Dungeon System Changes?

[Hatsune]

With recent changes in the looting system, I wanted to address issues with dungeoning in general, that I often hear others complaining about, and an idea for ground works to improve gameplay in general.

So, my idea is to take this 'individual marking' on chests used in the loot system now, and apply it to experience as well.

- When a player kills something in a dungeon, they are 'marked' or tagged, or something, by the scripts, to signify when they started that dungeon.

- That player gains experience like normal for that 'reset' of the dungeon.. I.E. so long as they don't leave and allow the dungeon to reset, things function normally.

- Then, after that, they'd receive no experience for running that dungeon again, for a set number of hours or days. I was contemplating what I'd set this at, and I'd even think 2-3 real life days before you can run a dungeon again (and get XP) might be fair.

Things attempting to gain from this:

 - Ability to greatly increase the spawn growth of dungeons, so that they populate faster, thus allowing more people to enjoy dungeons when they want to, as they cannot be "Farmed" by people repeatedly. So a dungeon might respawn in say, 4 hours now, but each character could only run it every few days, whatever time limit was decided.

 - Remove/rework some of the spawns of higher level dungeons. Part of why I see 'low spawns' of dungeons is to keep it so that re-running dungeons isn't worth it, you drop spawns to low levels so they don't provide XP, but if we do it mechanically, theres no need for those pesky low spawn situations.

 - With both of the above points, dungeons would be at 'higher spawns' more often, perhaps providing a bit more 'horror' and difficulty in the server. Make those higher level dungeons harder, and have a reason to be feared, rather then constantly at low-mid spawn for farming.

Possible Issues:

 - Loot. With higher spawns and faster Respawns, loot might have to be 'reworked' a little to avoid a flood of better gear.

- Scripting. Given, I'm not a scriptor! I know basic programming, but have no experience with NWN stuff. So whether something like this would be to complex, or even doable, I'm not sure.

[Sorrow00]

 +1
Im a new player to this server, and since ive been playing abit, ive seen dungeons constantly farmed, when i think theyre suppose to add horror, suspense, and dark mystery to the server and make people actually scared, but yet, that doesnt happen and high lvls act like there isnt a thing that can truly harm them, making the server more Pve rather rp , and grinding.

Along with people not taking dungeons and encounters very seriously, or metagaming multiple occasions.

[Delete Me]

I have looked around at about every dungeon, including perf, for weeks.

It has all been farmed to death.

The entire server.

Frustrating.

I support .

[Little Lotte]

+1

[Ophie Kitty]

[Rhymo Stamp of Approval]

[Mcskinns]

I'd suggest a slightly different approach, tie the spawn level to the group who enters.  For each entry to the dungeon give a +1 to a variable on the player when players enter the area outside the dungeon have it deduct the total variables from the max spawn setting.

Thus things no longer have to be left alone for hours/days for a group who has never done the dungeon, or who have at least not done it in a while.

Having 1-2 people who hit it yesterday might impact some, but not enough to destroy the spawn for everyone.

[Silverfox]

You've all gone mad. It takes an agonising amount of time and effort to achieve anything already. Why on earth do you want to make it harder?

[Kiess2606]

Wouldn't doing this actually make finding a group to finish a dungeon harder? What would happen if say on day 1 I enter a dungeon with a group, then on day 2 I am asked to help with a different group of people? Would this mean the rest will get xp but I no longer would? I completely understand the frustration with cleared dungeons, I think we all do but this seems absurd to me.

[Lucadia]

I suggest looking at the bottom line before making more changes at the top. A good deal of the player base moved to the Mist Camp with the tweaks to rp xp in Barovia. Iv had it harder starting a new pc due to lacking others , and loops the cycle of new pcs in Mist camp. This had lead to dungeons surrounding that hub being hit harder by all levels. Im not understanding why your trying impact those that do like dungeon also..The spawn growth is so low right now Only one party can do a particular dungeon every 2-3 irl days, leaving everyone else with nothing.

 Ugh this would lead into argument of who had the more right away. Those that rp or those that dungeon and us stragglers that do a mix.

[dutchy]

not everybody gets dm xp and those people take awhile to level it wont change a thing.

if that system was in place i would do what most would do have 3 main chars and alternate them one is full! np il logon the other  the other is full welll lets bring out number 3 when hes full i can get to number 1 again.

if people want to dungeon they will dungeon.

[Hatsune]

Wouldn't doing this actually make finding a group to finish a dungeon harder? What would happen if say on day 1 I enter a dungeon with a group, then on day 2 I am asked to help with a different group of people? Would this mean the rest will get xp but I no longer would? I completely understand the frustration with cleared dungeons, I think we all do but this seems absurd to me.

