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Author Topic: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting  (Read 4112 times)

queenofspades

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Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« on: August 08, 2013, 11:17:21 PM »
Whilst toying with a character concept, I began to wonder if it would be possible to change at least the high magic style shifter shapes like Minotaur, mind flyer, driver etc.... Mot of which are not common in ravenloft. To a dynamic wildshape system.

Carcerian has one on the vault

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Scripts.Detail&id=3453

And I also found this, it enables shifters to come from other backgrounds in line with more traditional rules.

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Hakpaks.Detail&id=7191

Any class with access to the polymorph self shape will work. Technically werewolves and fey'ri should also have access as they have shape changing ability.

Mostly however, I really would like to see both at least considered for inclusion in the next update.

I would suggest that the forms available be limited to animal, dire animal and magical beast (level 12+Druid) for Druid. And that forms for shifters be categorised in the table found on this site below.

http://dndtools.eu/classes/shifter/

Please not that if you do not own the sourcebooks for any content you view on dnd tools, you are encouraged strongly to buy it yourself.

Keeping in mind that forms only need be included for creatures that are in the modul as encounter able outside dm only spawns. And I would also suggest only one form per creature species. So no different forms for say different vampires or different reaver or such.
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queenofspades

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2013, 06:14:27 AM »
Bump
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Telkar

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2013, 07:19:15 AM »
Would be nice, but I'd not get my hopes up. This goes very low on their priority list, I'd think.

HellsPanda

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2013, 08:28:13 AM »
It is pretty far down, under alignment based summons. Which is like down there at the bottomn.....

queenofspades

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2013, 08:57:54 AM »
I get that, though the expanded class availibility seems like its easy enough to impliment, I'd atleast have some hopes for that.
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HellsPanda

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2013, 09:16:58 AM »
As I understood it from the Devs, the last few times this was brought up. It requires a rebuild of the class. But I might be wrong there

OITF

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2013, 11:05:17 AM »
That looks pretty sick, actually.

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Draxiss

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2013, 01:40:56 AM »
THIS. YES.

I've always been an advocate for this, and I think it would be pretty cool to implement it like the actual shifter. 'Course, along with that should come . . . Natural Spell and (Improved) Assume Supernatural Ability, if the default is mundane abilities.
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queenofspades

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2013, 04:25:47 AM »
The only reason I suggested this at all, was because of the Class writeup on this forums. that details all the special features and roleplay aspects of PRC's. And that lists shifters functioning as they did in PnP with forms progressing each level. But I'd also LOVE for the other basic NWN classes that should be able to take shifter, be able to.
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Exordium

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2013, 09:44:28 AM »
Would need quite bit of modifications and proper balancing. It's not really a quick one-weekend task to get it right. I understand how cool it'd be, having played a shifter (quite possibly the least rewarding class of those we have.. :P), but far as I'm aware, no developer currently is wanting to implement changes to the shifter PRC.

Telkar

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2013, 11:20:00 AM »
Having a shifter myself might actually push me into making such a system, but before I'd start, I'd want to make sure I have a plan as to how it should work that the staff finds acceptable. I remember Blue saying somewhere that if the class were changed, it would be like the Master of Many Forms from the PnP version. As far as I'm aware, the system suggested above is not like that. The MoMF can just change into whatever form of a creature type and size he has access to and doesn't need to memorize shapes he has seen.

Draxiss

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2013, 11:19:34 PM »
As far as I'm aware, the system suggested above is not like that. The MoMF can just change into whatever form of a creature type and size he has access to and doesn't need to memorize shapes he has seen.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. The Shifter/Master of Many forms must be familiar with the creature he decides to change into, he/she can't just change into a shark if he/she has never seen one before. This "familiarity" was never a well-defined concept in D&D, so Cacerian's System (which is what I assume you referring to) attempts to rectify that problem and diversify the options available to more than just a few set creatures.
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queenofspades

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2013, 12:11:51 AM »
As stated above, I think having to 'memorise' shapes from monsters, is likely going to be the only way to represent familiarisation. unless you can also allow them to use such on a book that describes various creatures. gaining the forms from those aswell..... but that would be hard to code I imagine. But you can hardly be familliar enough with a form to change into one from simply hearing about it, never having seen it.
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Sinful_Wishes

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2013, 12:23:14 AM »
As stated above, I think having to 'memorise' shapes from monsters, is likely going to be the only way to represent familiarisation. unless you can also allow them to use such on a book that describes various creatures. gaining the forms from those aswell..... but that would be hard to code I imagine. But you can hardly be familliar enough with a form to change into one from simply hearing about it, never having seen it.


