is already in place with the anti-loot-grind system, it just needs some expanding to affect the spawns as well.

What is bad is that when you do have reason to go to a dungeon again after a day or so you are getting nothing for going. Sure some of us will suck that up for rp purposes but that seems kind of crappy IMO.

[Silverfox]

I completely understand what you are saying Rhymo. I just do not think what has been suggested in this thread would be a good idea. Some people may not have issues getting a group together but others do and I think doing this would cause that to be a problem for all of us. For instance, say I log on and would love to go to a dungeon so I get a few people together. What happens now when 2-3 of the people in my group have been to several other dungeons within the last two days? They won't get xp unless we can find a dungeon that none of us have done. I see people backing out of dungeons over the fact they won't get anything from it, therefore making it that much harder to even go to a dungeon.

Its a hypothetical situation; and you simply have to decide what you would prefer.

Would you rather have a dungeon there that you can do and 'MAYBE' have to find someone else to do it with because your friends decided to grind alot of dungeons earlier; or would you rather get together with your friends and not have any dungeons to do because they're all low spawn because they grinded them earlier?

Yeah, I'd rather play with my friends. It's hard enough finding a group to begin with without making it exponentially so.

[Ophie Kitty]

I completely understand what you are saying Rhymo. I just do not think what has been suggested in this thread would be a good idea. Some people may not have issues getting a group together but others do and I think doing this would cause that to be a problem for all of us. For instance, say I log on and would love to go to a dungeon so I get a few people together. What happens now when 2-3 of the people in my group have been to several other dungeons within the last two days? They won't get xp unless we can find a dungeon that none of us have done. I see people backing out of dungeons over the fact they won't get anything from it, therefore making it that much harder to even go to a dungeon.

Its a hypothetical situation; and you simply have to decide what you would prefer.

Would you rather have a dungeon there that you can do and 'MAYBE' have to find someone else to do it with because your friends decided to grind alot of dungeons earlier; or would you rather get together with your friends and not have any dungeons to do because they're all low spawn because they grinded them earlier?

Yeah, I'd rather play with my friends. It's hard enough finding a group to begin with without making it exponentially so.

I still don't see your point. Unless your one of those people who endlessly grind dungeons and do all of them on the server, whats the problem? From what you've described you don't dungeon all that much already because you have a hard time finding groups- So now when you do have a group you have something worthwhile to do.

I guess people will have to find something else to do besides grinding hak'akir desert trolls 24/7 to level

[Sorrow00]

I believe you all are getting from the original point of this thread.

The issue of people breaking the RP wall and playing on the server more like a PVE/Grind server, putting the Devs work out the window to try making a Gothic horror and mystery sort of setting.

[Ophie Kitty]

I believe you all are getting from the original point of this thread.

The issue of people breaking the RP wall and playing on the server more like a PVE/Grind server, putting the Devs work out the window to try making a Gothic horror and mystery sort of setting.

+1

[Kiess2606]

What I am saying is... Look at the big picture. We are not all on at the same time. People will do what comes up at the time it comes up. So if with the time I can get on and other players have been on it is more likely that someone will not get xp because at some point in earlier rp they have already done a few dungeons. That's a big issue. I just do not believe the outcome that you are looking for will happen. If this was implemented I think even some of the people who are for this would find that it didn't help any because now you can not find someone who wants to waste their time in a dungeon were they do not get anything from it.

[Silverfox]

I completely understand what you are saying Rhymo. I just do not think what has been suggested in this thread would be a good idea. Some people may not have issues getting a group together but others do and I think doing this would cause that to be a problem for all of us. For instance, say I log on and would love to go to a dungeon so I get a few people together. What happens now when 2-3 of the people in my group have been to several other dungeons within the last two days? They won't get xp unless we can find a dungeon that none of us have done. I see people backing out of dungeons over the fact they won't get anything from it, therefore making it that much harder to even go to a dungeon.

Its a hypothetical situation; and you simply have to decide what you would prefer.

Would you rather have a dungeon there that you can do and 'MAYBE' have to find someone else to do it with because your friends decided to grind alot of dungeons earlier; or would you rather get together with your friends and not have any dungeons to do because they're all low spawn because they grinded them earlier?

Yeah, I'd rather play with my friends. It's hard enough finding a group to begin with without making it exponentially so.

I still don't see your point. Unless your one of those people who endlessly grind dungeons and do all of them on the server, whats the problem? From what you've described you don't dungeon all that much already because you have a hard time finding groups- So now when you do have a group you have something worthwhile to do.

I guess people will have to find something else to do besides grinding hak'akir desert trolls 24/7 to level

And suddenly the group I did find contains a couple of people who did it yesterday. Group disbands. I'm left in the lurch again.

[Ophie Kitty]

And suddenly the group I did find contains a couple of people who did it yesterday. Group disbands. I'm left in the lurch again.

So you go find a different dungeon to do instead of grinding the same one all the time. There should be plenty available if things spawn faster. You just aren't going to be able to farm the same one all the time. I doubt people are going to cry and pout that they can't do one dungeon without suggesting something else they can do.