I've hardly ever heard issue of people finding a group to do a dungeon... is this an issue, too? Mostly I hear is getting a group, and then spending 4 hours trying to find something above a 20% spawn, because everything is farmed so heavily and repeatedly.

What I propose wouldn't stop you from assisting that second group.. you just wouldn't get XP for that same dungeon doing it again so quickly.. you'd still ICly be able to assist them, and the spawns wouldn't 'suffer' or anything. Just a persanal penalty, for running a dungeon to frequently.

 

not everybody gets dm xp and those people take awhile to level it wont change a thing.

if that system was in place i would do what most would do have 3 main chars and alternate them one is full! np il logon the other  the other is full welll lets bring out number 3 when hes full i can get to number 1 again.

if people want to dungeon they will dungeon.

People already do that anyway, which is why causing them to wait 'days' instead of just for the next decent respawn would allow respawns to happen faster, in hopes that dungeons might be at doable spawns when more casual players attempt to get out and about. No system will ever be perfect.

[Amon-Si]

At the times I get to play often there are less than 20 people on, 60% aren't in my area, 30% are too high a level, and the other 10% are afk lol.
Soloing is really my only choice a lot of the time, so instead I sacrifice advancement and instead RP with the people I can't dungeon with.
This would just make all the spawns I could do be maxed out all the time, which is fine.... probably get me killed a lot though.

[Ophie Kitty]

You've all gone mad. It takes an agonising amount of time and effort to achieve anything already. Why on earth do you want to make it harder?

 I personally don't see how this suggestion makes things take longer; It helps encourage people not to hit the same dungeons all the time everyday. With this suggestion things are properly slightly easier (yeah, you probably can't farm things now but isn't that the point) and groups don't have to spend three hours searching the server for a 'dungeon worth their time'

Im not understanding why your trying impact those that do like dungeon also..The spawn growth is so low right now Only one party can do a particular dungeon every 2-3 irl days, leaving everyone else with nothing.

I'm not sure whats being said there..

[Lucadia]

You could also just have dungeons reset when a set amount players step in..say a group of 5 or 6 then you know..nobody have spend hours looking for a dungeon worth their time. Xp cap reduction is already in place that stops pcs from growing to fast by farming, they want go , why not let them?

[Ophie Kitty]

The main things I see with the system are these points:

1) It allows more people to enjoy the harder spawns

2) It encourages people not to dungeon farm for XP (because you wouldn't be able to)

3) Suggests more opportunity to roleplay and enjoy the setting, instead of everything being cleared all the time.

[Silverfox]

Wouldn't doing this actually make finding a group to finish a dungeon harder? What would happen if say on day 1 I enter a dungeon with a group, then on day 2 I am asked to help with a different group of people? Would this mean the rest will get xp but I no longer would? I completely understand the frustration with cleared dungeons, I think we all do but this seems absurd to me.

I've hardly ever heard issue of people finding a group to do a dungeon... is this an issue, too? Mostly I hear is getting a group, and then spending 4 hours trying to find something above a 20% spawn, because everything is farmed so heavily and repeatedly.

What I propose wouldn't stop you from assisting that second group.. you just wouldn't get XP for that same dungeon doing it again so quickly.. you'd still ICly be able to assist them, and the spawns wouldn't 'suffer' or anything. Just a persanal penalty, for running a dungeon to frequently.

 

not everybody gets dm xp and those people take awhile to level it wont change a thing.

if that system was in place i would do what most would do have 3 main chars and alternate them one is full! np il logon the other  the other is full welll lets bring out number 3 when hes full i can get to number 1 again.

if people want to dungeon they will dungeon.

People already do that anyway, which is why causing them to wait 'days' instead of just for the next decent respawn would allow respawns to happen faster, in hopes that dungeons might be at doable spawns when more casual players attempt to get out and about. No system will ever be perfect.

Well, no. Squashing the frequency is only going to hurt the casual gamer. I work full time, and study, and I don't really have the leisure of sitting around and waiting three days to go crash a dungeon if that's my prerogative.

Yes. Finding a group is an issue, mostly for Eurozone players. And yeah, I can't speak for anyone else, but when I go to the time and effort to put my character's neck on the line, I'd like to be rewarded for it. If there's no reward in it, then why bother dungeoning at all? I'd rather hit low spawn and get a little than high spawn and get nothing.

Splat. There goes a lot of co-op. Up goes alt-aholism. Down goes stability of RP environment due to people character swapping all the time. Levelling slows down across the board for individual PCs.