If I were going to design this, theoretically, essentially what would have to be done is this:

~Script/write all of the polymorph shapes available via 2das/haks, however the server handles it.

~Balancing all of these

~Write an examine/variable system tied into the "examine" feat, everytime you examine a creature (that are viable polymorph shapes in the script) it adds it to your polymorph database.. might even get a message along the lines of "New polymorph form stored" or something.

~Write the dialog user interface or something, I'd guess you could use the self-only player feats as a mechanic to bring up the menu and select one of your stored forms and override your default shapeshifts/day.


In the end, you're adding a huge resource to one class on the server. I'd -love- to see this change, but its just far too more work that only a few people would ever get to use and the developers time could be spent elsewhere adding new things that a majority of people could enjoy at once. If you're trying to make shapeshifter what its suppose to be, you'll have to make a 2da polymorph form for each different shape.. and balance all of these.
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Smitehammer

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2013, 12:33:25 AM »
I would love to see a druid try to shift into an animal only known from an illustration in a book.














"Am I a lion?  I don't think of myself as a lion. You might as well though, I have a mighty roar."

*looks in book*



*wildshape*

Wouldn't the world be better off if we took nonsense more seriously?

Exordium

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2013, 05:32:16 AM »
I would love to see a druid try to shift into an animal only known from an illustration in a book.

Or, a rural druid who has never been to civilization, pulling off a shifting trick based on say, a painting!

"No, Althineala, that's not an animal, that's a friggin' shoebox. Bad girl, bad!"

Anyhow, personally I somewhat consider the DnD 3.5 druid Wild Shape overpowered. (I certainly don't the NWN's version) Thanks to Natural Spell, it behooves druids to pretty much stick to whatever form they can pull that has highest Strength, Con and Dex, and some of those are a little too strong. That wouldn't be wanted for Shifter to happen if the PRC was modified, so one would have to check over all the added forms and make sure they stay balanced; I don't think a buffed shifter should ever be equal, in straight melee, against a buffed fighter.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 05:37:08 AM by Exordium »

Telkar

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2013, 05:50:38 AM »
As far as I'm aware, the system suggested above is not like that. The MoMF can just change into whatever form of a creature type and size he has access to and doesn't need to memorize shapes he has seen.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. The Shifter/Master of Many forms must be familiar with the creature he decides to change into, he/she can't just change into a shark if he/she has never seen one before. This "familiarity" was never a well-defined concept in D&D, so Cacerian's System (which is what I assume you referring to) attempts to rectify that problem and diversify the options available to more than just a few set creatures.

That's an option, but for my shifter, I've opted for self-induced trance state and dreams bringing visions from the "spirit world" for familiarization. Seemed like a better option since all the available shapes are so far fetched in the setting. So that's an option too, but maybe the memorizing forms way is better were the class changed. I don't think it's a given to have it like that though. I haven't seen any rule about it in the rulebooks. The description of the class simply says you can turn into whatever creature of that type and size.

Telkar

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2013, 06:12:06 AM »
Or do some subtle changes over time. :) ...could start with implementing natural spell for example, for both druid and shifter shapes, and to be able to rest and everything in the current shape. Don't like always having to shift back to cast spells. It takes away from the feel of the shifter, who shouldn't be dependent on one shape.

Reigh

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Re: Discussion - Dynamic Wildshape or Shifting
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2013, 11:13:22 AM »
Or do some subtle changes over time. :) ...could start with implementing natural spell for example, for both druid and shifter shapes, and to be able to rest and everything in the current shape. Don't like always having to shift back to cast spells. It takes away from the feel of the shifter, who shouldn't be dependent on one shape.

I agree, if a succubus, will-o-wisp and an ogre can cast spells, my slaad shoud be able to=b