[Kiess2606]

And suddenly the group I did find contains a couple of people who did it yesterday. Group disbands. I'm left in the lurch again.

So you go find a different dungeon to do instead of grinding the same one all the time. There should be plenty available if things spawn faster. You just aren't going to be able to farm the same one all the time. I doubt people are going to cry and pout that they can't do one dungeon without suggesting something else they can do.

What if you need a specific dungeon due to alchemy components or skins? Now the dungeon you need may be impossible to get help doing because there is not another option.

[Silverfox]

Most people I run around with only get XP from Har'akir and Perfidus. That's not many dungeons to dip into.

I believe you all are getting from the original point of this thread.

The issue of people breaking the RP wall and playing on the server more like a PVE/Grind server, putting the Devs work out the window to try making a Gothic horror and mystery sort of setting.

Oh snap. Know what? Strip out the dungeons. Then all we'll be able to do is RP. That's the point, right?

Don't be goddamn daft. There's no more Gothic Horror and Mystery standing around the Mist Camp and Outskirts than there is killing things in the same dungeon for the 18th time.

Gothic Horror and Mystery is created by atmospheric scenes with DMs or PC antagonists creating that moment. This happens less, if anything, if new antagonists cant arise.

[Mcskinns]

We have chests spawning loot based on frequency of hitting them, whats so bad about having the spawns react in a similar way?

It would promote people not farming one spot, and wether you group or solo the spawns would be tied to your groups overall frequency. The groundwork is already in place with the anti-loot-grind system, it just needs some expanding to affect the spawns as well.

What is bad is that when you do have reason to go to a dungeon again after a day or so you are getting nothing for going. Sure some of us will suck that up for rp purposes but that seems kind of crappy IMO.

if you have an RP reason for going, then go... the solution I offer does not shut off XP only lowers the effective spawn level if sufficient party members have hit the dungeon in a short amount of time.  I don't see where this penalizes anyone in any way save those frequently hitting the same dungeon.  As things are your not going to hit a high spawn on most any attempt to go, at least with my suggestion you could get one on occasion by simply not going overly often.  As well, what I was proposing would simply mean if you hit a dungeon on max spawn today(since you had not been there in a week or so) then returning tomorrow would only reduce the spawn a level if the same people were to travel with you.  If however, you went with a handful of people who had also not gone in a long time the effect of your recent visit would have less effect in reducing the overall spawn for the party

[Ophie Kitty]

Most people I run around with only get XP from Har'akir and Perfidus. That's not many dungeons to dip into.

I believe you all are getting from the original point of this thread.

The issue of people breaking the RP wall and playing on the server more like a PVE/Grind server, putting the Devs work out the window to try making a Gothic horror and mystery sort of setting.

Oh snap. Know what? Strip out the dungeons. Then all we'll be able to do is RP. That's the point, right?

Don't be goddamn daft. There's no more Gothic Horror and Mystery standing around the Mist Camp and Outskirts than there is killing things in the same dungeon for the 18th time.

Gothic Horror and Mystery is created by atmospheric scenes with DMs or PC antagonists creating that moment. This happens less, if anything, if new antagonists cant arise.

If were talking about this idea where things get better spawned quicker-

Perfidus, Trolls, Hotep, Anubis, Harvest Temple, Vault/Snakes, Wererats, Well, Skeletons, Crypts,Darklings, Swamps, , Blaustein, Demon Crypts, Lysaga Hill

Now if we want to include everything that is appropriate for your character level; which you said was 12th, and just about the people you go with, and since these too would more likely have a better spawn for you.

Silver Mines, Ice Palace, Terg Crypts, Lich Tower, Scrags, Werewolves, Alhoon, Shadow Caverns, Ants, Fire Caves, Vassalich Caves, Hazlan Rebels, Port Sewers, Smugglers, Invidians, Ghaki's Caves

[Silverfox]

We have chests spawning loot based on frequency of hitting them, whats so bad about having the spawns react in a similar way?

It would promote people not farming one spot, and wether you group or solo the spawns would be tied to your groups overall frequency. The groundwork is already in place with the anti-loot-grind system, it just needs some expanding to affect the spawns as well.

What is bad is that when you do have reason to go to a dungeon again after a day or so you are getting nothing for going. Sure some of us will suck that up for rp purposes but that seems kind of crappy IMO.

if you have an RP reason for going, then go... the solution I offer does not shut off XP only lowers the effective spawn level if sufficient party members have hit the dungeon in a short amount of time.  I don't see where this penalizes anyone in any way save those frequently hitting the same dungeon.  As things are your not going to hit a high spawn on most any attempt to go, at least with my suggestion you could get one on occasion by simply not going overly often.  As well, what I was proposing would simply mean if you hit a dungeon on max spawn today(since you had not been there in a week or so) then returning tomorrow would only reduce the spawn a level if the same people were to travel with you.  If however, you went with a handful of people who had also not gone in a long time the effect of your recent visit would have less effect in reducing the overall spawn for the party

Your suggestion isn't the primary one being debated.