All in all, a terrible idea.

[Snowflame]

I've hardly ever heard issue of people finding a group to do a dungeon... is this an issue, too? Mostly I hear is getting a group, and then spending 4 hours trying to find something above a 20% spawn, because everything is farmed so heavily and repeatedly.

Ever played a caliban? Yeah. It's almost impossible to get a group. I remember being invited on hunting trips but not able to go since I was kind of stuck in a vistani camp or the sewers, otherwise i'd get shot on sight or something, or of course "sorry one of our party members won't tolerate you lol". I have a hard time plenty trying to find a party, and not just on my caliban altough the point of caliban etc makes the point that yeah, you are going to get left out. A lot. If you really wanna solve the repetitive farming and some people getting left out, there is a very simple solution: Make more dungeons. Problem is that's hard work on the devs i'm sure and they can't just whip out new stuff on a whim. However more dungeons would really do the trick, also people could get more creative on their hunting grounds. there are plenty of places people don't visit to go hunting.

[Ophie Kitty]

I've hardly ever heard issue of people finding a group to do a dungeon... is this an issue, too? Mostly I hear is getting a group, and then spending 4 hours trying to find something above a 20% spawn, because everything is farmed so heavily and repeatedly.

Ever played a caliban? Yeah. It's almost impossible to get a group. I remember being invited on hunting trips but not able to go since I was kind of stuck in a vistani camp or the sewers, otherwise i'd get shot on sight or something, or of course "sorry one of our party members won't tolerate you lol". I have a hard time plenty trying to find a party, and not just on my caliban altough the point of caliban etc makes the point that yeah, you are going to get left out. A lot. If you really wanna solve the repetitive farming and some people getting left out, there is a very simple solution: Make more dungeons. Problem is that's hard work on the devs i'm sure and they can't just whip out new stuff on a whim. However more dungeons would really do the trick, also people could get more creative on their hunting grounds. there are plenty of places people don't visit to go hunting.

Thats a risk involved when you play that sort of character, and shouldn't be assumed to be the general public. If you play an outcast, yes, things are going to be harder. Thats the point.

[Kiess2606]

Wouldn't doing this actually make finding a group to finish a dungeon harder? What would happen if say on day 1 I enter a dungeon with a group, then on day 2 I am asked to help with a different group of people? Would this mean the rest will get xp but I no longer would? I completely understand the frustration with cleared dungeons, I think we all do but this seems absurd to me.

I've hardly ever heard issue of people finding a group to do a dungeon... is this an issue, too? Mostly I hear is getting a group, and then spending 4 hours trying to find something above a 20% spawn, because everything is farmed so heavily and repeatedly.

What I propose wouldn't stop you from assisting that second group.. you just wouldn't get XP for that same dungeon doing it again so quickly.. you'd still ICly be able to assist them, and the spawns wouldn't 'suffer' or anything. Just a persanal penalty, for running a dungeon to frequently.

With everyone now moved to the mist camp I admit it can be easier to find a group. Though to answer your question, yes, at times it can be difficult to get a group together depending on what you are trying to do. Also a reason many of us are even more frustrated when we can't find a dungeon because we put time into getting a group together to do it.

It may not stop my char from ICly going but OOC do I really want to sit for an hour going through a dungeon that get nothing from when I could be role playing somewhere else? Probably not. Rp in a dungeon is nice but it rarely is going to be in depth or very much at all as we are all paying more attention to what we are doing. The problem I see here is say I was RPing with a group of people and they wanted to go to a dungeon I had been to, well I may not want to go but now it may be an OOC choice. I could go to try to stay IC but if the rp is lacking because everyone is busy fighting then this turns into a great trip of pointless boredom.

[Amon-Si]

I did have an interesting dungeon idea that would be impossible to solo and need at least 2-6 people just to complete...
Oh, and if you got it wrong a rescue party would need to be just as big, or you'd have to wait until reset (You'd lose all your dropped gear, of course) now that's a scary idea, no?
I wish I had time to actually do anything with these ideas. Bleh.

[Ophie Kitty]

Wouldn't doing this actually make finding a group to finish a dungeon harder? What would happen if say on day 1 I enter a dungeon with a group, then on day 2 I am asked to help with a different group of people? Would this mean the rest will get xp but I no longer would? I completely understand the frustration with cleared dungeons, I think we all do but this seems absurd to me.

I've hardly ever heard issue of people finding a group to do a dungeon... is this an issue, too? Mostly I hear is getting a group, and then spending 4 hours trying to find something above a 20% spawn, because everything is farmed so heavily and repeatedly.

What I propose wouldn't stop you from assisting that second group.. you just wouldn't get XP for that same dungeon doing it again so quickly.. you'd still ICly be able to assist them, and the spawns wouldn't 'suffer' or anything. Just a persanal penalty, for running a dungeon to frequently.

With everyone now moved to the mist camp I admit it can be easier to find a group. Though to answer your question, yes, at times it can be difficult to get a group together depending on what you are trying to do. Also a reason many of us are even more frustrated when we can't find a dungeon because we put time into getting a group together to do it.

It may not stop my char from ICly going but OOC do I really want to sit for an hour going through a dungeon that get nothing from when I could be role playing somewhere else? Probably not. Rp in a dungeon is nice but it rarely is going to be in depth or very much at all as we are all paying more attention to what we are doing. The problem I see here is say I was RPing with a group of people and they wanted to go to a dungeon I had been to, well I may not want to go but now it may be an OOC choice. I could go to try to stay IC but if the rp is lacking because everyone is busy fighting then this turns into a great trip of pointless boredom.

This system, to my understanding of it- means when you want to go out and do a dungeon, you're more likely able to do one that actually has something worthwhile in it. The only limiting factor would be that you can't continiously repeat the same dungeon (if things are to spawn higher, more quickly). In which you simply just pick a different dungeon to do, not a bad idea either. Its not like you can do that with the current system anyways and get good spawns, since most things take 1-2 full days to get back up to a decent strength anyways. So to simply say, things respawn faster for players, but limit the experience gain you can get from the same dungeons over a short period of time. Meaning more players can be there to enjoy the same dungeon- while people like me can't grind and level quickly.

 In the current systems things have a dynamic growth system to prevent individual people from being able to grind and exploit the growth to level at an extreme rate.

[dutchy]

or heres an idea.

ask soren to be nice and return the spawn rates to acomodate the amount of players that are on potm, if the spawn rates are better then everyone has a dungeon crawl and the xp  system itself blocks the amount of given xp.

if im not mistaken soren did lower the spawn rates so this might be the effect of it someone cleared it and it takes to long to regrow.

[Hatsune]

or heres an idea.

ask soren to be nice and return the spawn rates to acomodate the amount of players that are on potm, if the spawn rates are better then everyone has a dungeon crawl and the xp  system itself blocks the amount of given xp.

if im not mistaken soren did lower the spawn rates so this might be the effect of it someone cleared it and it takes to long to regrow.

The XP system has no hard cap. I know its capable, even on the current system, to grind out levels past 15+ in less then 2 weeks, even in full XP penalty.

Basically, I'm suggesting what you are, increase the spawn rates of dungeons, so they are more populated, more often, so theres better dungeoning for all. The rest of it is simply safe guards to prevent power leveling characters from repeatedly grinding dungeons for XP, given faster Respawns. Cause if they can do it in 2 weeks with slow spawns, we'd have people getting high, high levels in a week or even weekend, if dungeons were much more readily available.

[Kiess2606]

I completely understand what you are saying Rhymo. I just do not think what has been suggested in this thread would be a good idea. Some people may not have issues getting a group together but others do and I think doing this would cause that to be a problem for all of us. For instance, say I log on and would love to go to a dungeon so I get a few people together. What happens now when 2-3 of the people in my group have been to several other dungeons within the last two days? They won't get xp unless we can find a dungeon that none of us have done. I see people backing out of dungeons over the fact they won't get anything from it, therefore making it that much harder to even go to a dungeon.

[Silverfox]

or heres an idea.

ask soren to be nice and return the spawn rates to acomodate the amount of players that are on potm, if the spawn rates are better then everyone has a dungeon crawl and the xp  system itself blocks the amount of given xp.

if im not mistaken soren did lower the spawn rates so this might be the effect of it someone cleared it and it takes to long to regrow.

The XP system has no hard cap. I know its capable, even on the current system, to grind out levels past 15+ in less then 2 weeks, even in full XP penalty.

Basically, I'm suggesting what you are, increase the spawn rates of dungeons, so they are more populated, more often, so theres better dungeoning for all. The rest of it is simply safe guards to prevent power leveling characters from repeatedly grinding dungeons for XP, given faster Respawns. Cause if they can do it in 2 weeks with slow spawns, we'd have people getting high, high levels in a week or even weekend, if dungeons were much more readily available.

Level 15 in two weeks? Been at it for 3 and a half months and yet to get a character past Effective 12. The idea slaps the majority to try and punish a select few, far as I can tell, and I've never seen anyone pump that high so quickly.