Most people I run around with only get XP from Har'akir and Perfidus. That's not many dungeons to dip into.

I believe you all are getting from the original point of this thread.

The issue of people breaking the RP wall and playing on the server more like a PVE/Grind server, putting the Devs work out the window to try making a Gothic horror and mystery sort of setting.

Oh snap. Know what? Strip out the dungeons. Then all we'll be able to do is RP. That's the point, right?

Don't be goddamn daft. There's no more Gothic Horror and Mystery standing around the Mist Camp and Outskirts than there is killing things in the same dungeon for the 18th time.

Gothic Horror and Mystery is created by atmospheric scenes with DMs or PC antagonists creating that moment. This happens less, if anything, if new antagonists cant arise.

If were talking about this idea where things get better spawned quicker-

Perfidus, Trolls, Hotep, Anubis, Harvest Temple, Vault/Snakes, Wererats, Well, Skeletons, Crypts,Darklings, Swamps, , Blaustein, Demon Crypts, Lysaga Hill

Now if we want to include everything that is appropriate for your character level; which you said was 12th, and just about the people you go with, and since these too would more likely have a better spawn for you.

Silver Mines, Ice Palace, Terg Crypts, Lich Tower, Scrags, Werewolves, Alhoon, Shadow Caverns, Ants, Fire Caves, Vassalich Caves, Hazlan Rebels, Port Sewers, Smugglers, Invidians, Ghaki's Caves

I have no idea where most of these places are located , and things like the Terg, and the Werewolves, and Ants, don't give me XP except on really high spawn.

[Ophie Kitty]

@Silverfox: Which in the case of Hatsunes current suggestion- would make them options for you.

[Silverfox]

Except for the absence of a party, because everyone I seem able to get an adventure with, is substantially higher level than me, and thus likely wont benefit from doing said dungeons.

Ad infinitum. The whole issue is very circular.

[Hatsune]

Except for the absence of a party, because everyone I seem able to get an adventure with, is substantially higher level than me, and thus likely wont benefit from doing said dungeons.

Ad infinitum. The whole issue is very circular.

My suggestion is in hopes of pleasing the majority of the server. While I know it will have issues, it can't cater to everyone, especially when whatever RP generated issues keep your character segregated from the majority of the populace, be it race or outcast rating. Such is a hindrance of the character you choose to play, and likely affects more things then just dungeons, yes?

[dutchy]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

since when dont we have a hardcap anymore????

must have missed that one ugh

[Silverfox]

Except for the absence of a party, because everyone I seem able to get an adventure with, is substantially higher level than me, and thus likely wont benefit from doing said dungeons.

Ad infinitum. The whole issue is very circular.

My suggestion is in hopes of pleasing the majority of the server. While I know it will have issues, it can't cater to everyone, especially when whatever RP generated issues keep your character segregated from the majority of the populace, be it race or outcast rating. Such is a hindrance of the character you choose to play, and likely affects more things then just dungeons, yes?

Not...tremendously. I can sit around the Mist Camp and RP with people easily (when it isn't empty), it's just when it comes to dungeons that I have problems there.

[Dusk]

An idea that could probably do with some tweaking, but regardless, I give it the:

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

since when dont we have a hardcap anymore????

must have missed that one ugh

The soft cap is in a sense a hard cap. There is an absolute limit to how much you can theoretically gain over a period. If you've been fairly inactive before, you'll have a lot of "cap" to run on. For two weeks, the theoretical limit is roughly 13k if your soft cap at that point is lax. It'll just mean that after doing that XP spree, you'll be virtually incapable of gaining dungeon XP for a few, and have it reduced for several more. Why anyone would do it - beside "to prove a point", I'm not sure.

As for the general idea, my main beef with such systems are actually that they are very OOC-based, and thus encourage OOC thinking and behaving. Solo-farming might be to a degree as well, but two wrongs doesn't make a right. I'd rather we tried to come up with more true-to-IC ways of how to reduce excessive soloing and farming. Ways of reducing the pace and make it more group and roleplay oriented.

[Ophie Kitty]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

since when dont we have a hardcap anymore????

must have missed that one ugh

The soft cap is in a sense a hard cap. There is an absolute limit to how much you can theoretically gain over a period. If you've been fairly inactive before, you'll have a lot of "cap" to run on. For two weeks, the theoretical limit is roughly 13k if your soft cap at that point is lax. It'll just mean that after doing that XP spree, you'll be virtually incapable of gaining dungeon XP for a few, and have it reduced for several more. Why anyone would do it - beside "to prove a point", I'm not sure.

As for the general idea, my main beef with such systems are actually that they are very OOC-based, and thus encourage OOC thinking and behaving. Solo-farming might be to a degree as well, but two wrongs doesn't make a right. I'd rather we tried to come up with more true-to-IC ways of how to reduce excessive soloing and farming. Ways of reducing the pace and make it more group and roleplay oriented.

I think thats the general idea. I'd love to see less farming, less grinding, because I feel  thats more immersion breaking then having a system in place to prevent it.